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Old Jan 08, 2013, 10:34 PM
Argue for your limitations
ajbaker's Avatar
Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
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Originally Posted by maurof78 View Post
Would the Bixler 2 work ok with the stock SkySurfer/Bixler1 20A ESC, 2620-1900kv motor, and 6x4 prop? I have these laying around and am wondering if I can use them...
Thanks!
Yes. However, a 7x4 prop would be better.
AJ
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 04:19 AM
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Joined Mar 2011
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Originally Posted by datura View Post
I would go so far as to say the foam block is CRITICAL to the rigidity of the wing. As you'll soon find out, the more rigid the wing can be, the better this plane flies by any conceivable measure.

Many people opt to reinforce the carbon fiber by inserting a smaller rod inside. I just ordered some CF from this place: http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id=V641945 I hope to take Corporal B's tip and add some CF strips as well.

The other thing I did that really helped was to use thick wood screws instead of the weak screws that came with the plane. They really bite into the foam and tightened the wing up hugely.

Have Fun!

With regards to the whole stiffening of the plane, yes agreed the spar needs to be strengthened by replacing it with something stiffer or inserting a smaller spar into the original one in place, and if you can put the original inside an even bigger spar (6 or 7mm) and place that into the wing that would be a nice bonus too

I know taping the wing is something people do additionally, I thought about the concept of purchasing fiber tape and just taping the whole plane but instead I came across something in the EDF/glider forums which is so much better, a process called Glassing.

Glassing involves pretty much two products, Wbpu which stands for Water Based Polyurethane (purchased at your local hardware stores, ie rona / home depot / paint stores etc) and is kind of like epoxy resin used with carbon fiber often but the difference being wbpu is that it's water based, is easy to brush on and work with and also does not smell like epoxy resin does. This as well has the advantage of being lighter, as it contains water which evaporates while the product is drying so you can paint it on wet and it dries much thinner saving you weight.

second ingredient required is fiber glass cloth / fiber cloth of some sort. I've already placed an order for this stuff http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...tra_Thin_.html . There is an even thinner sheet they sell which is half the thickness but I figured Id get this one as it's thin enough I think and it'll add more strength being thicker, but not soo thick that it'll add a lot of weight.

The process is to rough up the foam using sandpaper for the product to have something to stick to then cut / lay the cloth over the plane, then paint it using wbpu with a paint brush and push the wbpu product throuth the cloth to the plane then when it sticks just move on to other parts of the cloth. Let it dry, then you put some light weight filler on (or you can use baby powder + wbpu mixed, or micro balloons + wbpu mixed as filler) which you sand off then you can paint it whatever color you want over on top.

supposedly adding one layer of this stuff increases the strength enough to do double the speed on on foamies which I think is pretty impressive. It also makes it tons more resistable to breaking foam during a crash but for whatever reason if it does break (would have to be a pretty good smack) it wont break in tons of bits of foam, it'll be a nice clean break without chunks of foam everywhere, and a nice clean break will mean much easier time fixing/glueing it back together. It's kind of like fiberglassing, just a smart way to save weight using wbpu, very easy to apply, and safe on foamies.

Hope this helps some of you guys that thought about resorting to taping the whole plane instead like I did at first.
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Last edited by paradoxstyle; Jan 09, 2013 at 03:34 PM.
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 12:00 PM
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Terry Rigden's Avatar
UK, Bedworth
Joined Apr 2004
2,580 Posts
Apologies if this has been asked before but with 120 pages its a lot to trawl through.
Is there a problem with the wing spar ?
I'm not planning to load the model up with FPV gear nor chuck it about. I'll just use it to teach someone to fly.

Are the supplied servos any good or should I swap them out straight away ? I really don't like radio failures.

Any other pitfalls to be aware of on this model ?

Thanks

Terry
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 02:15 PM
Mark
mlp666's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Moreton-in-Marsh
Joined Oct 2012
359 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxstyle View Post
With regards to the whole stiffening of the plane, yes agreed the spar needs to be strengthened by replacing it with something stiffer or inserting a smaller spar into the original one in place, and if you can putting the original inside an even bigger spar and putting that into the wing that would be a nice bonus too

I know taping the wing is something people do additionally, I thought about the concept of purchasing fiber tape and just taping the whole plane but instead I came across something in the EDF/glider forums which is so much better, a process called Glassing.

Glassing involves pretty much two products, Wbpu which stands for Water Based Polyurethane (purchased at your local hardware stores, ie rona / home depot / paint stores etc) and is kind of like epoxy resin used with carbon fiber often but the difference being wbpu is that it's water based, is easy to brush on and work with and also does not smell like epoxy resin does. This as well has the advantage of being lighter, as it contains water which evaporates while the product is drying so you can paint it on wet and it dries much thinner saving you weight.

second ingredient required is fiber glass cloth / fiber cloth of some sort. I've already placed an order for this stuff http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=10905 . There is an even thinner sheet they sell which is half the thickness but I figured Id get this one as it's thin enough I think and it'll add more strength being thicker, but not soo thick that it'll add a lot of weight.

The process is to rough up the foam using sandpaper for the product to have something to stick to then cut / lay the cloth over the plane, then paint it using wbpu with a paint brush and push the wbpu product throuth the cloth to the plane then when it sticks just move on to other parts of the cloth. Let it dry, then you put some light weight filler on (or you can use baby powder + wbpu mixed, or micro balloons + wbpu mixed as filler) which you sand off then you can paint it whatever color you want over on top.

supposedly adding one layer of this stuff increases the strength enough to do double the speed on on foamies which I think is pretty impressive. It also makes it tons more resistable to breaking foam during a crash but for whatever reason if it does break (would have to be a pretty good smack) it wont break in tons of bits of foam, it'll be a nice clean break without chunks of foam everywhere, and a nice clean break will mean much easier time fixing/glueing it back together. It's kind of like fiberglassing, just a smart way to save weight using wbpu, very easy to apply, and safe on foamies.

Hope this helps some of you guys that thought about resorting to taping the whole plane instead like I did at first.
Yes I have used the fine and the medium fiber cloth and wbpu (branded Ronseal water based varnish in the UK). It is very strong in tension say on the underside of a wing. The nice thing is it is still flexible enough not to crack (it will tend to crease the foam rather than let it break), it tends to deform and bounce back. I find using to layers of the fine set at 45 degrees to each other is stronger and less dimply than a single layer of medium.

Also the addition of a line of epoxy applied before the cloth at a week point and then varnished when the epoxy has set. This is good around cut outs from the fuselage.
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 02:21 PM
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datura's Avatar
United States, TX, Austin
Joined Dec 2012
319 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Rigden View Post
Apologies if this has been asked before but with 120 pages its a lot to trawl through.
Is there a problem with the wing spar ?
I'm not planning to load the model up with FPV gear nor chuck it about. I'll just use it to teach someone to fly.

Are the supplied servos any good or should I swap them out straight away ? I really don't like radio failures.

Any other pitfalls to be aware of on this model ?

Thanks

Terry
Hi Terry,

I have burned out one stock servo (right aileron) on my entirely stock setup. In my opinion, it flies great stock and you should be fine to fly it that way as well.

I also noticed that the aileron control surfaces only bend so far, and so maybe my servo burned out due to trying to push the aileron farther than it should go?


If I did it over again I would probably try to run the servo wires on the outside of the wing, to make replacement easier - unless I'm missing some easy way to pull a new servo wire through the channel in the wing?


The other pitfall is that the holes for the flaps servos are designed assuming that one servo will be a reversed type, or be using a servo reverser. So, many people end up cutting a new slot for a normal servo to fit in that is flipped in orientation, removing the need for a servo reverser.

Cheers,
Justin
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 02:29 PM
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Terry Rigden's Avatar
UK, Bedworth
Joined Apr 2004
2,580 Posts
Thanks Justin that's most helpful

Terry
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 02:49 PM
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Joined Mar 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Rigden View Post
Apologies if this has been asked before but with 120 pages its a lot to trawl through.
Is there a problem with the wing spar ?
I'm not planning to load the model up with FPV gear nor chuck it about. I'll just use it to teach someone to fly.

Are the supplied servos any good or should I swap them out straight away ? I really don't like radio failures.

Any other pitfalls to be aware of on this model ?

Thanks

Terry
It's much recommended to read hte 120 pages as it has tons of upgrades, feedbacks, and tips about this plane it really is worth reading over if you own one of these planes as it's too much information to cover everything in even a few posts. If not you, then whoever is buying should read this at some point I would say.

The stock wingspar is not the best but it's not the worste either. From what i've read it is better then hte previous bixer version spar but having a bigger wing surface area it might even things out a bit. Great starter plane but yes in an event of a medium impact crash this thing might break on you and pulling it out to fix it is not as feasible as simply stiffening it by putting another 2nd and 3rd spar inside (as most just do it) and/or even outside of it to stiffen it some more and prevent the break in the first place.

Your other worry as well is if you do full WOT or potentially diving down to get extra speed there might and probably will be flutter on the wings which after x amounts (id guess like 50-150) of flights on stock wings might actually cause the wings to fold/break off. This is more so the case if your running faster props , upgraded motors, extra weights etc.

Servo's arnt the best either but this same principle goes for 95% of the other RTF models on hobbyking as well. We've heard of the servos going after even light crashes on the occassional time, or just from flight times. Exactly frequency of occurance I dont know, you would have to read the whole forum again to get the picture of thoughts as I cant recall all the stories but I have read a few posts about that occuring. I have even read the occurance of them burning up just in flight after a larger amount of flights, exact frequency not sure about either. One thing you could do is remove the aileron servos currently in place and put them on the flaps (as flap servos arn't included with the kit), then purchase 2 reliable servo's for the ailerons then put them in place of the original servo's. hxt900's good for that as your probably already aware
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 02:57 PM
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Joined Mar 2011
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datura mind posting how many flights your stock servo lasted for? and what did you replace it with.

btw, curious if you set the max limits of rotation before binding on the stock servo using a programmable radio if it would have prevented your servo from burning out.
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Last edited by paradoxstyle; Jan 09, 2013 at 03:02 PM.
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlp666 View Post
Yes I have used the fine and the medium fiber cloth and wbpu (branded Ronseal water based varnish in the UK). It is very strong in tension say on the underside of a wing. The nice thing is it is still flexible enough not to crack (it will tend to crease the foam rather than let it break), it tends to deform and bounce back. I find using to layers of the fine set at 45 degrees to each other is stronger and less dimply than a single layer of medium.

Also the addition of a line of epoxy applied before the cloth at a week point and then varnished when the epoxy has set. This is good around cut outs from the fuselage.
Ahh missed your reply, and I noticed I had the wrong link in my original post which I just edited from your quotations. I actually meant to post the link of the 48g/m2 (Ultra Thin) and not the 18g/m2 (Super Thin).

Interesting though, you used two 18g/m2's with a 45 degrees placement of one over the other, this is good to remember. I was only planning to place one 48g/m2 over the entire plane and be done with it as I didnt want to do double layer of 48g/m2. I would imagine though that 2x18g/m2's would be heavier then one placement of 48g/m2 due to the extra WBPU which would probably weigh more then the cloth?

Thinking about your 45 degree placement, maybe i'll place 48g/m2 over the entire plane then place a second 18g/m2's degrees placement over only the high torsion areas of the plane. Hmm, decisions, decisions.. lol thanks for the tip though
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 04:15 PM
Mark
mlp666's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Moreton-in-Marsh
Joined Oct 2012
359 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxstyle View Post
Ahh missed your reply, and I noticed I had the wrong link in my original post which I just edited from your quotations. I actually meant to post the link of the 48g/m2 (Ultra Thin) and not the 18g/m2 (Super Thin).

Interesting though, you used two 18g/m2's with a 45 degrees placement of one over the other, this is good to remember. I was only planning to place one 48g/m2 over the entire plane and be done with it as I didnt want to do double layer of 48g/m2. I would imagine though that 2x18g/m2's would be heavier then one placement of 48g/m2 due to the extra WBPU which would probably weigh more then the cloth?

Thinking about your 45 degree placement, maybe i'll place 48g/m2 over the entire plane then place a second 18g/m2's degrees placement over only the high torsion areas of the plane. Hmm, decisions, decisions.. lol thanks for the tip though
I generally use 18g - the weight of WBPU is negligible. Most of the water evaporates, probably only leaving 10% of the wet weight, if that. I like to put a strip about 30-40mm wide along a seam to stop the joint popping and then put a second layer over that.

Covering both sides of 10mm cheep packing foam and when dry cutting into shapes to secure batteries and such like works nicely as the glass holds the foam together, yet it weighs naff all.
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 04:51 PM
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United States, TX, Austin
Joined Dec 2012
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Originally Posted by paradoxstyle View Post
datura mind posting how many flights your stock servo lasted for? and what did you replace it with.

btw, curious if you set the max limits of rotation before binding on the stock servo using a programmable radio if it would have prevented your servo from burning out.
I'm probably still under 10 flights on the Bixler.

I replaced it with one of these: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...cro_Servo.html

Which I now realize is probably not the most reliable servo ever made

Yes, I did NOT set the max and min on the servo and it's quite likely this would have been involved - especially given my penchant for barrel rolls

I will set it for next time and we'll see how long the other holds out!
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 09:13 PM
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Darwin Australia
Joined May 2002
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Finally after a six-week wait the wet season winds have arrived. Today at 11 AM at my local slope the winds were blowing directly onto the slope and were measured, using my wind speed meter, at 9-15 KPH. The slope itself is a cliff that is 27 feet high with 10-30 foot high trees growing along the top of the slope at distances that vary from right on the cliff edge to 100 foot back from the cliff edge. The cliff overlooks the sea and when the wet season northwesterly wind blow the lift is very reliable.

The landing area is on the beach at the base of the cliff, which means that I can only fly when the tide is out. Today the only minus was that at 11 AM the temperature was 85 degrees F.

Today I flew with the trailing edge of my Bixler 2 lowered by 5 degrees, as this is my thermal soaring trim. I as very pleased with the gliding performance of my Bixler 2 under these conditions. My maximum height gain above the cliff edge was 160 feet. My ground speed varied from 0 MPH when flying directly into the wing to 36 MPH when flying along the slope. This indicates that the wind speed at maximum height was stronger than on the ground.

One unusual occurrence was that I was joined by more than twenty hawkes of around one meter span. These birds were not aggressive but were curious; some of them approached to within 6 feet of the Bixler 2.

Ken
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 09:26 PM
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United States, FL, North Fort Myers
Joined Mar 2012
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Originally Posted by kensp View Post
Finally after a six week wait the wet season winds have arrived.Today at 11 AM at my local slope the winds were blowing directly onto the slope and were measured, using my wind speed meter, at 9-15 KPH. The slope itself is a cliff that is 27 feet high with 10-30 foot high trees growing along the top of the slope at distances that vary from right on the cliff edge to 100 foot back from the cliff edge.This cliff overlooks the sea and when the wet season north westerly wind blow the lift is very reliable.

The landing area is on the beach at the base of the cliff which means thati can can only fly when the tide is out.Today the only minus was that at 11 AM the tempreature was 85 degrees F.

Today I flew with the trailing edge of my Bixler 2 lowered by 5 degrees as this is my thermal soaring trim. I as very pleased with the gliding performance of my Bixler 2 under these conditions. My maximum height gain above the cliff edge was 160 feet. My ground speed varied fom 0 MPH when flying directly into the wing to 36 MPH when flying along the slope.This indicates that the wind speed at maximum height was stronger than on the ground.

One unusual ocurance was that I was joined by more than twenty hawkes.of around one meter span. These birds were not agressive but were curiou, some of them aproached to within 6 feet of the Bixler 2.

Ken
"life is either a grand adventure or it's nothing" - Helen Keller

At my club, in my opinion nobody trims a plane like a glider pilot. I've got my Bixler ll which will go vertical to wherever I need to be. But I need to show up on Saturday morning and just take my Bixler ll out of the truck, plop it on the ground . open my nine dollar fold up chair then lay my transmitter on the ground beside me and wait for them to invite me to fly.

When it comes of them, the glider pilots I kneel in the snow outside the Masters door. Three of them are over 90 years old, except for three other guys the rest are 85 years old. And they stand there looking straight up into the sky for a really long time. I Know that they experience "When the dancer becomes the dance"

DJ
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 03:14 AM
Argue for your limitations
ajbaker's Avatar
Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
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Plans for 2nd Bix2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sculptor View Post
"life is either a grand adventure or it's nothing" - Helen Keller

At my club, in my opinion nobody trims a plane like a glider pilot. I've got my Bixler ll which will go vertical to wherever I need to be. But I need to show up on Saturday morning and just take my Bixler ll out of the truck, plop it on the ground . open my nine dollar fold up chair then lay my transmitter on the ground beside me and wait for them to invite me to fly.

When it comes of them, the glider pilots I kneel in the snow outside the Masters door. Three of them are over 90 years old, except for three other guys the rest are 85 years old. And they stand there looking straight up into the sky for a really long time. I Know that they experience "When the dancer becomes the dance"

DJ
You must be the young "whipper - snapper" in that crowd.
On topic - I gave my first (stock) Bix2 to my son. he loves it. I just got a new kit and I plan to build it a bit light. I am going to have just ailerons and elevator (and motor of course). I guess I could have just made it RET. But, I started building it and I did not consider that. Oh well, It should still be fairly light anyhow. I am using a Turnigy 2826/10 (1400Kv) for now. I am going to mount the motor on a small plywood mount covering the hole where the stock mount goes. Also, that will facilitate the use of an 8" prop very easily (about 1/8" clearance over the fuselage). I guess I could still pull the aileron servos out at this point and just use a rudder servo. Maybe later. I am going to use a 1300mah LiPo. My plan is to get 15-25 minutes flight time with very careful throttle use and no thermals so I can find out what kind of time I can rely on. I will keep everyone posted. As the build goes, I will take pics of the major changes.
BTW-IMO, the stock spar is woefully weak for its wingspan. I am guessing that just one full up from a shallow dive would fold the wings. So, I put a 4mm CF tube and a 2mm tube inside the stock tube. That should do it up pretty well. Later, if I have problems at all, I will ream out the spar hole and put in an 8mm (or 10mm) spar in. I will let everyone know what is happening as the build happens. Right now, I just have the wing finished and there is nothing worthy of note in that construction (I buried the servo wires under the spar cover).
Have I missed 1 or two of your videos? If so, would you please provide me a link?
AJ
P.S. It sure is good to be back among the living.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 11:31 AM
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FYI if anyone is interested

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...1#post23782148
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