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Old Aug 02, 2012, 01:24 AM
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winfield Ia
Joined Jul 2009
313 Posts
Question
How do you teach?

I am going to start working on a plane with my nephew (he does not like ARF). Now he has helped me here and there with some planes, but nothing even close to this. We are going to build a P61 Black Widow with Ziroli. He wants to scratch build the entire ting, I am trying to convince him to at least get a short kit. But the real question is how do you teach a teenager how to have patience and attention to detail?
If anyone has ever worked with a young gun on building there first plane, you have any tips? Now I do have a trainer and some other planes for him to learn how to fly on and he flys great on real flight. Shaun
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Old Aug 02, 2012, 01:51 AM
Waiting for the paint to dry.
ctrout's Avatar
Pasadena Maryland
Joined Oct 2009
1,233 Posts
Get 2 P61s or something he likes just as much. I build with my kids and it will help them to do the same job but not the job I'm on. I just let him know hes doing ok for this attempt and help when he cant understand why something works better "this way" as you are changing glues or why its better to cut a part out if its a patern kit. Getting him to the table at the same time is the "not so good part" if your ready to go and he has no time.
If you try to build plane with his help it will keep him waiting , not good for my kids...
Good luck.
trout
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Old Aug 02, 2012, 01:54 AM
wood is good
loNslo's Avatar
United States, CA, Marina Del Rey
Joined Jun 2012
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Start with something so very simple that he will have the best chance of it coming out well and, that way, get immediate positive feedback.
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Old Aug 02, 2012, 04:00 AM
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Letchworth, Great Britain (UK)
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I certainly wouldn't start him on a P-61! Start with something simple, like a slab-sided trainer.
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Old Aug 02, 2012, 04:51 AM
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winfield Ia
Joined Jul 2009
313 Posts
I know. The P61 is what I would be timid to take on. He insists that he can do it, and is spending his own money (probably more than he thinks).
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Old Aug 02, 2012, 09:16 AM
Fueled by Arabica Beans
ChillPhatCat's Avatar
United States, NY, Syracuse
Joined Oct 2008
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All I know is that when I was 15, my planes weren't sanded all that well, there were wrinkles in my covering, things weren't always straight, but the planes flew. I have improved a lot in the last 17 years.

A scratch built Ziroli P-61 is probably going to take 200 hours to complete, maybe longer. The only thing I can see working to reason with the kid is to convince him to build a small semi-scale kit before going crazy on something huge. Does he realize that this is going to cost a cool $2500-$3000 to finish?

I hope that you can convince him to at least buy the cowls and the plastics.
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Old Aug 02, 2012, 10:27 AM
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LesUyeda's Avatar
San Diego, California
Joined Dec 2004
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"But the real question is how do you teach a teenager how to have patience and attention to detail?"


Been through three sons and a grandson, and to answer your question; you Don't. Two of the three sons and I were deep into scale, and did it fairly well, one of them and I still fly together. The other son and grandson could have cared less, and it never took. It is either there, or it isn't.

Les
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Old Aug 02, 2012, 01:56 PM
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I also teach building but I suggest a couple of types of planes and let the student pick from those, not pick his own. I know it would be the warbird or stunt plane right away.
I used to use the GP Super Sportster 60 then I started using the 4* 60 as the learning tool. The trainer has also been used but building usually comes after the solo and by the time they would get the kit finished the trainer in no longer needed.
I never allow a student to build a kit I know they will have problems with, something like a Ziroli anything. I'm a plans builder myself and have never taught anyone from plans. Too many little things pop up in a plans build.
Once a student has built a kit like the 4* I turn them loose on anything they want and I will help them out but if they were silly enough to jump off the Deep End with weights tied to there legs I will leave them on there own so they learn they have limitations.
You should have a few kits under your belt before you try building from plans and cutting your own kit and they should start out easy and progress. If they can't do that then they can do it on there own, I don't have the patience for stupid and if it is a plane I don't want or want to build it isn't going to happen in my shop. I may end up with it and I can't leave anything unfinished.
I have taught several people from a couple of 12 year olds to a couple of 80 year olds. I instruct but I don't have the patience to teach patience. You play with my rules or you don't play at all.
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Old Aug 02, 2012, 02:19 PM
wood is good
loNslo's Avatar
United States, CA, Marina Del Rey
Joined Jun 2012
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A problem with facilitating a build which is too difficult for the beginner is that it will likely never get finished. And the would-be builder gives up on the hobby, blaming himself and never having had the positive experience.
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Old Aug 02, 2012, 09:00 PM
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United States, MD, Elkton
Joined Oct 2011
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His money or not,a Trainer type will always be useful,and that's where he needs to start.....100 pieces in a kit build will tell you whether he has the patience to build a P-61.

Many is the day I get out the ancient Telemaster,because of our history together,rather than a 1000 hour scale whatsis.

I applaud his interest,and encourage him to complete it,but it still works better ,with first things first.
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Old Aug 02, 2012, 11:08 PM
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I think they are bringing up the learning curve. Post 10 is why it would have to be something I really want to build before it would ever come through the door to my shop. I have started kits ont there now that others have started and never finished. I give the ones I don't want to friends.
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 08:13 AM
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winfield Ia
Joined Jul 2009
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I have convinced him to do a "practice" run. I got him a kadet kit that I found for next to nothing. He is more than willing to put it together just to learn how to work with the wood, read the plans and why it is important to crawl before you run. Thank You all, Shaun
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddog170 View Post
I have convinced him to do a "practice" run. I got him a kadet kit that I found for next to nothing. He is more than willing to put it together just to learn how to work with the wood, read the plans and why it is important to crawl before you run. Thank You all, Shaun
Shaun, that is a fantastic kit to start with. During the build I always stress it is the builders plane and they can do with it what they want. I point out different mods they could do if so inclined. Let him do his own building and don't help him until he is completely stumped.
Has your Nephew a pilot yet with a lot of stick time??
My nephew started with the same kit then flew it until the covering fell off, serious, it really did finally start falling off. Then he built the Bridi Kaos 60 kit. After that he started flying giant scale and bought ARFs. As much as I don't like ARFs once you get into 35 and 40 percent planes they start making sense even to a crusty old fart like myself. 80 inches and smaller I feel should be built though?
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 12:11 PM
wood is good
loNslo's Avatar
United States, CA, Marina Del Rey
Joined Jun 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddog170 View Post
I have convinced him to do a "practice" run...
You have done your nephew a huge favor. And you did well finding a bargain.
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Old Aug 03, 2012, 03:31 PM
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winfield Ia
Joined Jul 2009
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Gray, he has really only sim time- no real flight time. The large arf's kinda have a place, especially with the fact that you can shop around and find them for just a little more than you would pay for a kit. But I still enjoy the build.
The deal I got was a stack of movies that I had for the kit.
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