SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Aug 01, 2012, 09:21 AM
Cranky old fart
Balr14's Avatar
Germantown, WI.
Joined Oct 2007
21,432 Posts
The MQx was the first micro quad and is still the best performing and most durable. The 929 appears to be pretty close on most counts. They do no have accelerometers, nor do they need them.

The Walkera Ladybird was the second micro quad, several months later. It's quicker, more effected by air currents and not as precise handling, compared to the MQx. It also will damage all 4 motors with repeated landing on hard surfaces because it's landing on the motor pods. If it uses accelerometers they are the same ones used in the Genius and are not very good.

The various copies of the Ladybird appear to have addressed the issue of landing on the motor pods. All the posts I've read indicate none are better handling than the original and a few are worse.

Carefree mode uses a magnetometer to identify the initial heading of the front of your quad. After that, regardless of the direction your quad faces, the virtual heading will not change. In other words, if the front is facing way from you at initialization, it doesn't matter what direction you turn it, the quad will always respond as if it was facing away. This function does not use GPS. It requires a channel to activate and deactivate it. There are variations to this mode, as it's basically all code and there's lot of versions of code out there.
Balr14 is online now Find More Posts by Balr14
Last edited by Balr14; Aug 01, 2012 at 09:26 AM.
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Aug 01, 2012, 09:28 AM
Registered User
Joined Jun 2012
2,582 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doblao View Post
Sorry to say you are not right......using compass you can allow the machine go forward or to any side ("forward or to any side" from your point of view) no matter where it be pointing...so yes..its very useful to bring the quad back to you when you dont know where it is facing..

No need of GPS for that.....and sure Ive read a lot more than I can explain with my bad english...
Yes, I agree that you do not need GPS. I have a compass on my X450 and it has Carefree and Heading Lock modes using it. I flip one switch to rotate to the direction it was facing when I took off (Heading Lock) and then fly it normally and away from that large tree I was heading for, or another switch for CareFree, where it flies towards, away, left and right of the original orientation, no matter if it's been rotated in the meantime. Which means you can also do pirouettes while travelling in any direction you like.
Brandigan is offline Find More Posts by Brandigan
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 01, 2012, 09:34 AM
Registered User
Joined Jun 2012
2,582 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameschen072 View Post
guys, you aren't going to see GPS technology or heading hold compasses on the micro quadcopters in the near future... it's cheap but just not cheap enough to be integrated into these micro quads, especially since we are talking about ones that cost around 40-50USD RTF. (You might see it first on slightly larger quads like the Hoten X... but I'd say it's still years away before you will see one on a micro)
Having got one on my X450, I hopefully disagree with you and want one A compass is a tiny little thing and really simple to add. It would make perfect sense to add one to a tiny quad that you soon lose all orientation on after about 50 ft.

Please, please mention it to the designers at WLToys for their next model. It's the future...now
Brandigan is offline Find More Posts by Brandigan
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 01, 2012, 09:38 AM
Registered User
Joined Jun 2012
2,582 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balr14 View Post
The Walkera Ladybird was the second micro quad, several months later. It's quicker, more effected by air currents and not as precise handling, compared to the MQx.
Haven't you got this bit ackwards? The Ladybird and all the Mini Micro quads are less affected by air currents because of the higher speed of their props. They could virtually fly in a vacuum. The Blade and the v929 get blown around a lot because they are relying on relatively slow prop speeds and higher angles of pitch on them. The air moves, they go with it.
Brandigan is offline Find More Posts by Brandigan
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 01, 2012, 09:39 AM
Registered User
United Kingdom, England, Redcar
Joined Jan 2006
3,268 Posts
Disagree , at this size, tx range and price gyro and accel would be more than enough, i have a Bambucopter with Crius SE board and its lost after a certain point whereas my f450 is easily seen way past the same distance.
For $40-50 including transmitter and battery i doubt we will get much more than that.
scousethief is offline Find More Posts by scousethief
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 01, 2012, 09:55 AM
The flightless bird
jameschen072's Avatar
Joined Aug 2004
2,290 Posts
@Brandigan: I'd like to prove myself wrong too..but if the companies won't come up with an original design due to costs and instead resorts to copying the designs of other quadcopters, then I think it's very hard for them to innovate. A lot of the comments I've made to both Benma and WLToys have been shot down due to cost. Take the Helios for example, I made countless attempts for them to add plugs onto the PCB so that we can replace parts without soldering...but it came down to cost...and their final verdict was that it's too expensive for them to do so. Therefore, I think it's unlikely that you'll see the compass added to the boards of these little quads (a little x a lot = a lot!!)
Again, I would love to prove myself wrong and so I'll ask them about it...but don't get your hopes up

Regarding Balr14's comments on the Ladybird:
Some of my findings on the original ladybird are quite different than his. Whether it's due to the different flight software or tx settings...I don't know. But I have never flown anything that's more precise than the Ladybird. It also handles a heck of a lot of wind (I wouldn't fly my fixed wing aircraft in the winds that I've flown my Ladybird in)..



How's that for precision? :P Notice the amount of wind from the waves forming on the water

His comment on the motors though was spot on. The motors (earlier ones) tend to get stuck if you do a hard landing or if you crash inverted...and they've addressed the issue by adding foam(rubber?) padding to the base of the motors. I added a Mini CP landing gear to the bottom of my quad and I've never had to replace a motor due to hard landings again. I recommend it for all of you who are considering one of these micros.
jameschen072 is offline Find More Posts by jameschen072
RCG Plus Member
Old Aug 01, 2012, 10:11 AM
Hong Kong
Joined Jan 2010
6,148 Posts
I wonder whether the original QR ladybird was very popular in China to have spawn such a high number of clones in such a short time? I also wonder whether the V1 QR Ladybird has been discontinued? If so, it would be pity that a superior product has been discontinued because of the clones.
zadaw is offline Find More Posts by zadaw
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 01, 2012, 10:21 AM
Registered User
Joined Jun 2012
2,582 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameschen072 View Post
@Brandigan: I'd like to prove myself wrong too..but if the companies won't come up with an original design due to costs and instead resorts to copying the designs of other quadcopters, then I think it's very hard for them to innovate. A lot of the comments I've made to both Benma and WLToys have been shot down due to cost.
...... Therefore, I think it's unlikely that you'll see the compass added to the boards of these little quads (a little x a lot = a lot!!)
Again, I would love to prove myself wrong and so I'll ask them about it...but don't get your hopes up
My hopes are up and it's over to you to leverage your close position with these companies to get them to innovate more.

I know a little x a lot = lots of lots, but they'd buy a compass for $0.02 in bulk, do a tiny bit of R'n'D (not that hard to subtract current compass angle from initial angle and modify the direction to fly in), add another channel+toggle button to the radio and whack $4 on the cost of the item to wholesale, which turns into $10 at retail. I'd buy it in a flash! It would be worth the extra to not have the Quad stuck up a tree or in a pond because I lost orientation.

Not even complicated to use. You can calibrate the compass (mainly for use with GPS) on my X450, but I never bothered and didn't care if it thought North was West, because it's all about the difference between start-up and current angles, and it works perfectly out of the box.

Also, because it would be much less confusing to fly for 'beginners' it would become more mass market. Something they clearly considered when they added the 20% 'indoor/beginner/training' mode which is much easier to use than the Blade mQX 75%/100% D/R settings. Saving pennies now so your future self loses out on pounds is always a bad idea.
Brandigan is offline Find More Posts by Brandigan
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 01, 2012, 10:29 AM
Registered User
Joined Jun 2012
2,582 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by scousethief View Post
Disagree , at this size, tx range and price gyro and accel would be more than enough, i have a Bambucopter with Crius SE board and its lost after a certain point whereas my f450 is easily seen way past the same distance.
For $40-50 including transmitter and battery i doubt we will get much more than that.
Well, the problem I have is I'll send it up about 50ft and out about 100 yards and if the wind is a bit gusty, it can get turned around and I can't quite see which way it is facing. It's not that I've forgotten, it's just that it has changed orientation without my input. So I'd quite like the abilty for me to flick a switch to have it reorientate itself, or for it to know that it has rotated in the wind and my inputs are still correct, and it will react as expected.

I'm going to go with the old saying about scientists: "When a scientist says something can be done, he's usually right. When one says it can't be done, he's usually wrong."
Brandigan is offline Find More Posts by Brandigan
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 01, 2012, 11:38 AM
Registered User
United Kingdom, England, Redcar
Joined Jan 2006
3,268 Posts
Brandigan : although i would "love" to have something like these recent micro quads with as many bells and whistles as possible there is a point of diminishing returns which these companies have to adhere to , nobody is going to make a device and sell it at cost it simply does not make financial sense in any way shape of form , even the most basic "cheap" FC boards cost around $15-20........ without motors , frame, TX, battery, if the next iteration come with a socket for camera or lights then i think that would be pushing the limit in this price range.


Personally id like to see an f450 with everything including GPS for $20 but it aint gonna happen its that simple.

As for your scientists quote , well we have had scientists involved in everything for years and i still cant get a BMW for the price of a Skoda , my car still runs on Petrol rather than high efficiency batteries and we still havent put people on Mars despite the tech being available..................solar power, wind power, tidal power all available and yet we still use dirty inefficient methods to power our cars and homes despite the tech being widly available for years.
scousethief is offline Find More Posts by scousethief
Last edited by scousethief; Aug 01, 2012 at 11:51 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 01, 2012, 12:28 PM
Cranky old fart
Balr14's Avatar
Germantown, WI.
Joined Oct 2007
21,432 Posts
My comments about the Ladybird handling were basically for indoor flight. The higher headspeed seemed to cause more unpredictable air currents in a confined space. The Ladybird also slid around more than the MQx. There are several threads in other forums that have similar observations. Outdoor handling is much better for the Ladybird, although it's size is a problem.

These RTF micro quads are creating a lot of interest in advancing to "real" quads. So, if you get the bug, I recommend the MWC X250 kit. It's very complete and comes with all the bells and whistles (auto-level, magnetometer, barometer, carefree and GPS). It costs $160 (add $40 for GPS) and requires Tx, Rx and battery.
Balr14 is online now Find More Posts by Balr14
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 01, 2012, 12:32 PM
Registered User
United Kingdom, England, Redcar
Joined Jan 2006
3,268 Posts
Outdoors wind will always be an issue for small quads , always.
scousethief is offline Find More Posts by scousethief
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 01, 2012, 12:33 PM
Registered User
Joined Feb 2007
531 Posts
Jameschen,

Pretty good flying putting them out there with all that water and wind.

Has anybody seen the video of the ladybird (think it was that one) with the two foam balls on each boom and it could land and float in water? I'm pretty sure I saw it someplace on this site, or maybe it was youtube but can't find it now. Seemed like a pretty easy way to make these small quads water safe.
jpconard is offline Find More Posts by jpconard
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 01, 2012, 12:38 PM
Addict.
United States, NY, Binghamton
Joined Jul 2010
1,543 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by scousethief View Post
solar power, wind power, tidal power all available and yet we still use dirty inefficient methods to power our cars and homes despite the tech being widly available for years.
Reminds me of how I saw a story awhile ago about some folks locally that shut down plans for a wind farm because they were afraid it might interfere with the view from their house. Very rarely does a newspaper article make me want to kick someone in the teeth...
skitchen8 is offline Find More Posts by skitchen8
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 01, 2012, 12:41 PM
Registered User
cgpirre's Avatar
Belgium
Joined Dec 2011
624 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balr14 View Post
It's very complete and comes with all the bells and whistles (auto-level, magnetometer, barometer, carefree and GPS). It costs $160 (add $40 for GPS) and requires Tx, Rx and battery.


Srsly tho, that is kind of exactly what I was thinking of buying when I'm more comfortable with my v929. Is there a thread or more info about this somewhere?
cgpirre is offline Find More Posts by cgpirre
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Suggestion Personal attack Rule as it applies to Trader Talk Thread Titles porcia83 Site Suggestions / Complaints 3 Jul 27, 2012 11:58 AM
For Sale Quadcopter Parts Sale Thread mfkubak Aircraft - Electric - Multirotor (FS/W) 10 Jul 26, 2012 02:33 PM
Discussion Why are there so many heli threads in the Airplane Micro RTF forum? Bowerz Site Chat 38 Dec 15, 2009 06:43 PM
Wattage RTF Micro Flyer (thread #2) Skyshark Scratchbuilt Indoor and Micro Models 233 Sep 17, 2009 02:22 PM
Wattage RTF Micro Flyer (thread #1) Bleriot Scratchbuilt Indoor and Micro Models 384 Dec 15, 2004 02:28 PM