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Old Sep 24, 2012, 01:33 PM
Master Of My Universe
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Newcastle, UK
Joined Jul 2010
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Originally Posted by kosem View Post

Ideal timing for a new sub-forum maybe??
Do you mean they should "branch" out

John.
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Old Sep 24, 2012, 01:34 PM
RC beginner
New York
Joined Oct 2008
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or a refresher course on how to use the rcg "ignore" button. personally id never find myself in that desperate a position. and imo the problems people with are having with videos in micro rtf quads sounds to me quite on topic for a micro rtf quad sub-forum.
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Old Sep 24, 2012, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by dave1993 View Post
i KNEW youd come around! you are a very smart guy.

btw thanks for that excellent prop review. i searched and searched for it thinking it was a separate thread but jesolins finally pointed it out as a post here. it really saved my butt in that "discussion" with nerys. and several of the guys in my dquad thread were very impressed. great photos and it inspired me to pull out the thrust stand again. thanks.
Ah, inverted flattery. Very droll You read that prop review and still purposely(?) misunderstood nerys quite simple suggestion of swapping CW and CCW props to reverse the direction of thrust? Impressive. Didn't you say you were a prop-head? That's someone who knows a lot about props, right?

It's no one's problem but your own that you can't see YouTube videos. You want to comment on something without seeing it and use not seeing it as an excuse to not change your own 'opinion' about thrust percentages, then that's perfectly fine. No one is going to force you, just everyone else will be better informed than you, as well as have a heads-up about where your (slightly muffled) 'opinions' are coming from.
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Originally Posted by dave1993 View Post
and for the record i like internet arguing much more than apologies.

just to be clear a prop that is simply turned around will not reverse thrust regardless of symmetry. when spun in the other direction a normal prop will produce thrust. not much though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave1993 View Post
the question is does it produce enough thrust to fly and the answer is no.
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Originally Posted by dave1993 View Post
if thats the case i may consider buying one if it turns out to be flysky protocol. everybody makes mistakes but its what they do after that counts.
.
That certainly is true....

Quote:
Originally Posted by skitchen8 View Post
Try this, use your method and put it on a scale. According to your reasoning the quad will push down on the scale with a measurable result in reverse thrust if you are right. Let us know how it goes, and then write your apology to Dave for insisting he is incorrect.

This alleviates the possibility of the electronics trying to flip it over, since it will be right side up, and gives you mathematical results that either prove or disprove your theory. I'm sure Dave will happily admit to being wrong if he is... so prove him wrong

Hint: he isn't wrong, and the airplane example he gave shows that quite readily. A reversed prop does not produce reverse thrust unless it is a flat blade.
Hmmm..about that.... Waiting for your response though. Or was the answer not detailed enough for you?
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Last edited by Brandigan; Sep 26, 2012 at 09:19 AM. Reason: Made the 'joke' more obvious, He missed it. :rolleyes:
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Old Sep 24, 2012, 02:30 PM
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...
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Last edited by dave1993; Sep 25, 2012 at 11:35 AM.
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Old Sep 24, 2012, 02:56 PM
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Canada, ON, Ottawa
Joined Dec 2011
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is everybody on the rag this month? all this incessant prattling... while somewhat entertaining... I think that's what WWE wrestling is for... (men's soap opera) *me quickly runs away*

yay! my KK2 board just came-in... I'm outy.

Go flying gents!
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Old Sep 24, 2012, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by dave1993 View Post
hmmm.... SOMEBODY seems to have trouble recognising a compliment when they see one. i will make sure to avoid putting you in that spot again.
Hmmm... you can find the Shift key; or at least the Caps Lock key. It's a start.
And if you can only type with one finger: press Caps Lock, then the letter, then Caps Lock again. This is an equal opportunities forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave1993 View Post
actually our main disagreement stemmed from his insistance that udi and lb props are perfectly flat and have no camber. apparently confused the (somewhat) constant thickness with camber. anyway your photos came in handy there and id like to thank ooops... never mind. anyway im not too surprised you were a little out of touch with that discussion too.
Apparently not:
Quote:
Originally Posted by nerys View Post
when you "FLIP" a prop the pitch remains the same. so NO it won't fly upside down if you flip the props it will fly right into the ground.

I said SWAP the props. to reverse the thrust of a prop you have to reverse its ROTATION

this is why you have to swap arms. 2 spin clockwise 2 spin COUNTER clock wise.

you have two DIFFERENT types of props on your quads (the color is irrelevant aerodynamically)
So much for being an 'expert' on props. Either you have serious comprehension problems, (in which case: are we supposed to feel sorry for you?) or you're just a troll - which you seem to have admitted you are, several times - in which case :yawn: (Darn, why isn't that a built-in emoticon?) Hang on.... . Or option three: both.

Back to Micro RTF quads: For those with access to YouTube - like on a 10+ year old computer or any smart(ish)phone made in the last 5 years - when the weather improves I'll see about posting a better video from under my U816 or X100 showing the lack of vibration, as I never did update the video in my mini-review back here: Another quick impression of the UDI U816 That video is a bit short as it was blowing a gale (flies better in wind than my v929s too), although the lack of jello is clear enough.
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Last edited by Brandigan; Sep 24, 2012 at 05:32 PM.
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Old Sep 24, 2012, 05:46 PM
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United States, IL, Chicago
Joined Jun 2010
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How you become a junkie in a few easy steps.


Got my Ladybird, broke it. Ordered new parts.

This got me thinking, maybe I need another micro quad, so I can fly while waiting for the parts to fix the Ladybird. Then, when they are both down I should clearly have a 3rd one, right?
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Old Sep 24, 2012, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessecuster View Post
How you become a junkie in a few easy steps.


Got my Ladybird, broke it. Ordered new parts.

This got me thinking, maybe I need another micro quad, so I can fly while waiting for the parts to fix the Ladybird. Then, when they are both down I should clearly have a 3rd one, right?
+1

Then occasionally you'll have a bad day, and maybe break all three, and then you'll need a fourth. Due to the slow arrival of parts from China there is a risk of breaking number 4 while you're waiting from China so you add a bnf to the parts order and then... well you can guess
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Old Sep 24, 2012, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandigan View Post
Hmmm... you can find the Shift key; or at least the Caps Lock key. It's a start.
And if you can only type with one finger: press Caps Lock, then the letter, then Caps Lock again. This is an equal opportunities forum.
hah... you can kinda tell how things are going for a dude by the things hes bringing up.

anyway we here from the 23rd century dont believe in upper case unless it serves SOME purpose. like empasizing a point. not just for ritual use as is popular in your 20th century.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandigan View Post
Apparently not:
cute the way you picked one of the posts where bff nerys was arguing with himself. not something i was involved in once we figured out he made up his own definition of "reversed". that was settled early on and he came to agree exactly with my first reply.

the real dispute is evident starting with post #1047 when i put up your pictures to show the blades are not even close to flat. this is what set your "significant other" off and resulted in his posts getting banned by mods. personally i dont believe in hitting the report button but must admit it was funny.

anyway we all more or less recognise (if not agree) these props are designed for thrust in one direction and upside down flight is not feasible.
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Old Sep 24, 2012, 08:19 PM
Grrr :-)
nerys's Avatar
Levittown PA 19057
Joined Aug 2006
438 Posts
"actually our main disagreement stemmed from his insistance that udi and lb props are perfectly flat and have no camber."

once again fabricating facts out of your imagination. Still waiting for you to show me where I said this. I sure never did.

---

stinking laptop. I HATE posting on laptops. cause you touch the "touch" pad and your point of input changes on you and pressing keys do different things.

in this case I tried to back space but because cursor focus was in the browser window proper and not the text box backspace became command GO BACK and it wiped out my entire post.

heck with that not even going to try and retype it all. too stinking tired tonight.

basically this. I think I know why its spinning out of control in yaw.

you swapped the props and inverted the arms. this got you thrusting down with the FC correctly upright.

problem is you reversed the "phase" of the props. they are now spinning backwards "RELATIVE" to the FC.

ie in correct orientation. the CW props spins clockwise relative to the ARM and clockwise relative to the FC.

once you INVERT the arm CW rotation is no longer "linked" between ARM and FC

the prop still spins CW relative to the ARM (prop being up) but now CCW relative to the FC.

a yaw is made by altering RPM of the props to "induce" a yaw. (I assume this is how it yaws ?)

so when your copter YAWS in one direction the FC tries to apply a counter command to make it spin the other way.

but because the props are now "out of phase" with the FC the command to COUNTER a yaw now REINFORCES a yaw instead.

I suspect if you could SEE it fast enough that if you gave it a yaw command (if it will take one the gyro's might override ??? no idea how that works) your controls would be reversed in yaw.

you see translation is controled by AMOUNT of thrust the fact that more thrust needs more rotation is largely irrelevant to the translation.

but YAW requires DIFFERENTIAL ROTATION between CW and CCW prop sets to accomplish so now that your rotations are reversed the commands ALSO need to be reversed.

I think you can do this by swapping the entire arm positions but leaving them in the original "PLUG" positions electrically on the board.

I think your translation commands will now be reversed but your YAW commands will once again work.

but instead of spinning out of control it might now "zoom" one way out of control :-) hehe ie if the drone tilts foward the gyro's will give a tilt backwards command but tilt backwards is now tilt forward you see the problem :-) but on low rates YOU might be able to move the sticks fast enough to counter this at least long enough to see it work.

here is a video describing this. its processing give it time

Copter rotors 180' out of phase? (4 min 44 sec)


as for my posts being hidden. they did not like the way I said some things. I correct what I thought was wrong I guess it was not enough for them and I refuse to alter what I said anymore so I don't care if they stay hidden. their problem now not mine. I gave up caring.
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Old Sep 24, 2012, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nerys View Post
once again fabricating facts out of your imagination. Still waiting for you to show me where I said this. I sure never did.
like you never said "flip"? or the other stuff? lets not go through that again. its too painful to watch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nerys View Post
stinking laptop. I HATE posting on laptops. cause you touch the "touch" pad and your point of input changes on you and pressing keys do different things.

in this case I tried to back space but because cursor focus was in the browser window proper and not the text box backspace became command GO BACK and it wiped out my entire post.

heck with that not even going to try and retype it all. too stinking tired tonight.
i have another bit of advice: do NOT hit esc in the middle of a reply. dont ask how i know this.

i must admit unable to make heads or tails of the middle of your post. too rambling and confused like some of the other stuff. try to sum it up in a sentence or two. then elaborate on request.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nerys View Post
as for my posts being hidden. they did not like the way I said some things. I correct what I thought was wrong I guess it was not enough for them and I refuse to alter what I said anymore so I don't care if they stay hidden. their problem now not mine. I gave up caring.
i dont think they should issue points for those kind of posts. imo people should be allowed to express their opinion (short of obscene or outright vulgar language). so what if somebody calls the other names or accuses his mother of wearing army boots. initiating to personal attacks is the first sign of losing an argument and should be cherished as such. like with brandi for example. how are we to know we have the upper hand w/o those kind of lame comebacks? "oh yeah? YOURE crazy" lol!

also calling the other guy a "troll". one fellow in a yahoo forum on internet etiquette, a professional psychologist, said the first person to do so was usually acting in desperation and often more guilty of this himself. its called "projection". and how many of those posts complaining about off topic actually contain anything relevant to the subject either? easy to skip over or if thats too much work the ignore button is only a click away.

remember, this is mostly fun and games and in rare cases educational.
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Last edited by dave1993; Sep 24, 2012 at 08:59 PM. Reason: believe it or not you can learn something here
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Old Sep 24, 2012, 09:04 PM
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Dear dave,

Respond to my PM or I will murder your chinchilla.

Also, I think, rather than reporting posts, me, you, nerys, and brandigan, and others, should agree upon a way to solve our problems without this senseless strife. I want to learn, and others, when wring need to learn, but we need to find a way without any of you being banned. I love this forum and I would hate to see any of us lose access because of a stupid argument. At the same time even though others get offended some of these offensive posts contain valuable information. Can we all just agree to never report each other and try to carefully monitor our language?

Thanks everyone, even if I disagree with you I appreciate the collective knowledge
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Old Sep 24, 2012, 09:20 PM
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United States, WV, Hurricane
Joined Jan 2010
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I keep hearing that these post have valuable information and while I don't disagree with that I do believe for the most part most if not all of this back and forth has extremely little to do with these cheap toy rtf quadcopters. I also have extremely valuable information regarding the Pythagorean thereom but I'm not going to go posting it because it doesn't really accomplish anything for the main discussion of this thread. I read through and appreciate both sides and I agree no one should be banned, however I have a feeling this is not going to end any time soon and would love to see this become a separate thread rather than filling the pages of this thread. Guaranteed anyone that comes reading/searching through this thread is not looking for this type of information.
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Old Sep 24, 2012, 09:43 PM
Grrr :-)
nerys's Avatar
Levittown PA 19057
Joined Aug 2006
438 Posts
"like you never said "flip"? or the other stuff? lets not go through that again. its too painful to watch."

I am still waiting for your valid quote of where I said what you claim I said.
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Old Sep 25, 2012, 01:06 AM
Bye Bye VP Aug 2010 - Aug 2012
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United Kingdom, London
Joined Jan 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magic_marty View Post
one thing really cool is you can take a picture of the actual model you are flying and use Gimp or photoshop and attach it to the model file and when you select the model it shows up on the screen instead of the corny Heli that Devo had...
Quote:
Originally Posted by nerys View Post
"actually our main disagreement stemmed from his insistance that udi and lb props are perfectly flat and have no camber."

once again fabricating facts out of your imagination. Still waiting for you to show me where I said this. I sure never did.

---

I think you did say it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nerys View Post
your kidding right dave? if you reverse a fixed pitch prop you reverse its thrust.

yes normal props are "less efficient" reversed since they have an airfoil on them but these do not. they will spin and thrust in reverse JUST FINE either way.

don't believe me? swap your props and hold it upside down and "throttle up"
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