Convair XFY-1 (Pogo) - Page 2

Bob H · Nov 18, 2003, 05:24 PM

Ed,
Is the vertical fins just one layer of FFF or have you braced them some other way to take the landing loads on the Pogo?
Thanks
Bob H

Ed Couch · Nov 18, 2003, 05:45 PM

Bob, the fins are a single layer as noted but there is an 1/8th inch carbon tube inlaid about 1 inch up from the hinge line in the fins and wings. Also note the gear legs are also carbon tube with the castors inside of them. The tubes are connected with triangular 1/64 plywood plates on either side of point of contact of the tubes thusly tranmitting loads to the tubing. Dropped check proved out to about 2 feet which if I fall its my fault. Last flight the other night I slid backward too quick (came off the throttle) and she fell over, if I had only dropped a click or so on the throttle it may of stayed upright although there was a little forward speed at the point of contact. Bad throttle management on my part. Need a lot of practice becomming stable for landing. On the original it was quit touchy at that point as well. Also air vehicles C/G is still a little to far forward. Will continue evolution flight by flight. No hurry.

Alfredo Rubio · Nov 18, 2003, 09:56 PM

Yes!!!!! NIce to meet you Ed, I love this video when Gary launched your Wright.

I mean the Pogo's Wing Loading, because you wrotte the model is some heavy to make 3D flights. In gas powered models I did not know about calculates the wing loading, I learned this from my friend Jorge Fernandez and in electrics I always like to know about this datta, is a way to know how the model flies...or the more close to know, as another thought with the design.

Regards.

Ed Couch · Nov 19, 2003, 07:54 AM

Alfredo, don't have a clue as to the wing loading. Never pay much attention to it if the thing flies smooth and stable which it has so far. Will check it out this evening when I return to the house, at work now. Not to hard to figure just take a little time. ed

Alfredo Rubio · Nov 21, 2003, 12:21 PM

Thanks Ed, does the pogo could make tight turns? Because I only flew one delta, the Jedi Star Fighter, and to fly fine I did open and smoth turns, with the Batteries fresh charged I did some tight turns but in the rest of the flight I could not, this turns kill the speed and the model slow down; Patrick told me this is one characteristec in Deltas.

Regads.

Ed Couch · Nov 21, 2003, 06:36 PM

Works both ways quite well even though it is spinning a 12/6 prop. Due to the drag enduced by the flat plate of the wing most simple deltas will slow down fast when they go to a high alpha and this is also true to standard airfoiled deltas. We normally use pure brut force to pull us around and don't think too much of it because we are slow fly type aircraft. The aircraft is designed to work in a high aplha state so it will be pure power that pulls thing along. Flying characterstics are ok, wish wing loading was down a couple of ounces but can live with this. Was planning on flying some this week but the doctors put me in bed with pneumonia for at least next week so my flying is over for the next week or so.

MichaelConnally · Nov 22, 2003, 12:30 PM

Very nice Ed!
Can't wait to see it fly.
Mike

Ed Couch · Nov 22, 2003, 04:21 PM

Thanks Mike, I need somebody to do the hover work for me. Hope you were able to make it at LMRA. Beats hell out of being in bed when I could be out flying. Voice still gone and still tired all the time. Hope this gets better soon. See Ya. ed

tashley · Nov 23, 2003, 07:54 PM

Ed, I see you've been bitten by this foam/electric thing too. Who would have thought something so simple could be so much fun. I guess the last time I saw you was at the ARCA's ducted fan meet in Austin back in the eighties and you were campaigning an A-10. Hope you get better soon.

Tom

Ed Couch · Nov 24, 2003, 04:12 AM

Tom, after all the years (28) flying fans and master scale it got to where it was no fun anymore. The indoor electric and parkflyers put the fun back in flying. The cost is relative minimal and you can let the creative juices flow without worrying about the next house or car payment being late. I loved and always will like my jets and the big A10, F84 and others are still here but collecting dust. I just went back to basics and its a whole lot more fun. The Pogo is my first in blue foam as I normally work in carbon fibre or balsa. I've built so many aircraft in the last five years that I can't even start to remember what they are and thats a far cry from one a year at best with my jets. Whatever, its a beautiful way to spend a little down time. And thank you, I'm feeling a lot better over the last few days except I still can't talk, I think the wife kinds of enjoys that and the grandkids are still laughing. ed

tashley · Nov 24, 2003, 07:41 AM

Ed, will you be sharing the plans for the Pogo? That really looks like a fun ship. My first endeavor in the flat Depron foam realm is a 3DX, my avatar, and it's been a blast. Originally I opted for the inexpensive route with a GWS 350 brushed motor, but after burning out the first two running on 3s 1200 mAh e-techs I'll be doing the brushless thing soon, probably a Himax.

Tom

houfek · Nov 24, 2003, 09:59 AM

Ed.....
Incredible work......and a fun one to bring to the modeling world. The Paul Garber facility (Smithsonian's restoration facility) out in Suitland, MD had one in one of their hangers....those are supposed to be moved to the new place at Dulles by next month......it has always been a favorite of mine since I built a plastic Revell kit of it WAY too many years ago !!

Now if you can get it with the counter-rotating props, I will be REALLY impressed !!!

Hope you are feeling better......
Happy Turkey....

Jim

Ed Couch · Nov 24, 2003, 10:44 AM

As for plans, lets get the bird working first as a second bird will be required to work out any future plans. As some of you know I love to fly unique aircraft and never really attempt to publish as its for my enjoyment, personal pleasure, nothing more. Bob Wilder is working up a counter rotating GWS system for me for a smaller full bodied version of the bird in the near future so thats probably what would be released. Gary Jones and Mike Connally have profected the tail sitter in the JAR series of birds so the Pogo is basically the same idea put into a scale profile configuration. I cheated and waited for someone else to figure out the problems before I jumped in with the Pogo. The main problem is not the aircraft but the old fart behind the stick, I fly basic choppers once in a while, jets for 28 years, and about any thing that flies but never much cared for hovering 3D work so I have a learning curve to overcome. I'm still only three flights into the development so have a lot of work to do. Maybe I'll be able to put a few more flights on her this weekend if I can still get out. Been down sick since Monday week and I'm going about nuts piddling around the house. Looks like its supposed to get cold tonite so don't see much flying at all until Saturday. Home and don't feel like building, sucks!

ronin8451 · Nov 24, 2003, 01:46 PM

Looks much better all rigged up , Ed ! We missed you on Friday, hope you get to feeling better.

Ed Couch · Nov 24, 2003, 04:05 PM

Ronin, hope to be kickin and screamin again soon. Here is a little point of history for myself and the Pogo. Way back in 1970 I was out of Avionics school (NAS Millington, Tenn) going to first posting at NAS Oceana Virginia and got there in January, was scheduled for several secondary schools preculiar to the F-4 B and J models VF-101 was flying at that time and had a couple of days off so I headed in to the Norfolk Naval Air Station to see what aircraft were out front of the admin building. Years before someone had told me the Pogo was a gate guard and danged if it wasn't. It was setting out front of the building with another aircraft of history the Truculant Turtle a PB2Y and across the street along the waterfront was an old Martin Seaplane. Needless to say I was in hog heaven for a long time. Used to visit all the Army, Navy and Air Force bases around the area to look at the various aircraft on parade. But the most exciting was the Pogo. Over the years I've worked on F-8s, A-7s, F-4B/Js, F-16s, F-111s, C-130Js and now the F-22. Been in the business since I was a Freshman in college and I'm 56 and still kickin and hopefully will retire with the F-35 in my pocket.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Yippee! Convair XFY-1 Pogo VTOL	Y_Sekiai	Foamies (Kits)	105	Aug 17, 2009 12:08 PM
Discussion Convair XFY-1 (Pogo)	Ed Couch	Parkflyers	10	Dec 19, 2006 12:08 AM
Discussion Convair XFY-1 (Pogo)	Ed Couch	VTOLs	1	Jun 25, 2006 07:11 PM
Discussion Convair XFY-1 (Pogo)	Ed Couch	Indoor and Micro Models	0	Jun 11, 2006 03:17 PM
Discussion AFPD - finally landed the Convair XFY-1 Pogo!	Bill Glover	Simulators	16	Feb 17, 2006 02:47 PM

Nov 18, 2003, 05:24 PM	#16
Bob H bob h Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 88	Ed, Is the vertical fins just one layer of FFF or have you braced them some other way to take the landing loads on the Pogo? Thanks Bob H

Nov 18, 2003, 05:45 PM	#17
Ed Couch Registered User Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: North Richland Hills, Texas USA Posts: 1,495	Bob, the fins are a single layer as noted but there is an 1/8th inch carbon tube inlaid about 1 inch up from the hinge line in the fins and wings. Also note the gear legs are also carbon tube with the castors inside of them. The tubes are connected with triangular 1/64 plywood plates on either side of point of contact of the tubes thusly tranmitting loads to the tubing. Dropped check proved out to about 2 feet which if I fall its my fault. Last flight the other night I slid backward too quick (came off the throttle) and she fell over, if I had only dropped a click or so on the throttle it may of stayed upright although there was a little forward speed at the point of contact. Bad throttle management on my part. Need a lot of practice becomming stable for landing. On the original it was quit touchy at that point as well. Also air vehicles C/G is still a little to far forward. Will continue evolution flight by flight. No hurry.

Nov 18, 2003, 09:56 PM	#18
Alfredo Rubio Moderador Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: guadalajara, jalisco, mexico Posts: 6,433	Yes!!!!! NIce to meet you Ed, I love this video when Gary launched your Wright. I mean the Pogo's Wing Loading, because you wrotte the model is some heavy to make 3D flights. In gas powered models I did not know about calculates the wing loading, I learned this from my friend Jorge Fernandez and in electrics I always like to know about this datta, is a way to know how the model flies...or the more close to know, as another thought with the design. Regards.

Nov 19, 2003, 07:54 AM	#19
Ed Couch Registered User Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: North Richland Hills, Texas USA Posts: 1,495	Alfredo, don't have a clue as to the wing loading. Never pay much attention to it if the thing flies smooth and stable which it has so far. Will check it out this evening when I return to the house, at work now. Not to hard to figure just take a little time. ed

Nov 21, 2003, 12:21 PM	#20
Alfredo Rubio Moderador Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: guadalajara, jalisco, mexico Posts: 6,433	Thanks Ed, does the pogo could make tight turns? Because I only flew one delta, the Jedi Star Fighter, and to fly fine I did open and smoth turns, with the Batteries fresh charged I did some tight turns but in the rest of the flight I could not, this turns kill the speed and the model slow down; Patrick told me this is one characteristec in Deltas. Regads.

Nov 21, 2003, 06:36 PM	#21
Ed Couch Registered User Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: North Richland Hills, Texas USA Posts: 1,495	Works both ways quite well even though it is spinning a 12/6 prop. Due to the drag enduced by the flat plate of the wing most simple deltas will slow down fast when they go to a high alpha and this is also true to standard airfoiled deltas. We normally use pure brut force to pull us around and don't think too much of it because we are slow fly type aircraft. The aircraft is designed to work in a high aplha state so it will be pure power that pulls thing along. Flying characterstics are ok, wish wing loading was down a couple of ounces but can live with this. Was planning on flying some this week but the doctors put me in bed with pneumonia for at least next week so my flying is over for the next week or so.

Nov 22, 2003, 12:30 PM	#22
MichaelConnally I told you once! Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: TX Posts: 2,033	Very nice Ed! Can't wait to see it fly. Mike

Nov 22, 2003, 04:21 PM	#23
Ed Couch Registered User Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: North Richland Hills, Texas USA Posts: 1,495	Thanks Mike, I need somebody to do the hover work for me. Hope you were able to make it at LMRA. Beats hell out of being in bed when I could be out flying. Voice still gone and still tired all the time. Hope this gets better soon. See Ya. ed

Nov 23, 2003, 07:54 PM	#24
tashley Registered Voter Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Right here! Posts: 1,282	Ed, I see you've been bitten by this foam/electric thing too. Who would have thought something so simple could be so much fun. I guess the last time I saw you was at the ARCA's ducted fan meet in Austin back in the eighties and you were campaigning an A-10. Hope you get better soon. Tom

Nov 24, 2003, 04:12 AM	#25
Ed Couch Registered User Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: North Richland Hills, Texas USA Posts: 1,495	Tom, after all the years (28) flying fans and master scale it got to where it was no fun anymore. The indoor electric and parkflyers put the fun back in flying. The cost is relative minimal and you can let the creative juices flow without worrying about the next house or car payment being late. I loved and always will like my jets and the big A10, F84 and others are still here but collecting dust. I just went back to basics and its a whole lot more fun. The Pogo is my first in blue foam as I normally work in carbon fibre or balsa. I've built so many aircraft in the last five years that I can't even start to remember what they are and thats a far cry from one a year at best with my jets. Whatever, its a beautiful way to spend a little down time. And thank you, I'm feeling a lot better over the last few days except I still can't talk, I think the wife kinds of enjoys that and the grandkids are still laughing. ed

Nov 24, 2003, 07:41 AM	#26
tashley Registered Voter Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Right here! Posts: 1,282	Ed, will you be sharing the plans for the Pogo? That really looks like a fun ship. My first endeavor in the flat Depron foam realm is a 3DX, my avatar, and it's been a blast. Originally I opted for the inexpensive route with a GWS 350 brushed motor, but after burning out the first two running on 3s 1200 mAh e-techs I'll be doing the brushless thing soon, probably a Himax. Tom

Nov 24, 2003, 09:59 AM	#27
houfek PittsLover Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 909	Ed..... Incredible work......and a fun one to bring to the modeling world. The Paul Garber facility (Smithsonian's restoration facility) out in Suitland, MD had one in one of their hangers....those are supposed to be moved to the new place at Dulles by next month......it has always been a favorite of mine since I built a plastic Revell kit of it WAY too many years ago !! Now if you can get it with the counter-rotating props, I will be REALLY impressed !!! Hope you are feeling better...... Happy Turkey.... Jim

Nov 24, 2003, 10:44 AM	#28
Ed Couch Registered User Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: North Richland Hills, Texas USA Posts: 1,495	As for plans, lets get the bird working first as a second bird will be required to work out any future plans. As some of you know I love to fly unique aircraft and never really attempt to publish as its for my enjoyment, personal pleasure, nothing more. Bob Wilder is working up a counter rotating GWS system for me for a smaller full bodied version of the bird in the near future so thats probably what would be released. Gary Jones and Mike Connally have profected the tail sitter in the JAR series of birds so the Pogo is basically the same idea put into a scale profile configuration. I cheated and waited for someone else to figure out the problems before I jumped in with the Pogo. The main problem is not the aircraft but the old fart behind the stick, I fly basic choppers once in a while, jets for 28 years, and about any thing that flies but never much cared for hovering 3D work so I have a learning curve to overcome. I'm still only three flights into the development so have a lot of work to do. Maybe I'll be able to put a few more flights on her this weekend if I can still get out. Been down sick since Monday week and I'm going about nuts piddling around the house. Looks like its supposed to get cold tonite so don't see much flying at all until Saturday. Home and don't feel like building, sucks!

Nov 24, 2003, 01:46 PM	#29
ronin8451 E-Flight Addict Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Weatherford, Tx. Posts: 1,227	Looks much better all rigged up , Ed ! We missed you on Friday, hope you get to feeling better.

Nov 24, 2003, 04:05 PM	#30
Ed Couch Registered User Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: North Richland Hills, Texas USA Posts: 1,495	Ronin, hope to be kickin and screamin again soon. Here is a little point of history for myself and the Pogo. Way back in 1970 I was out of Avionics school (NAS Millington, Tenn) going to first posting at NAS Oceana Virginia and got there in January, was scheduled for several secondary schools preculiar to the F-4 B and J models VF-101 was flying at that time and had a couple of days off so I headed in to the Norfolk Naval Air Station to see what aircraft were out front of the admin building. Years before someone had told me the Pogo was a gate guard and danged if it wasn't. It was setting out front of the building with another aircraft of history the Truculant Turtle a PB2Y and across the street along the waterfront was an old Martin Seaplane. Needless to say I was in hog heaven for a long time. Used to visit all the Army, Navy and Air Force bases around the area to look at the various aircraft on parade. But the most exciting was the Pogo. Over the years I've worked on F-8s, A-7s, F-4B/Js, F-16s, F-111s, C-130Js and now the F-22. Been in the business since I was a Freshman in college and I'm 56 and still kickin and hopefully will retire with the F-35 in my pocket.