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Old Sep 12, 2012, 04:51 PM
RC beginner
New York
Joined Oct 2008
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Originally Posted by nerys View Post
You have a mental comprehension problem. the problem is yours go get it fixed. ONLY YOU GUYS are saying flip the props. not me. that makes it your problem. I am not trying to be mean but I am getting tired or you guys making your own mistakes and claiming they are mine. your mistake your problem.
sorry nerys but thats not quite true. whats happened is youve changed your tune as you realize how these things really work. to recap:

you said your quad flips when you turned the props around because of reversed thrust (iimpossible). then you started takling about turning it upside down (now we know dont work due to accel and unnecessary to prove your point anyway). then insisted udi props are symmetrical (simply not true). the discussion just got worse from there.

at this point we should probably chalk this up to miscommunication and move on. i for one am really interested in how your experiments turn out. youve come up with a very novel concept and definitely piqued my interest.
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 05:03 PM
Registered User
Israel
Joined Jan 2011
257 Posts
I think nerys is right, you can flip some props, swap motors, rotate board or maybe some other tricks... I think that it can be done with some thinking...

BUT, what's the point... If you want it to fly upside down - JUST MOUNT THE CANOPY ON THE BUTTOM OF THE QUAD...........
(For "normal" upside down behaviour you can reverse the AIL and ELV sticks as you wish (with 9X)...)

My Mini Pet flies great upside down:

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Old Sep 12, 2012, 05:04 PM
RC beginner
New York
Joined Oct 2008
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Originally Posted by nerys View Post
My posts are not mixed up. they are crystal clear. the inability to read them is not my problem.

I NEVER EVER ONCE SAID FLIP. I said SWAP.

I am going to say this one last time and only one last time and it will be the EXACT SAME THING I HAVE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG. I have "NEVER EVER" changed this. EVER.

...

in EVERY post following where this comes up I NEVER EVER ONCE say "flip" the props. ONLY YOU GUYS say "flip" the props.

the failure is yours and therefore your problem.

...

100% OF ALL mentions of "flipping" the props are from YOU GUYS not me. and I correct you each time you INCORRECTLY say flip the prop.
so whos post is this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nerys View Post
if you flip the props it will fly right into the ground.
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 05:05 PM
Grrr :-)
nerys's Avatar
Levittown PA 19057
Joined Aug 2006
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sorry dave. your either a liar or your deluding yourself. MY points stand my posts stand. GO READ THEM.

I NEVER said turn the props around. not one single time. NEVER not once EVER. Provide the post where I said this.

I said SWAP the props and try to fly it upside down. I IN FACT DID THIS but it IMMEDIATELY tries to flip itself right side up again with great force.

I thought maybe I goofed and put two of the props back on "the correct way" but NO when I hold it "right side up" it behaves normally but all thrust going down of course since I swapped the props.

upside down and again it "flips" ie somehow it knows its upside down and is trying to "right" itself.

YOUR discussion got worse as your comprehension got worse and worse.

I HAVE NEVER WAVERED. I have never "flipped" my stanced. I have NEVER changed my position I have never backpedaled on this issue.

I also never said UDI props are symetrical.

I VERY clearly said "for all intents and purposes" they are "flat plate" airfoils. any airfoil that is present is TINY in extreme and does NOT inhibit the props from reverse thrusting quite effectively.

SO everything you are saying I said and that I insisted I NEVER ACTUALLY SAID and NEVER actually insisted.

again if I goofed please provide the post number where "I" goofed.
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 05:16 PM
Grrr :-)
nerys's Avatar
Levittown PA 19057
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave1993 View Post
so whos post is this?



not only mentioned "flip" but clearly indicated you thought flipping reverses thrust. you are a LOT smarter now.

Irrelevant. READ WHAT THAT STINKING POST WAS REPLYING TOO. IN CONTEXT

I NEVER thought flipping the prop reversed the thrust> EVER NOT IN MY LIFE.

I was trying to CORRECT HIM which is the ONLY reason I used the word FLIP here and you know it.

NOW let me ask you this.

FLIP the prop (same motor just flip the prop 180)

NOW turn the copter upside down so the top is facing the ground (THAT IS WHAT WHAT I AM TRYING TO DO HERE)

what does it do? before I found out it can tell its upside down it would "do" exactly what I then say.

FLY STRAIGHT INTO THE GROUND because flipping the prop does not flip the THRUST so it will still thrust "Model Z positive" which in this example is STRAIGHT DOWN.

the only way that comment is unclear is if you read it in a vaccuum out of context. again your failing.

a FLIPPED prop will thrust the "SAME DIRECTION" regardless of which way you flip it.

FLIPPING does nor reverse thrust.

SO if you FLIP the props and turn the copter upside down IT WILL THRUST RIGHT INTO THE GROUND (ignoring its tendency to want to flip right side up)

and THAT

NO it won't fly upside down if you flip the props it will fly right into the ground.

is exactly what I said. YOU reading that comment "WRONG" is not my problem.
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 06:01 PM
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Keep this to pm's it now degraded into pointless flaming.
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 06:10 PM
Grrr :-)
nerys's Avatar
Levittown PA 19057
Joined Aug 2006
438 Posts
I am not flaming. at least not intending too. statements are being attributed to me that never came out of my mouth or off my fingers. that bugs me.

these folks are making mistakes and attributing, incorrectly, their errors to me.
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 06:14 PM
Fly Fast, Fly Hard, Fly Fun
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Canada, BC
Joined Apr 2012
1,441 Posts
V939

Greetings Folks.

Yesterday my V939 showed up. It does fly quite well out of the box but after having some fun indoors and outdoors over about a half-dozen flights my first impression is that the V939 is not a keeper. I love the size, the LEDs and the overall "solid" feeling of it. When I first started flying it I was trying to compare it to a V929 and found it far less stable. I can hear the tiny props floundering in their own wash and a few times in mild flight it just destabilizes and lands on it's head. When I tried to rescue it I hit myself with the props a few times and wow... they really sting! Not something I would recommend flying around kids or your spouse. It seems to collect hair and thread like crazy. I do like the changes to the tx - like the one-button flip - but that said with the tendancy to land on it's head I'm not finding the flips very fun.

Sure, a bit more practice and I'd be a lot better with it, but overall I think I'm safer, will learn more, and will have more fun with the V929/V949 or even the V911. Maybe I'll try adding a bigger lipo or moving it below the holder and see if the added weight below will give it more stability.
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 06:21 PM
a.k.a. BiggTony
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United States, FL, Fort Walton Beach
Joined Jul 2010
297 Posts
I'm learning that the smaller quad is much like swinging a baseball from string as opposed to the larger v929 quad which is more delicately swung like a balloon on a string. As much as I hated the U816 the first 40 flights, I must say I'm much better,....but the controls are still sketchy. The u816 has definitely impacted my wanting to purchase the v939 in a negative way. But, I may get it anyway just so I can have a reasonable comparison.
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 06:24 PM
Grrr :-)
nerys's Avatar
Levittown PA 19057
Joined Aug 2006
438 Posts
Asanado I am sorry I forgot you :-)

BUT, what's the point..

I have one video for you

RC helicopter awesome 3D flying! (5 min 25 sec)


quads can do that in theory.

it would probably have to be lady bird sized (low mass low inertial mass in the props)

a direct drive brushless carbon fiber prop 929 size vehicle might still be light enough/powerful enough with low inertial mass props to still be able to do it.

but in theory a quad should be able to do mild versions of "THAT" kind of flying.

now the way THOSE guys do it is they pretty much run the motor flat out and they have variable pitch control of the rotor head (I think its called collective?)

we don't have that and you NEED that with larger vehicles.

but these MICRO quads are so light with such a high potential power to weight ratio and low moment of inertia props (ie you can stop and start them "FAST")

My lady bird spins up so fast I can make it LEAP off the ground and probably smash into the ceiling before I realized what happened if I just jammed the throttle to its stops.

"that" is why I would love to see a 3D version of a quad. I have No doubt I could NEVER fly like that. But there are plenty of people who can :-)
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 06:45 PM
a.k.a. BiggTony
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United States, FL, Fort Walton Beach
Joined Jul 2010
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Nerys, see Brandigans post on page 50.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...701910&page=50
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 06:47 PM
RC beginner
New York
Joined Oct 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nerys View Post
sorry dave. your either a liar or your deluding yourself. MY points stand my posts stand. GO READ THEM.

I NEVER said turn the props around. not one single time. NEVER not once EVER. Provide the post where I said this.
so whos post was this again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nerys View Post
when you "FLIP" a prop the pitch remains the same. so NO it won't fly upside down if you flip the props it will fly right into the ground.
hmmmm...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nerys View Post
I HAVE NEVER WAVERED. I have never "flipped" my stanced. I have NEVER changed my position I have never backpedaled on this issue.
hmmmm...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nerys View Post
I also never said UDI props are symetrical. I VERY clearly said "for all intents and purposes" they are "flat plate" airfoils.
so either we have a problem with the word "symetrical" (sic) or the words "flat plate". in aeronautics class we were taught flat plate is by deifinition a symmetric airfoil. there are other symmetric airfoils but all flat plate are in that category because they lack camber and profile.

no matter what ive actually tested udi props in both directions and theres almost twice the lift if spun normally. with others the difference was even more extreme. you are allowed to continue thinking they are flat plate but if you want to see one that is REALLY flat plate take a peek at an s107 tail prop.

anyway as i keep insisting udi props are not actually flat plate or symmetriic. if you slice one it becomes obvious not only do they have camber but also a pretty sexy profile with sharp le and te.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nerys View Post
SO everything you are saying I said and that I insisted I NEVER ACTUALLY SAID and NEVER actually insisted.
you sound exactly like nathan thurm, the nervous cig smoking sleezeball lawyer on snl. lol! i love that guy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nerys View Post
again if I goofed please provide the post number where "I" goofed.
welllllll... if you insist:

Quote:
Originally Posted by nerys View Post
if you reverse a fixed pitch prop you reverse its thrust. yes normal props are "less efficient" reversed since they have an airfoil on them but these do not. they will spin and thrust in reverse JUST FINE either way.
again id have to say from actually measuring reverse thrust that "just fine" must be in the eye of the beholder. and ill also mention again that model plane builders often wonder why their plane will taxi but not leave the ground. then find out how important it is to have the letters face front.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nerys View Post
I am looking at the props on my U816 and ladybird. they are flat planes. no camber anywhere.
again "you" goofed. its true one must look closely to see the camber and profile on a udi prop. but a legally blind person can tell from a mile away the lb is not symmetric err... excuse... me... flat plate.

i really do have to find that thread with closeup edge-on pics that makes this whole argument look ridiculous.

WAIT! theres more! (do i sound like an info-mmercial?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nerys View Post
I never said flip the props around I sent SWAP them around.
i think we established that you did talk about flipping. more than once.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nerys View Post
props have a "warp"
so im guessing you are a star trek fan?

hey, big brother's coming on and i just gotta watch the quack pack devour itself. i dont know who to root for because i was a frank fan and hate 'em all now. so we can pick this up tommorrow.
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 06:52 PM
RC beginner
New York
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Originally Posted by Xermalk View Post
Keep this to pm's it now degraded into pointless flaming.
lol! another great photo for my collection.

and i disagree. most of what nerys says now is correct and informatiive (for those able and willing to learn). and applies directly to these toy quads. its certainly more interesting than what new color canopies are out and how long it takes bangood to get a package to the doorstep.
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 06:54 PM
Grrr :-)
nerys's Avatar
Levittown PA 19057
Joined Aug 2006
438 Posts
You established nothing. I have proven you wrong again and again.

I stand by what I said. UNCHANGED. not one single word.

you can quote in vac out of context all you want. if this allows you to convince yourself into thinking your right thats your problem.

Reality is funny that way. it tends to impose itself on you whether you agree with it or not.

you can not take a later comment OUT of the context of its original comment. Period.

this is a common troll tactic. someone says something. you (not necessarily you in particular) screw up reading what they said you "object" you realize OOPS I goofed he did say it right but your ego won't let you back pedal so you keep tossing crap out to obfuscate the matter. rapid fire then you "nitpick" the other person's replies in vac out of context and proclaim yourself victorious.

like I said. Reality is funny that way. it tends to impose itself on you whether you agree with it or not.

these are the facts AS "I" have stated them over and over again.

if you REVERSE the rotation of the props (you do this "NOW" by swapping the clockwise prop to the counter clockwise arm) the unit will thrust model Z- relative.

even if the prop is 50% as efficient it has MORE than enough thrust to lift the models mass into the air since it has in excess of 200% of the power it needs to fly. (I am 99% certain of this though I have not tested it just "gut" instinct at this point)

The "foil" on these props is MINIMAL at best. you can consider them effectively "flate plate" aerodynamically for the purpose of reversing thrust for a little 3D action. IE once you have enough thrust overage is not as critical anymore IE just want to make it work. The FOIL for example on my Radian prop is EXTREMELY pronounced. it would "NOT" work very well (if at all effectively) in reverse.

NOW with all that said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING I have stated IN CONTEXT not in vac is inconsistent with those statements from start to finish.

so again I stand by what I said. unchanged.
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 07:01 PM
Grrr :-)
nerys's Avatar
Levittown PA 19057
Joined Aug 2006
438 Posts
dedmon those vids are great but they it the way the choppers do it. IE very expensive (relatively speaking)

I think with some programming tweaking (probably slightly more involved than that but you get the idea) I think a $50 unit could be made to "do" some of these without collective.

ie these tiny 816/lb props are so small and slightly over powered that like I originally said I think you could flip 180 stop the props reverse the power and spin back up with minimal altitude loss.

goto brushless with direct drive no bigger than 929 and go ultralight and I think you could have a seriously mean 3D machine potentially.

but man you better have some damned good eyes :-) hehe
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