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Old Dec 31, 2012, 01:17 PM
Airplane crasher
CapMike's Avatar
USA, CT, Shelton
Joined Jan 2008
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Damon if you want I can go to the Archives on Thursday and see about getting correct blueprints for the 55. After all I know how you love to be scale and where better than from Sikorsky? I will also ask about whether they would be interested in a couple of the bodies. PM me what you would want for them
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 01:30 PM
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Jimbo45cn's Avatar
Southwest Florida
Joined Mar 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dag214 View Post
I found a very un-scale 3D online and started overlaying it on top of a picture I downloaded. As soon as I get all the Chaos/T-Rex parts drawn I will know how big to make the boom....

Rock on!!!!!!!
Damon
Damon,
The Chaos 600 is a good bird, I have had mine over a year now. But, and everyone's opinion is different, there is a world of difference between a 450 size CP heli and the 600. True they handle the wind a little better, but a smaller lighter , cheaper cp bird would be the place to start. I worked my way up (been a while so some of this may seem dated) from a Honeybee fixed pitch, to a 200 sized CP2, to a 450, and then around the same time I got my Eco 8, which is a bit bigger than a 500, (which I still fly btw) and then lastly I got the Chaos 600.
Just my opinion, but the whirling mass is a lot less on the 450, not to mention a lot less intimidating and cheaper. But, like I said, JUST MY OPINION. Jim
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Old Jan 01, 2013, 06:37 AM
It only takes one good idea
dag214's Avatar
Fishers, Indiana
Joined Oct 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo45cn View Post
Damon,
The Chaos 600 is a good bird, I have had mine over a year now. But, and everyone's opinion is different, there is a world of difference between a 450 size CP heli and the 600. True they handle the wind a little better, but a smaller lighter , cheaper cp bird would be the place to start. I worked my way up (been a while so some of this may seem dated) from a Honeybee fixed pitch, to a 200 sized CP2, to a 450, and then around the same time I got my Eco 8, which is a bit bigger than a 500, (which I still fly btw) and then lastly I got the Chaos 600.
Just my opinion, but the whirling mass is a lot less on the 450, not to mention a lot less intimidating and cheaper. But, like I said, JUST MY OPINION. Jim
Hi Jim,

While I agree with everything you say, and I hope I am not sounding arrogant here.... There was a huge difference between me spending a winter on the sim and my 120SR, but I took baby steps and mastered that in a week or so. In fact all the crashes (3) I have had where me showing off. I am blessed as I have just been a natural pilot my whole life. And lucky because of the many I have hung around with have shown and helped me with the little things that make up huge things. Last week when I flew the Raptor that had been converted to electric was very scary, but I did well. What I noticed was it hovered just like my 120SR, but coming out of forward flight back to a hover seemed to take forever to slow down, and there was a whole lot more going on with a CP than my FP. Plus, I am spending a day with who I think is one of the best scale heli guys in the world (Jim Spice) getting the 600 set up. Him and I have became great friends over the last 5 years working on my B-36. I have been told by everyone set-up is everything. Also both Jim and Alexander have shared huge things I need to know about scale set-up.

Sorry to be so wordy, but I will take it slow, but I have learned one funny thing about aviation. Fly what you intend to spend the most time in. I have taught over 200-300 people how to fly RC planes. Most started with trainers, but there second planes are always the hardest decision. If they are wanting to fly 100" Cubs, then I tell them to get one and lets ease into it. If its a 100" P-51, then I tell them to get a fast low wing plane and get use to higher wings loads. I have many that say they should fly 4-5 types before the P-51. Not true if the P-51 is not a lead sled.... What I am trying to say is, once I have mastered the technique of flying a bird, stepping up to bigger is just being careful and knowing my limits.

Now, I have had many buddies that have crashed a ton of birds, while they are great guys and friends, they will never make really good pilots as they just don't get enough stick time, or have the guts to trust themselves that they can become a better pilot. I fly something just about everyday, if I am not traveling. My sim, my 120SR in my house if its cold outside, my F4U if its sunny.

We shall see as I hide nothing here, but of all my heli pals that have seen me fly say to just get the 600 and have a blast.

And I do appreciate your opinion as all input is always welcomed here

Stay tuned to see if I am as good as I think I am, or if I am only a legend in my own mind

Have a great 2013

Thanks, Damon
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Old Jan 01, 2013, 07:04 AM
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Braunschweig, Germany
Joined Sep 2006
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Hi Damon

I have to second what you said

I stared RC-flying seven years ago with helicopters. First a Coaxial Lama then a CP Heli (very basic and small one (400 size) called Twister CP) that came with a basic radio. I spent three times the money of the twister in spare parts until I was able to fly a circle. I just crashed it too often. Since I did not fly in my youth I was a bl..dy beginner. Then I got a T-Rex 450 which I managed to fly eventually. Now I'm comfortable with my T-Rex 500 Huey.

I am not an aerobatic pilot at all. All I intended to do was always fly scale with a scale helicopter. I am doing pretty well now. Some in my club say that it is harder to fly a clean curve than to do the wildest figures where no one can distinguish what was intended and what not But anyway I cannot fly inverted with a helicopter. I cannot even fly a loop or a roll. But last season I managed to fly a landing approach with my T-Rex 500 Huey and land in one motion, that is not hovering before touch down. Man was I glad!

BTW I also built a Bell 47G based on an Eco 8 helicopter. I fly it from time to time but the Eco 8 is the worst platform you can get. You really have to fly forsighted like with every scale helicopter but wih this one in particular. This is something one has to learn. When you fly a scale helicopter you want to fly smoothe and with as little rpm on the rotor as possible. This means when you start a curve you pitch up early. In the end no one has an idea that you pitch up and down all the time to keep it level. It just has to look right. If you don't pitch up in advance, your helicopter (with little rpm and a lot expo) might even crash if you have too little altitude. You alway have to be way ahead of yout chopper when flying scale. This is probably a little different to flying planes (from my limited experience). Slowing down your chopper too apruptly may end in a desaster: it is most likely that you will be hit by your own downwash. That means you have no lift anymore and it may take a couple of feet to recover. I talked to a real helicopter (UH-1D) pilot and he confirmed that. Alway try to maintain a little forward speed until you gradually come to a stop.

Back to Damon: what I saw what you did with the 120SR whith as little experience you had really excited me. So easy, so safe. Damon. You can handle a 600 size helicopter with the approch you have. Just give yourself some time to practice. Don't worry.

Happy New Year for everyone.

Cheers Alexander
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Old Jan 01, 2013, 09:40 AM
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Southwest Florida
Joined Mar 2004
3,237 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dag214 View Post
Hi Jim,

While I agree with everything you say, and I hope I am not sounding arrogant here.... There was a huge difference between me spending a winter on the sim and my 120SR, but I took baby steps and mastered that in a week or so. In fact all the crashes (3) I have had where me showing off. I am blessed as I have just been a natural pilot my whole life. And lucky because of the many I have hung around with have shown and helped me with the little things that make up huge things. Last week when I flew the Raptor that had been converted to electric was very scary, but I did well. What I noticed was it hovered just like my 120SR, but coming out of forward flight back to a hover seemed to take forever to slow down, and there was a whole lot more going on with a CP than my FP. Plus, I am spending a day with who I think is one of the best scale heli guys in the world (Jim Spice) getting the 600 set up. Him and I have became great friends over the last 5 years working on my B-36. I have been told by everyone set-up is everything. Also both Jim and Alexander have shared huge things I need to know about scale set-up.

Sorry to be so wordy, but I will take it slow, but I have learned one funny thing about aviation. Fly what you intend to spend the most time in. I have taught over 200-300 people how to fly RC planes. Most started with trainers, but there second planes are always the hardest decision. If they are wanting to fly 100" Cubs, then I tell them to get one and lets ease into it. If its a 100" P-51, then I tell them to get a fast low wing plane and get use to higher wings loads. I have many that say they should fly 4-5 types before the P-51. Not true if the P-51 is not a lead sled.... What I am trying to say is, once I have mastered the technique of flying a bird, stepping up to bigger is just being careful and knowing my limits.

Now, I have had many buddies that have crashed a ton of birds, while they are great guys and friends, they will never make really good pilots as they just don't get enough stick time, or have the guts to trust themselves that they can become a better pilot. I fly something just about everyday, if I am not traveling. My sim, my 120SR in my house if its cold outside, my F4U if its sunny.

We shall see as I hide nothing here, but of all my heli pals that have seen me fly say to just get the 600 and have a blast.

And I do appreciate your opinion as all input is always welcomed here

Stay tuned to see if I am as good as I think I am, or if I am only a legend in my own mind

Have a great 2013

Thanks, Damon
Damon,
No problem, like I said just giving my opinion, and did not realize that you had already flown something as large as a converted Raptor. Your modelling and piloting skills are obviously way ahead of most(including me) and your explanation shows that you really do understand your limits and capabilities, I just was relating what I had been thru with helis, as I was (and hopefully still am) a pretty capable fixed wing pilot, but the helis were a whole new ball game. It took me a long time just to get past the beginners stage.
Anyways, Love watching your projects as they progress, and I just might make it to SEFF this year to see the 36. Can't wait to see how this new heli works out too. Happy New Year! Jim
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Old Jan 01, 2013, 10:30 AM
Airplane crasher
CapMike's Avatar
USA, CT, Shelton
Joined Jan 2008
2,713 Posts
A thought.

I am gaining interest in this little project and wanted to know what others thought about using a 550TT flybarless frame. I know there are ones that make a multi blade head and not having the extra mass of the flybars in flight would add to the realism and scale look of the Heli. Here is a link to what I was thinking about as far as the frame http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...opter_Kit.html
I know this uses a torque tube drive to the tail rotor, but think through bevel gears the rear rotor can be raised, and through bell cranks the rotor pitch can be done.
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Old Jan 01, 2013, 03:32 PM
It only takes one good idea
dag214's Avatar
Fishers, Indiana
Joined Oct 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapMike View Post
I am gaining interest in this little project and wanted to know what others thought about using a 550TT flybarless frame. I know there are ones that make a multi blade head and not having the extra mass of the flybars in flight would add to the realism and scale look of the Heli. Here is a link to what I was thinking about as far as the frame http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...opter_Kit.html
I know this uses a torque tube drive to the tail rotor, but think through bevel gears the rear rotor can be raised, and through bell cranks the rotor pitch can be done.
Don't know anything about heli's yet buddy. That is a way cool bird, and WOW what a price.....

Alexander e-mailed me this:
http://www.scaleflying.com/Torque-Tu...e-_p_2451.html

Very cool..........

Once I get scale drawings I will get the 3D drawn to scale station lines then we will know how to fit it all together.

Damon

The fuse on this will be about 1350mm or 53.25ish inches.
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Old Jan 01, 2013, 03:42 PM
unlicensed helicopter nut
zen@lanset.com's Avatar
Berkeley, California
Joined Jan 2007
3,699 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dag214 View Post
Alexander e-mailed me this:
http://www.scaleflying.com/Torque-Tu...e-_p_2451.html

Very cool..........
A fantastic piece of hardware, if the angle joint is quite rigid. Being able to have any angle and boom length you want is a huge advantage to the scale modeler.
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Old Jan 01, 2013, 03:43 PM
It only takes one good idea
dag214's Avatar
Fishers, Indiana
Joined Oct 2004
5,724 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo45cn View Post
Damon,
No problem, like I said just giving my opinion, and did not realize that you had already flown something as large as a converted Raptor. Your modelling and piloting skills are obviously way ahead of most(including me) and your explanation shows that you really do understand your limits and capabilities, I just was relating what I had been thru with helis, as I was (and hopefully still am) a pretty capable fixed wing pilot, but the helis were a whole new ball game. It took me a long time just to get past the beginners stage.
Anyways, Love watching your projects as they progress, and I just might make it to SEFF this year to see the 36. Can't wait to see how this new heli works out too. Happy New Year! Jim
Thanks Jim,
I am not sure I am way ahead of anyone, or just darn lucky. I have always felt I am a much better pilot than a builder. But my flying always comes with a way out. I know this sounds nuts, but when I first fly a new airframe I always think of way out, with the last step being intentionally crashing it for safety.

Once I was flying a twin for a buddy (B25) and it threw a prop so bad it shook the motor out of the mount and left the airframe. Needless to say it freaked us all out. The plane was now tail heavy and had huge drag and was under powered. It was a Royal kit I think.... Well I did every thing I could but it was all happening so fast that I took it away from the field and landed in the bean field. So it was beat up, but not destroyed. Most the guy at the field asked why I didn't try to get her back to the field, but one old fart, looked at the other guys and said " that would have been the stupidest thing you could do, do you want a plane to fix? or burn in the trashcan???" Truth is it all happened so fast I just wanted to get it down in one piece and away from people.....

Sorry for the wordy reply, but I am sure the day will come when my ego will get me behind the curve and some onlooker will say " Yep, he should have listened".

Have a great day

Damon
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Old Jan 01, 2013, 05:31 PM
It only takes one good idea
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Fishers, Indiana
Joined Oct 2004
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All that is left is the wheels......

DAG
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Old Jan 01, 2013, 05:38 PM
Airplane crasher
CapMike's Avatar
USA, CT, Shelton
Joined Jan 2008
2,713 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dag214 View Post
Don't know anything about heli's yet buddy. That is a way cool bird, and WOW what a price.....

Alexander e-mailed me this:
http://www.scaleflying.com/Torque-Tu...e-_p_2451.html

Very cool..........

Once I get scale drawings I will get the 3D drawn to scale station lines then we will know how to fit it all together.

Damon

The fuse on this will be about 1350mm or 53.25ish inches.
Damon I think the 550 might be about right. It is the same as a 600, and then finding the scale head for the right amount of blades and this could be a really cool looking bird at a meet. That link you sent was just what I was thinking. They also have the scale heads there as well.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 09:54 AM
Airplane crasher
CapMike's Avatar
USA, CT, Shelton
Joined Jan 2008
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A visit tomorrow

I made a promise to Damon that I will get the blueprints from Sikorsky tomorrow. I will be going here http://www.sikorskyarchives.com I will have about 3 hours to dig as much as I can to get accurate scale information as far as cross sections. Like Damon I love seeing something represented in accurate detail. Doing the clamshell nose would be great for battery loading. With luck I shall have some info for Damon tomorrow but at the latest they can have the scans digitized for me by Tuesday
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 10:05 AM
Scratch Builder
AlexanderB's Avatar
Braunschweig, Germany
Joined Sep 2006
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Thats great CapMike

Make sure you get drawings of the UH-19B which has a different (more spacious) tail.

Thank you for your effort also from me
Cheers Alexander
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 10:22 AM
Airplane crasher
CapMike's Avatar
USA, CT, Shelton
Joined Jan 2008
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Originally Posted by AlexanderB View Post
Thats great CapMike

Make sure you get drawings of the UH-19B which has a different (more spacious) tail.

Thank you for your effort also from me
Cheers Alexander
AlexanderB I have discussed that exact varient with Damon. The UH-19b/ S-55b /HH-19B had the tail boom lowered due to an increased tail rotor size. This is the one he asked me to get the blueprints for. With luck and a lot of digging in the file cabinets I should find everything we need for this.
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 12:54 PM
Airplane crasher
CapMike's Avatar
USA, CT, Shelton
Joined Jan 2008
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AlexanderB and all. I made the trip to the Archives today and was able to get a perfect 3View as well as a couple cross section drawings of the 55B. I am working on cleaning up the drawing now. When a old blue print is scanned and converted to a black and white drawing usually the fold lines become a speckled mess on the drawing. Before anything can be done these speckles have to be removed in order to get the drawing to show up perfectly in autocad.
After I get this done I will work on the 3D model for Damon. This is different than what I have drawn but will be loads of fun.
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