HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Dec 11, 2012, 05:14 PM
CURIOSITY Has Landed!
Fugitive_Bill's Avatar
Sydney, Australia
Joined Jul 2005
1,140 Posts
IFlyRCs,

I'll bet your not the only one who would like to off-load the V1's to pay for/upgrade to the V2's. I've got 3 that I'd to trade up to V2!

voltzmd's V1 were still in the mail when the V2 was released - now that gotta be annoying and I bet he's not the only one that happened to.
At least I'd already had mine for about a month before V2 came out.

However if noobee were to figure out way to (relatively easily) re-programme the V1 FW to do some of the ideas he discussed in post#823 above, that would be cool. Even if only to have the V1 setup so it could be turned on/off via the TX would be good enough for me.

What worries me about ordering a couple of V2's is no doubt as soon I do that, they'll go ahead and do something like release a V3 with accellometers in them, for just a few bucks more - arrghh!

I'll bet there tons of us who have bought things only find out the device you just ordered gets updated before you get the thing you bought in your door. Sometimes it's a bit like computers, they are out-of-date the moment you step foot out of the computer store.

-B!LL!

{End ramble!}
Fugitive_Bill is offline Find More Posts by Fugitive_Bill
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Dec 11, 2012, 10:13 PM
Registered User
Joined Dec 2006
1,435 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Rigden View Post
Some good ideas there well done

Not so keen on the VR knob controlling direction, I prefer to set that in hardware
Stick dynamic gain and oscillation detection both brilliant ideas.

Oh and please make it simple to do the GUI looks like the way to go , I can't seem to do entering long strings of code correctly


Regards

Terry
thanks for the feedback!

i'm still reading the datasheets, but i think we would need a 3,3v usbasp or isp programmer to reflash the device. i believe i can erase the device (even with the LB bits cleared) but will only try it on my orx-stab once i'm further along in the development.

i'm also hoping not require a GUI, since that would also need an ftdi usb-to-serial converter (also operating at 3.3v).

the alternative is to configure via waggling (max-min-max) the aux_in channel during the first n seconds, then using the sticks to set the various modes. feedback can be through the LED or waggling the control surfaces.

so, if given a choice between
- gui only but need a serial converter, or
- stick only but more limited options,
which would people prefer?
noobee is offline Find More Posts by noobee
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 11, 2012, 10:34 PM
Registered User
Portugal, Lisboa, Cascais
Joined Sep 2012
233 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by noobee View Post
thanks for the feedback!


so, if given a choice between
- gui only but need a serial converter, or
- stick only but more limited options,
which would people prefer?
I believe that due to the availability of the USB ASP devices (even HK sells them) and the easily accessible pins on the v1 the gui option would be better.

It would be interesting to get a dump of the actual programming on the v1 and the minimal alteration would be to have an option to get the ailerons output reversed, so that it didn't require an extra servo reverse unit.

just my 2c

I still have to learn some Atmel

brgds

luis
lvale is offline Find More Posts by lvale
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 2012, 12:37 AM
If it has wings it will fly...
ckleanth's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Birmingham
Joined Mar 2011
1,076 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by noobee View Post
i've started writing an implementation of a flight stabilizer (currently using an arduino 328p with an mpu6050) and plan to port it to the orx-stab v1 (168pa with an itg3205).

here's what i know about the v1 so far..

1. chip is atmega168pa (so need to update avrdude.conf since the chip signatures are different)
ATmega168A 0x1E 0x94 0x06
ATmega168PA 0x1E 0x94 0x0B

2. pinout mapping on the v1:


3. i've connected an ISP cable to it and read the fuse/lock bits
lo=0xf7
hi=0xdf
ext=0xf9
lock=0xfc (urgh... LB2 = LB1 = 0, does that mean i need to erase the chip via HV programming?)
cal=0xffffff95

here are the changes i'm considering, would like some feedback if this makes sense:
- replace AILL with AUX_GAIN for master gain (should connect to a TX knob).
- enable stick dynamic gain, similar to angle mode on multiwii (gain drops as you move the stick further from center position).
- enable stick rate-of-rotation, stick controls the expected rate of rotation so that the stabilizer does not try to fight your control by always trying correct towards "zero rate". stick dynamic gain may make this one unnecessary.
- oscillation detection. this one is interesting. i think it is possible to detect oscillations with zero-stick input and reduce the channel PID parameters.
- settable neutral stick position after trimming (maybe drop this).
- vr knob controls both gain AND direction (so don't need the DIP switches).
- support wing and vtail (using the now freed up DIP switches).
- processing gui (this one seems hard on the 168pa based on the amount of memory i've used on the 328p already).
- any other suggestions? (there is no accelerometer on the v1 or v2 so no 3d hold, wing leveling, etc )

i'm quite new to arduino and processing and am looking for notes on burning the arduino bootloader to the v1 device and resetting the lock bits. the v2 is likely to be similar except that the ISP port pins are probably used for more switch IO.
pm sent
ckleanth is offline Find More Posts by ckleanth
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 2012, 01:18 AM
CURIOSITY Has Landed!
Fugitive_Bill's Avatar
Sydney, Australia
Joined Jul 2005
1,140 Posts
Hi ckleanth,

I don't want a smart a.. - But simply entering 'pm sent' into the thread achieves almost nothing?
noobee will get the PM regardless.

The thing is, due the topic of the current discussion and what you quoted, you have me interested (and possibly others) in what you have to say!!

Or is it seriously a private and confidential matter!?

-B!LL!
Fugitive_Bill is offline Find More Posts by Fugitive_Bill
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 2012, 03:18 AM
If it has wings it will fly...
ckleanth's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Birmingham
Joined Mar 2011
1,076 Posts
its simple really. noobee is a bit ahead so I asked for some info to catch up so I can contribute.
what's suprising is that although the board was out for some time and apparently theres quite a lot of interest none has done anything with it. as result the new board has more functionality but they got rid of the programming interface. personally I wanted 4 inputs and 4 outputs & switching it on or off remotely would be a bonus but with the v1 you need more pins anyway. if one talks about modding the board then perhaps its easier to buy a kk2 instead but since I've got a few of these v1 I was thinking what I do with them.
ckleanth is offline Find More Posts by ckleanth
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 2012, 08:24 AM
Bruno, GOOD DOG
A Rdnek's Avatar
United States, IA, Grinnell
Joined Aug 2007
4,008 Posts
I am so glad to see some of you fellows working on this stuff. "Stuff' is about as technical as I get. I watch this with great interest. As the v1 has access ports and v2 doesn't, could that eventually make the v1 more desirable than v2 ?
Rn
A Rdnek is online now Find More Posts by A Rdnek
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 2012, 08:32 AM
Registered User
Joined Dec 2006
1,435 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvale View Post
I believe that due to the availability of the USB ASP devices (even HK sells them) and the easily accessible pins on the v1 the gui option would be better.

It would be interesting to get a dump of the actual programming on the v1 and the minimal alteration would be to have an option to get the ailerons output reversed, so that it didn't require an extra servo reverse unit.

just my 2c

I still have to learn some Atmel

brgds

luis
for programming the v1, i think we'll need a usbasp that can operate with 3.3v devices. i removed a resistor from mine (from ebay) to set to 3.3v operation (some others use a jumper).

to use the GUI, you'll need the serial convertor and connector. for v1, it looks like the serial port is well exposed on the board itself. but, getting to it means removing the case, so not so convenient. you'd also need a serial convertor that works at 3.3v, most ftdi based usb-serial convertors can do that (sparkfun, for example). usually means breaking a trace and bridging another set of pads to change the operating voltage. hence, it's not clear if the GUI via serial would be that easy to adopt.

for v2, the ISP pins are probably scattered around so i'm not sure how they are arranged. also, it's unclear they still expose the serial port signals. perhaps some one can post a picture of the front and back sides.

finally, i believe the lock bits (LB1 and LB2) are programmed such that there is no way to read and modify the flash memory, the only option is to erase it to the blank state and then reprogram from there. i hope to program it to be arduino compatible first and am looking for pointers on that..
noobee is offline Find More Posts by noobee
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 2012, 08:40 AM
Registered User
Joined Dec 2006
1,435 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Rdnek View Post
I am so glad to see some of you fellows working on this stuff. "Stuff' is about as technical as I get. I watch this with great interest. As the v1 has access ports and v2 doesn't, could that eventually make the v1 more desirable than v2 ?
Rn
i think it depends on how the ISP pins are exposed. there are other rcgroup threads on reprogramming atmel-based ESCs. in some cases, the pads are exposed in a row. in some cases, people solder directly to the processor pins (probably too hard).

the other issue about the V2 is if HK exposed the serial port signals. without it, using the GUI via the serial link would probably not be possible.

both v1 (and probably v2) devices run at 3.3v, so we also need to adapt the USBASP and FTDI serial to the correct voltages. mine seem to work fine and i was able to read the fuse/lock bits from the v1. didn't want to venture more until i am further along with the development..
noobee is offline Find More Posts by noobee
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 2012, 09:28 AM
Registered User
Terry Rigden's Avatar
UK, Bedworth
Joined Apr 2004
2,539 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by noobee View Post

so, if given a choice between
- gui only but need a serial converter, or
- stick only but more limited options,
which would people prefer?
I would like to keep it simple so if I've got to make a serial converter then I probably wouldnt bother so programming with the stick seems best to me. But I'm very new to this

Terry
Terry Rigden is offline Find More Posts by Terry Rigden
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 2012, 12:18 PM
Registered User
Portugal, Lisboa, Cascais
Joined Sep 2012
233 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by noobee View Post
for programming the v1, i think we'll need a usbasp that can operate with 3.3v devices. i removed a resistor from mine (from ebay) to set to 3.3v operation (some others use a jumper).

to use the GUI, you'll need the serial convertor and connector. for v1, it looks like the serial port is well exposed on the board itself. but, getting to it means removing the case, so not so convenient. you'd also need a serial convertor that works at 3.3v, most ftdi based usb-serial convertors can do that (sparkfun, for example). usually means breaking a trace and bridging another set of pads to change the operating voltage. hence, it's not clear if the GUI via serial would be that easy to adopt.

for v2, the ISP pins are probably scattered around so i'm not sure how they are arranged. also, it's unclear they still expose the serial port signals. perhaps some one can post a picture of the front and back sides.

finally, i believe the lock bits (LB1 and LB2) are programmed such that there is no way to read and modify the flash memory, the only option is to erase it to the blank state and then reprogram from there. i hope to program it to be arduino compatible first and am looking for pointers on that..
I was refering to this

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...occessors.html

on this one can remove the jumper J1 and use the stabiliser self powered thus eliminating all possible power issues

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...2X365809X5.pdf
lvale is offline Find More Posts by lvale
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 2012, 12:19 PM
Registered User
Portugal, Lisboa, Cascais
Joined Sep 2012
233 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Rigden View Post
I would like to keep it simple so if I've got to make a serial converter then I probably wouldnt bother so programming with the stick seems best to me. But I'm very new to this

Terry
It should be very easy to have a PC/Mac connection with this

lvale is offline Find More Posts by lvale
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 13, 2012, 12:31 AM
An Aussie in Chicago
Joined Apr 2012
1,248 Posts
I was showing the capabilities of V1 to the guys at the field in one of their planes. It was fairly windy especially across the runway as we get a lot of turbulence with a southerly breeze.

Did 1 flight to trim the plane and landed to fine tune V1 and did a few hands off landing except for throttle control. I had to do a slight adjustment on roll every 5 to 10 seconds on approach but the plane essentially landed itself. Most of the guys were really impressed and I left the unit in the plane for the guy to keep.

This was 2 days after showing the guys the use of autopilot to return aircraft to launch site if they loose site of the plane. Some of the guys have fairly bad eye site and loose their planes in the corn fields for a few months until harvest time.

At our field we have a lot of old guys flying and some will not fly anymore due to age etc. So I have been trying to convince them to use something like this which will allow them to continue to fly and have a good time. Some still think it
preferable to not fly than "cheat" by using electronics to help them. Seems strange, even one of the old instructors got pissed and left in dicuss. Say it's ot real flying. Some of the guys have been trying to fly for the last 3 years and still have trouble. Hopefully this will help him get the hang of flying a little quicker.
hendrnk is offline Find More Posts by hendrnk
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 13, 2012, 01:09 PM
Registered User
Vancouver, BC
Joined Aug 2009
1,958 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by hendrnk View Post
Seems strange, even one of the old instructors got pissed and left in dicuss. Say it's ot real flying.
The reason I'm in this hobby is to relax and have fun. Maybe even learn something on occasion, and satisfy my occasional need to tinker.

I don't understand the perspective of folks that think it should be hard/nerve-wracking.
Firehawk989 is offline Find More Posts by Firehawk989
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 13, 2012, 03:09 PM
Segelfliegen bedeutet Freiheit
SkyCadet's Avatar
Canada, MB, Winnipeg
Joined May 2010
1,081 Posts
I agree with you, unfortunately some older flyers just feel that if they don't do it without help, then its not flying. Guess they should throw their canes away too! LOL!

Seriously, these gyro devices are designed to assist in flying in ways that are too fast changing for the average pilot to see (since they are a distance usually from the plane when flying). Even Heli pilots have been flying for years with gyros to assist in optimizing the tail rotor position and so on!

Being able to take a lighter model and fly it in windier conditions, or during FPV, is great - even commercial and military pilots now have electronic assistance to allow them to work on other tasks during flight. Maybe remind the codgers of that!

The skill is still with the pilot - its HOW we use the tools, and develop the flying skills that is important, and we just have to remember not to become too dependant on them - that's why I like the V2 - it can be turned on WHEN you need it.

It must be a bit daunting not being able to do what one used to, I feel for them. They say a pilot (RC or Scale) begins their carrers with a lot of luck and little experience, and by the time they hang up their wings, the luck usually runs low, but they now have the experience to lean on.

SkyCadet
SkyCadet is offline Find More Posts by SkyCadet
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Flying with the WHAM group!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion 3 axis stabilizer by HK Early Electric Plane Talk 17 Nov 18, 2012 02:11 PM
New Product OrangeRX 3-Axis Flight Stabilizer 14g (advertised) nemoskull Scratchbuilt Indoor and Micro Models 7 Sep 21, 2012 09:50 PM
Discussion Eagle A3 Aeroplane Fixed-wing Micro Flight Controller Board W/ MEMS 3-axis gyro eyeinsky1 Aerial Photography 3 Jun 06, 2012 03:38 PM
Sold CPD-4 Co-Pilot 2 axis flight stabilization system ecampos FPV Equipment (FS/W) 6 Oct 26, 2011 01:34 PM
Discussion ******* 3 axis gyro stabilized video gimbal powerblimp Aerial Photography 10 Feb 23, 2006 06:00 AM