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Old Aug 31, 2012, 04:17 PM
AMA#313760
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Did a Test Flight on this aircraft today, 17 to 20 MPH winds.

Outside of no rudders its a nice aircraft.

John

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdYDw...2&feature=plcp
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Old Aug 31, 2012, 05:06 PM
Avionics tech
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Very nice. I will try mine tomorrow.
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Old Aug 31, 2012, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterVRC View Post
Oh, and I now need 8 channels to run everything. So I have to change the RX.....
what happened to the 3ch durafly vampire...lol
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Old Sep 06, 2012, 01:46 AM
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I decided to go to 4 servo's for the flaps.

By using these control horns, I can synchronise all 4 travel ranges and ratios to be accurate across them all.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...mm_5sets_.html

I will change to non-metal gear servos, as 9g should do one flap each fine. Thus the total extra weight for 4 servos, versus 2x 14g MG's, is only 10g more.
The pairs of servos will be Y-joint soldered together. So I will do that tonight and finally get the flaps fully completed.

The nose gear is close to done, but I don't have a metal trunion retract yet (any day now) to complete that fully.

Then the rudders..... I decided I do definitely want those. I am still leaning towards a single servo in the tailplane to do that. It is just much easier to do it that way, and rudders are more like 'low demands' as far as loads and accuracies go.
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Old Sep 06, 2012, 11:36 AM
lud
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterVRC View Post
Another issue is that the wings change dihedral at the boom,
Four servos is not viable. I would need to run all 4 on their own channels!! LOL
I can actually do that (I have 16channels) but it is a BIG WASTE of effort, hehe.

But for the moment I will leave it with just the inboard ones (outbooard taped up), so I can keep flying it for a bit longer first!
needs must where the devil drives huh ....

guess it is viable afterall
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Old Sep 06, 2012, 05:55 PM
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I don't want 4 flaps (or any surfaces) that don't move in perfect unison with each other (range and during travels), which mechanics alone, in these small models, can never ahcieve. Thus every surface needs its own servo.
I shouldn't have said 'not viable'.... using 4 means more weight, more cost, more cutting etc. So 'viable' in terms of cost in dollars and time, when a single servo for each pair is 'more viable'. LOL.
I should have said 'less viable'.... hehe
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Old Sep 07, 2012, 08:51 AM
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I have re-planned, installed, and almost completed the quad servo flaps system. Plus the Retracts main gear completion.
The first two retracts pics still show the prior single MG servo driving both flaps. That was just impossible to get working rigidly and accurately.

The flaps can be adjusted in travel range and speeds of course. I will probably go for a bit more angle at full flaps. With only the inboard flaps I went to 80deg area, but these are a bit less for now. The main reason to go for a severe angle is to prevent lift and mainly get air-braking from them. It will still give lift, but less than say 60deg would give.
The control horns, and clevises, still need fine tuning and then cutting down to minimal size/shape.

I will rebuild the prior cutaway foam parts, and the whole dual servo area will have a thin plastic plate cover. And of course the entire areas will be filled, or taped (eg wire slots), and then re-painted over, so there will be no wires etc seen.

A video of the Flaps operating:
Vampire Dual Servo Flaps Operation (0 min 26 sec)


...
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Old Sep 07, 2012, 06:29 PM
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Good work Peter...I managed to get away with just one servo by following the straight line and just using the "pot" on my HK Tx...Im not clued up enough to program it yet and will stick with the basic settings until Im ready to fly or...have someone fly for me. I may have a chance to post some pix over the weekend..Do you plan to add retract doors too?
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Old Sep 08, 2012, 12:17 AM
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Well I will test fly it first. But I do intend to add doors too.
I have to finish off the inboard flaps reshaping, and a bit more 'closing up' of things, today.
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Old Sep 08, 2012, 12:25 AM
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I have "closed up" most of the hacked up areas, LOL.
Replacing some under-side boom pieces, and all the foam, balsa and PET servo cover plate.
I will fly it as is before finishing it all up - filling and painting etc. Just to be sure it all works well first.

The LG legs still all (3) need the alloy leg covers modified a bit so they do not hit the reatct units. Plus they will get the door covers put on at that same time.
Outboard wheel bay doors.... I have planned on how I will do that, but yet to be seen if I can actually make them work acceptably.

To do the outer door portion, it is just a flat hinge recessed into the wing (outwards of the wheel bay of course), with a fine spring put into it so it wants to spring OPEN all the time. Then an "L" bend bit of thin flat alloy (or wire even) that the wheel drives down iinto the bay, and thus pivots the door closed along with it.
But anyway, that is likely to be quite finnicky to get working properly, but should be ok.

....
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Old Sep 08, 2012, 12:34 AM
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Oh... and this little item....
Seen only on my inboard Flaps control horn for now. - seeing I only bought two to test them out.
They are great little things.. even if a bit expensive for such a little item! (56c each).

1) Take a 1.5mm to 2mm wire pushrod
2) Slide adjustable for length, and dual grub screws (loctite them) to lock it all in.
3) 2mm Allen head bolt for the clevis pin - which suits most control horns perfectly.

The control horns I use across all aircraft are listed below too.
So with using 1.5mm piano wire for pushrods (or 2mm in large aircraft), fed into the alloy clevis then into the nylon control horn, there is not one micron of freeplay - yet all free moving. Servo to surface control perfection!

I used a pretty good nylon clevis before, but then you need a "threaded end" to go with that, and then epoxy the 1.5mm pushrod into that threaded end.... a good end result still, but messier and still not as great as with this alloy clevis.
I am getting a heap of them and will use them from now on, and probably even upgrade some of the "not so perfect precision" control setups I have here or there on planes.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ntrol_Rod.html

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...mm_10pcs_.html

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...mm_10pcs_.html
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Old Sep 08, 2012, 02:22 AM
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spring hinges

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterVRC View Post
Oh... and this little item....
Seen only on my inboard Flaps control horn for now. - seeing I only bought two to test them out.
They are great little things.. even if a bit expensive for such a little item! (56c each).

1) Take a 1.5mm to 2mm wire pushrod
2) Slide adjustable for length, and dual grub screws (loctite them) to lock it all in.
3) 2mm Allen head bolt for the clevis pin - which suits most control horns perfectly.

The control horns I use across all aircraft are listed below too.
So with using 1.5mm piano wire for pushrods (or 2mm in large aircraft), fed into the alloy clevis then into the nylon control horn, there is not one micron of freeplay - yet all free moving. Servo to surface control perfection!

I used a pretty good nylon clevis before, but then you need a "threaded end" to go with that, and then epoxy the 1.5mm pushrod into that threaded end.... a good end result still, but messier and still not as great as with this alloy clevis.
I am getting a heap of them and will use them from now on, and probably even upgrade some of the "not so perfect precision" control setups I have here or there on planes.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ntrol_Rod.html

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...mm_10pcs_.html

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...mm_10pcs_.html
I know the spring hinges your talking about but HK dont have them and the only ones I have seen are the"Lander" ones I have tried to add small springs from girls hair alligator clips but the "spring" diameter is too big and trying to make it smaller destroys the spring.
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Old Sep 08, 2012, 09:48 PM
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AWESOME AWESOME flying day today!!!
5 planes.... all perfect flights.... with the Vampire having its first "fully loaded and working" test flights!

What a take-off!!! 40metres and nice gradual rise into the air. I may as well have been watching a real one takling off!!
My football oval had been mown very recently, so the 22metres of cricket pitch, turning into plain grass then, was totally fine for the small Vampire's wheels. No issue at all.
I also had no steering issue, even though I have about 5deg AoA stance - which I thought MIGHT cause unloading of the front wheel too soon. I start out with full down elevator and it just tracked true all the way. At the end of the cricket pitch length approx, I release to neutral elevator and it begins lifting off by itself soon after! Just perfect!! So the AoA stance is just right - and also looks just like real Vampire vids anyway. It is not an aircraft (the real one) with power to burn, so it has to take-off sedately.... 'normally' - which means a long runout and lowish climb angle.

Because the cricket pitch is 'perfect' synthetic grass, there is no FOD issue ever anyway (and my Vampire is quite LOW). And all my planes are either already rising of fthe ground, or very soon after the cricket pitch ends, anyway.

Then the flaps..... AWESOME again! But I could not really tell any difference between having the single pair, or the dual pair. It would be hard to measure in flight really anyway. The current ones do about 70deg, the prior ones were set out to 80deg. So they might be much the same grand total.

Even on the Take-off setting, which is about 30deg, that already slows it a lot in flight. You could even land on just those. But on full flaps..... you come in at 30% throttle just to pass by at walking pace!! And it is not trying to stall at all.... but you certainly would not want to be TURNING at that pace!!

Just a smidgeon under 1500g, it can only fly scale.... it can still loop fine enough, but like a real one you need a run up! It definitely has no power left to burn any! The real ones are weak too - way under 1:1 thrust of course. So I am now going to open the cheaters a bit, to get that bit more thrust they can give - 100g, or a bit under, costing 2A or 3A more. That will be enough. I could leave it as it is, but may as well grab that bit more

Another issue to get onto are the RUDDERS!! Bank and yank aircraft not only look like crap when they are flying, but they are highly inefficient through turns. And if the turns were rudder based, this thing would not lose anywhere near as much speed and then the power it has now would actually be fine. So as usual.... it just highlights my rule of "must have rudders".
But first I will fly it a bit more!! So the rudders can wait a week or two!

You can "see" the mass/weight/inertia, and even on landings.... totally different to a 'floaty toy" that foamies always are. I use almost the entire ovals width to land, coming in over trees and then quickly getting down to about 5metres so I can do the rest of the landing sequence 'realistic'. The final 2metres to touchdown are done very gradually and cover probably 40m alone.
It just cruises on past you, just looking perfect!! And with the 30% RPM required that means it still has a great jet sound showing the engine is actually doing something - and it needs to! - which all ties in to the complete landing realism picture.

Now it is MY CHOICE to land over a 70metre process..... not some stupid featherweight foamie floting its way past and refusing to land!! LOL

It is still great weather.... I am heading out again!
But I can't find any one to come and video it all!! I want to video 4 aircraft that are all in 'super' operating states! I have a 1200mm 1.7Kg Spitfire (WAY over stock weight), and it is neck and neck with the Vampire as to which is more awesome to watch!! The Vampire sounds like a jet.... the Spitfire, with its sound system, sounds like a real Merlin.... the Spitfire has rudder, plus has very clear "inertia slides" when pushed through turns and swooping banking 'attack dives'. So that is something 'better', and more exciting, that it can do. The Vampire doesn't have that inertia effect as clear, even at its 1500g.

Then the 'rocket Meteor" (Habu clone, 1000mm).... and the 1500 mm F-22 Raptor, which is still a fair way off being finalised in all its flight behaviours...... but it is a far more impressive plane than the smaller Vampire and Spitfire. But they all have their own areas of 'reason to look great' anyway, so the Vampire is still a fantastic member of the air wing! LOL

All I have is a few pics....
....
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Old Sep 08, 2012, 10:37 PM
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flight time

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterVRC View Post
AWESOME AWESOME flying day today!!!
5 planes.... all perfect flights.... with the Vampire having its first "fully loaded and working" test flights!

What a take-off!!! 40metres and nice gradual rise into the air. I may as well have been watching a real one takling off!!
My football oval had been mown very recently, so the 22metres of cricket pitch, turning into plain grass then, was totally fine for the small Vampire's wheels. No issue at all.
I also had no steering issue, even though I have about 5deg AoA stance - which I thought MIGHT cause unloading of the front wheel too soon. I start out with full down elevator and it just tracked true all the way. At the end of the cricket pitch length approx, I release to neutral elevator and it begins lifting off by itself soon after! Just perfect!! So the AoA stance is just right - and also looks just like real Vampire vids anyway. It is not an aircraft (the real one) with power to burn, so it has to take-off sedately.... 'normally' - which means a long runout and lowish climb angle.

Because the cricket pitch is 'perfect' synthetic grass, there is no FOD issue ever anyway (and my Vampire is quite LOW). And all my planes are either already rising of fthe ground, or very soon after the cricket pitch ends, anyway.

Then the flaps..... AWESOME again! But I could not really tell any difference between having the single pair, or the dual pair. It would be hard to measure in flight really anyway. The current ones do about 70deg, the prior ones were set out to 80deg. So they might be much the same grand total.

Even on the Take-off setting, which is about 30deg, that already slows it a lot in flight. You could even land on just those. But on full flaps..... you come in at 30% throttle just to pass by at walking pace!! And it is not trying to stall at all.... but you certainly would not want to be TURNING at that pace!!

Just a smidgeon under 1500g, it can only fly scale.... it can still loop fine enough, but like a real one you need a run up! It definitely has no power left to burn any! The real ones are weak too - way under 1:1 thrust of course. So I am now going to open the cheaters a bit, to get that bit more thrust they can give - 100g, or a bit under, costing 2A or 3A more. That will be enough. I could leave it as it is, but may as well grab that bit more

Another issue to get onto are the RUDDERS!! Bank and yank aircraft not only look like crap when they are flying, but they are highly inefficient through turns. And if the turns were rudder based, this thing would not lose anywhere near as much speed and then the power it has now would actually be fine. So as usual.... it just highlights my rule of "must have rudders".
But first I will fly it a bit more!! So the rudders can wait a week or two!

You can "see" the mass/weight/inertia, and even on landings.... totally different to a 'floaty toy" that foamies always are. I use almost the entire ovals width to land, coming in over trees and then quickly getting down to about 5metres so I can do the rest of the landing sequence 'realistic'. The final 2metres to touchdown are done very gradually and cover probably 40m alone.
It just cruises on past you, just looking perfect!! And with the 30% RPM required that means it still has a great jet sound showing the engine is actually doing something - and it needs to! - which all ties in to the complete landing realism picture.

Now it is MY CHOICE to land over a 70metre process..... not some stupid featherweight foamie floting its way past and refusing to land!! LOL

It is still great weather.... I am heading out again!
But I can't find any one to come and video it all!! I want to video 4 aircraft that are all in 'super' operating states! I have a 1200mm 1.7Kg Spitfire (WAY over stock weight), and it is neck and neck with the Vampire as to which is more awesome to watch!! The Vampire sounds like a jet.... the Spitfire, with its sound system, sounds like a real Merlin.... the Spitfire has rudder, plus has very clear "inertia slides" when pushed through turns and swooping banking 'attack dives'. So that is something 'better', and more exciting, that it can do. The Vampire doesn't have that inertia effect as clear, even at its 1500g.

Then the 'rocket Meteor" (Habu clone, 1000mm).... and the 1500 mm F-22 Raptor, which is still a fair way off being finalised in all its flight behaviours...... but it is a far more impressive plane than the smaller Vampire and Spitfire. But they all have their own areas of 'reason to look great' anyway, so the Vampire is still a fantastic member of the air wing! LOL

All I have is a few pics....


....
Good to hear that all went well Peter..From what you have done already the rudders should be an easy build. You said you want only one servo?? Isn't 2 with shorter rods as I have done be more rigid?.. Recorded Flying.... mmm maybe we will have to come down your way soon..I'm not an expert but did have some success recording our car club members tare around Calder Park and Sandown using wide angle and zoom..Just a thought..

Any clues on those damn spring hinges..lol
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Old Sep 09, 2012, 06:14 AM
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The afternoon was even better than the morning. A perfect sunny day with no wind at all pretty much.
But the 'awesome' factor wasn't quite there anymore. Well, the Vampire and CS10 sound in total is as good as jet-like you can get, and the flaps make for a good landing result, but I guess I have already grown to see it as more just a 'normal' thing.

I did note that the take-off flaps position - which I go to first, then extend landing gear, and finally add full flaps as it straightens into final approach - do make the plane climb. So for the moment I am feeding in manual elevator to compensate, and that is simple to be transparent seeing the flaps are quite slow acting. Plus as the plane slows down, you don't need that down elevator anymore anyway.
Moving onwards to full flaps, makes no further difference to attitude - none to be discerned anyway. Though I would expect initially they should add a bit more lift, say until 45deg area, and then after about 50 - 60deg who knows! I would think that the lift gain should be coming off its climbing curve (graph), and all that is being added is drag. But anyway, it is all fine as far as the flight path goes.
Later I might add an elevator mix to the flaps (down elev), but that takes ages to tune-in, plus can vary according to flight speed, wind, etc. So quite often it is not even worth bothering because you are going to need to manually do stuff anyway. Oh... and seeing the speed decrease then offsets its need too.
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