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Old Nov 12, 2012, 01:41 PM
CURIOSITY Has Landed!
Fugitive_Bill's Avatar
Sydney, Australia
Joined Jul 2005
1,161 Posts
I can't help but say it again, 'I can't wait' for a V2 that can turned on/off via the TX gyro switch and even better being able to dial the amount 'correction' by one of the pots on the 9X TX.

At the moment I only have one of these gyro's but as soon as an updated version comes out, I'll be buying half a dozen for sure, as long as the price does not jump up too much.

-B!
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 02:50 PM
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Terry Rigden's Avatar
UK, Bedworth
Joined Apr 2004
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One snag I can see with remotely turning it on and off is if you reverse a channel on the gyro you have to reverse it on the Tx as well that would be tricky.

Mines all installed in my Easy star ready for testing when the weather improves. Starting with the gains turned down so the control surfaces barely move when the model is rotated and I'll work up from there.

Terry
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 02:54 PM
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United States, MA, Boston
Joined Oct 2010
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I think the reversal on the unit only dictates the direction in which it corrects, not the direction of the input from the controller, so I don't think that would be a conflict. Even it if was, the "disable" would only disable it from correcting, not from putting the signal from the Rx through.

I do think an in-flight on/of option would be great, or even dual rates.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 06:20 PM
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flypaper 2's Avatar
Kingston, Canada
Joined Jun 2004
12,896 Posts
I moved the CG much further back on the Zoombi with the gyro in control. No problems, works great. What happens when I shut the gyro off with the CG so far back ?? No thanks!

Gord.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 07:19 PM
Segelfliegen bedeutet Freiheit
SkyCadet's Avatar
Canada, MB, Winnipeg
Joined May 2010
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Video of Super Decathlon BL on Skis with ORX - landing

Here's the FULL video of my Super Dec BL (3ch) plane on skis with an ORX3AS running near 2:00 position on pitch/roll. I corrected some errors that affected resolution from the iPhone4s my friend used to shoot this. I think he forgot to run in 1080p mode, as this is 640x480... argh! Hopefully, you can see how stable the plane is on landing approches with the ORX system enguaged. It just "slots" into tthe groove when coming in. Really nicely. Very easy to hold profile for landing. The hardest thing I find now is that the plane still wants to keep aloft even on 25% throttle!!! It's easy to overshoot a bit.

Unfortunately, some of my BEST Touch n Go's yesterday were not captured on video - I'll try to get some better stuff soon...

Enjoy...

SuperDecBLSkisFULL1 (3 min 46 sec)


SkyCadet
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Last edited by SkyCadet; Nov 13, 2012 at 10:40 AM.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 10:25 AM
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Terry Rigden's Avatar
UK, Bedworth
Joined Apr 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nfsiv View Post
I think the reversal on the unit only dictates the direction in which it corrects, not the direction of the input from the controller, so I don't think that would be a conflict. Even it if was, the "disable" would only disable it from correcting, not from putting the signal from the Rx through.

I do think an in-flight on/of option would be great, or even dual rates.
This what happened when I was setting mine up

The rudder horn is on the right hand side of teh model and the servo is inverted with the horn on the outside. When initially set up without the gyro the rudder channel was reversed to get the correct direction.

On installing the gyro with the plugs uppermost and to the rear the rudder correction was the wrong way. To correct this I had to reverse the direction on the gyro to my surprise this made the servo go the wrong way with stick input so I had to reverse the direction on teh transmitter. Once that was done I had correct response to both stick movement and gyro correction.

So if we want to turn it on and off then we really want dual rate where we set one rate really low say 1% and the other at the required rate for flight.

Terry
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 10:52 AM
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Terry Rigden's Avatar
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I just got back from flight testing my stabiliser in an Easy Star, the weather was calm so it didnt have much to do. As recommended I started with the gains turned right down and surprise surprise didn't see any effect . So I turned the gain up bit by bit each flight till things started to go wrong

To test the response I deliberately stalled the model then left it hands off to see how it recovered.
Without the stabiliser it takes two further stalls to recover into stable flight
As I increased the gain nothing changed at first then it took 3 stalls to recover so I stopped increasing the gain. Then I put it into a sharp turn without compensating with the elevator and it dived on all occasions. I was taking aerial video through all this and the normal flight portions seemed no better than without the stabiliser.

So I'm waiting for a windy day and will try again but so far I'm NOT impressed.
All its done is worsen the stall recovery

Terry
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 11:19 AM
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SkyCadet's Avatar
Canada, MB, Winnipeg
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Settings...

Terry,
I'm surprised by your results!

My Decathlon would stall, then recover, and porpoise perhaps 2-3x (without addtional stick input) before settling in - I'm talking a DEEP stall here, before the ORX3AS.

Now, I can stall, and it settles into the "slot" within 1x without stalling again per say - maybe a shallow one, but BARELY - my settings are around the 2:00 position on both roll and pitch (3ch plane).

The fine settings are a bit tricky to get right with these units. I wish they'd have made the pots more linear. However, I'd start at 2:00 or so and adjust up/down in VERY small amounts around this point. You should be able to find a tuning range for the compensation to allow reasonable correction. The biggest effects will show on flying in moderate wind, but tuning is best initially in calmer conditions to evaluate the effects of the ORX 3AS on the plane.

SkyCadet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Rigden View Post
I just got back from flight testing my stabiliser in an Easy Star, the weather was calm so it didnt have much to do. As recommended I started with the gains turned right down and surprise surprise didn't see any effect .
So I turned the gain up bit by bit each flight till things started to go wrong

To test the response I deliberately stalled the model then left it hands off to see how it recovered.
Without the stabiliser it takes two further stalls to recover into stable flight
As I increased the gain nothing changed at first then it took 3 stalls to recover so I stopped increasing the gain. Then I put it into a sharp turn without compensating with the elevator and it dived on all occasions. I was taking aerial video through all this and the normal flight portions seemed no better than without the stabiliser.

So I'm waiting for a windy day and will try again but so far I'm NOT impressed.
All its done is worsen the stall recovery

Terry
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 11:21 AM
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SkyCadet's Avatar
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Dead band?

I was thinking about Terry's comments. I wonder if some who have issues getting the gains and performance just right have too much dead band in the servos or slop. That will certainly affect the performance of the stabilizer overall.

Just something to consider when setting these up...

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Old Nov 14, 2012, 11:36 AM
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Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
Joined Aug 2010
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Terry,

Here's my take on your stall-recovery testing:


That's not what this $15 unit is designed for.

It's not an autopilot, or a heading-hold gyro.

It's a basic 3-axis stabilizer. That means it helps counteract input that isn't from you, the pilot.

Primarily wind. If the wind causes some roll, pitch or yaw, this will compensate in the opposing direction. (How much compensation depends on how high you set the gain.)

But that's just a damping effect. It reduces your workload in dealing with the wind....but it isn't intended to fly the plane for you, or rescue you from stalls, etc.

That would require a deviced that's substantially more expensive and sophisticated......and many guys don't want that kind of gyro-control in the first place.

If that is what you're looking for, check out the Guardian.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1596644

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Last edited by pugsam; Nov 14, 2012 at 12:35 PM. Reason: changed "dampening" to "damping" - which is the correct word!
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 12:11 PM
CURIOSITY Has Landed!
Fugitive_Bill's Avatar
Sydney, Australia
Joined Jul 2005
1,161 Posts
Well put Pugsam. I agree and you are exactly right.
-B!
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 12:54 PM
Has Sloped Off
dav3uk's Avatar
Uk South Wales
Joined Aug 2009
2,306 Posts
as a simple rate gyro it reacts to movement by sending a correction to the surface.

In a stall situation this has a sort of negative effect, I will explain.

At the point of a stall the nose drops now we all know what to do get the stick forward and get some speed, however the gyro senses nose down and applies...........up elevator, exactly the wrong thing to do, so it may even deepen the stall by trying to keep up elevator applied.

This simple unit will even fight the pilots inputs at higher gain settings.

As for diving in the turns it is trying to keep the plane at the last attitude it was at so say you bank into a turn it will try to keep it in the bank, now if you plane will fly knife edge it may be able to keep at that angle but most planes will fall out of it into a dive...........

Its not a fault as such just a limitation on these super cheap units.

A little bit of practice with the unit on will let you get used to how it behaves.........it can feel real weird at times, so weird that I have stopped using these units on most of my planes.

As an aid to get a stable camera platform, FPV etc they can work great.

Keep at it, be aware of their limitations and they may turn out to be of some use to you, you may however be like me and dislike the detached feeling you get.

Dave
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 02:54 PM
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Joined Aug 2009
86 Posts
How do these stabilizers affect a long rollout in an ROG takeoff with a taildragger?
Does it try to keep the tail down on the ground, until the pilot gives some elevator (down) input? If so, that seems to be a bit squirrely, and dangerous. Or am I all wrong?
Is there any video of an ROG takeoff with a taildragger, and this stabilizer?
Thank you for your time.
Ed
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 03:04 PM
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Terry Rigden's Avatar
UK, Bedworth
Joined Apr 2004
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Gents

Thanks for the comments. My use for this gizmo is to try and provide a more stable platform for aerial videos. The stall and turn tests were to see how the unit would react to perturbations in pitch and yaw. I'm not expecting the gyro to fly the plane for me or to correct stalls or poorly coordinated turns. I did those to see how the gyro affected handling and took a degradation in pitch stability ie stall recovery as an indication that the gains were getting too much.
The weather was almost flat calm so there want much turbulence but what little there was the gyro didn't damp out. The model is rudder elevator only and I'm using the pitch and yaw axies only. But I notice that turbulence tends to cause a wing to drop so I'm wondering whether I would be better using roll and pitch and connecting the roll axis to the rudder servo.

Regarding dead band it seems that with the gyro the servos move in bigger steps and move more slowly

Regards

Terry
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 03:33 PM
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Rich in ILM's Avatar
USA, NC, Wilmington
Joined Sep 2010
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I have had the unit on a clone Gee Bee for quite some time so let me try to simplify. Face the connectors forward to the line of flight and hook up the unit. It's less complicated if you use a Y connector for the ailerons. Set the pots at 1:00 o'clock move the plane in a roll motion (propeller off) and make each aileron moves in the direction of the roll (up for the up side and down for the down side) same for the rudder and elevator. The control surface should move in the same direction of the plane which damps the planes motion. Reverse any channel that is needed but there shouldn't be any needed. Fly the plane and increase the pots to 2 o'clock slowly. If there is no wind wait to draw any conclusions until you have had some 10 Mph stuff. With a steady wind mine would hover land without much effort. This unit doesn't need a lot of analysis. It's a $15.00 unit that increases stability in the wind. Just get out and fly it. There isn't a lot of risk if you check the damping direction and increase the pots slowly. It takes longer to describe than do. And you need wind to appreciate it.
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