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Old Sep 06, 2012, 02:11 PM
Lost in the Sky
Richard N's Avatar
Burleson, Texas
Joined Jun 2003
1,932 Posts
Pete,

My father got me started in photography many years ago and I've had a camera with me on every trip and adventure I've been on since. They've always been heavy SLRs and I thought seriously about getting a point and shoot while hiking down the 6 mile 3800 foot descent of the trail from the top of Yosemite Falls with a 40 pound pack and that anchor of a camera. I stopped thinking about it when I compared the difference in picture quality of the shots from my SLR and my nephew's point and shoot.

Here are a few shots from a ride with a friend where the FBO operator didn't want me to take my camera and warned me to hold on to it tight because I would be buying a $2000 canopy if my camera hit it and cracked it.

I've never gotten in trouble having a camera with me and have been in a few cases where I wished I had one and didn't. My camera is my objective hard copy record of my having been somewhere and seen something. Brain researchers have found that we alter our memories every time we access them and I find that I had better write my thoughts down or risk having them drift from the real or fade away for good.

After meeting an English girl who trained polo ponies, I tried riding horses. Didn't like it. Not enough control authority. Horse kept trying to bite me. Didn't try it with a camera.

Your and Larry's HP-8s will be great however you handle the kink. It will be great to see both of them flying.

Richard
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Old Sep 06, 2012, 08:50 PM
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PeteSchug's Avatar
Elmhurst, NY (Queens in NYC)
Joined Apr 2004
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Richard,

I have a Nikon D-90 which is usually on a Bushhawk shoulder stock for shooting birds. Beside my iPad and iPhone I almost always have my Canon S100 with me. It's one of the best point and shoot cameras there is and the pictures are excellent. True I don't have a 500 mm lens on it, but it really is a good camera. I also have a Canon G11 which is a lot smaller than a DSLR but in many ways more versatile. I love the pivoting LCD which enables ground level shooting like an old Rolli or holding overhead if I'm in a crowd and can't get a shot any other way.

Don't underestimate the S100, it's probably way better than your nephew's point and shoot.

Edit: The S100 and the iPhone are almost always with me. Women seem to get along better with horses. It was my main sport for a couple of years, then a built a Windmill class sloop and became a sailor. I definitely never carried a camera in the boat. I did eventually get a Nikonos but that was after my sailing days.

Pete
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Old Sep 07, 2012, 08:28 AM
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Here's a camera i don't carry on horseback or in a plane. In fact, I hate to lug it at all!

I love the BushHawk and use it for both stills and video. I even stick the Canon S100 point and shoot on it for video since it can take 4X slow motion 30 FPS at 640 by 480. I'm mounting a BSA aiming device on the BushHawk to help keep RC models in the frame better than is possible in a viewfinder.

Using viewfinder on RC models often leads to ping ponging the model in the video but I'm hoping that keeping the red dot (or green) on the model or near it will provide more stable video.

And yes! I will carry the S100 flying or on horseback and I want the 4X slow motion specifically because my UM Carbon Cub shot at 4X should look about like the full scale Carbon Cub. I use dynamic scaling calculations and 4X is very close.

Pete
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 09:57 AM
Lost in the Sky
Richard N's Avatar
Burleson, Texas
Joined Jun 2003
1,932 Posts
Pete,

That is a nice rig for distant objects, but like you say it is something you wouldn't want to lug very far.

I have been using a Nikon D300 with a Nikkor 18-200 VR Zoom. At the short end it is wide angle enough to shoot whole airplanes in museums where you are shooting big things and have limited space to back up and get the whole airplane in the frame. At the long end it is good enough for catching most of the action around the flying field between my own flights. It is also compact enough to carry in my lap during airplane rides.

Richard
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 10:14 AM
Lost in the Sky
Richard N's Avatar
Burleson, Texas
Joined Jun 2003
1,932 Posts
Here is a shot of the HP-8 at El Mirage from Moffat's "Winning on the Wind". The original picture was twice as tall and I cropped off the empty sky in the shot. The photographer must have had his camera on the ground to get this angle of view.

Richard
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 01:48 PM
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Elmhurst, NY (Queens in NYC)
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Nice! It shows the way the cockpit part of the fuse joins the tail cone a bit more clearly. Hmm... I wonder if the photographer was using a Rolli or had to lay down on the ground?

There is also a lack of perfect smoothness from the wheel to the nose. Maybe there was a bit of a skid in the front?

At this point I probably have more pictures of the HP-8 than Moffat himself.

Pete
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 02:03 PM
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GeeW's Avatar
ENGLAND
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The forward lower nose looks like it has had several scrapes & bashes from a mixture of enthusiastic use of the wheel brake or off-field landings to me rather than a skid?
Gordon
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 02:23 PM
Lost in the Sky
Richard N's Avatar
Burleson, Texas
Joined Jun 2003
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Moffat from page 5 of his book "Winning on the Wind": "I have made several landings in the desert with my HP-8 which would have reduced a Ka-6 to kindling wood."
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeW View Post
The forward lower nose looks like it has had several scrapes & bashes from a mixture of enthusiastic use of the wheel brake or off-field landings to me rather than a skid?
Gordon
Not likely, if you bashed the un reinforced nose you'd do a lot of damage so if the nose is reinforced it's quite possible that there was a skid of some sort there. With a tall, retractable wheel the CG was almost certainly behind the wheel to keep the nose from hitting the ground. With fifty years elapsed since Moffat was based at Wurtsboro I can't remember the details but it was probably some sort of skid "just in case."

Pete
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard N View Post
Moffat from page 5 of his book "Winning on the Wind": "I have made several landings in the desert with my HP-8 which would have reduced a Ka-6 to kindling wood."
Very possibly because the ground clearance of a Ka-6 is way less than the HP-8. Most ships with retract gear have lots of ground clearance since wheel drag is not a factor. I doubt you could nose over with a tall gear and not do considerable damage.

Just an opinion. I also have to wonder about reportable damage. I forget what the dollar value of reportable damage was, but it was quite low. I know it included sailplanes so did these guys report damage or just sweep it under the rug?

I do remember reading that glider flying had the most reportable damage in general aviation and the lowest fatality rate.

We'll never know unless someone asks Moffat. Word back at Wurtsboro was the guy who bought the HP-8 crashed it very soon after buying it, so even examining the remains (if it ever becomes possible) won't tell the story.

Pete
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 05:02 PM
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Fuselage frames on metal gliders also distort under duress. Go look at a L-13 nose that has been landed out a few times. Often, unless there are control run issues and/or popped rivets they stay that way till the next annual. (Or the owner shoves lots of filler in)
A K6 is OK until you overload the kingplank then the whole nose just unravels or the frames splinter. A very long job. Been there done that, just been asked to do another.
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 09:09 PM
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Elmhurst, NY (Queens in NYC)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeW View Post
Fuselage frames on metal gliders also distort under duress. Go look at a L-13 nose that has been landed out a few times. Often, unless there are control run issues and/or popped rivets they stay that way till the next annual. (Or the owner shoves lots of filler in)
A K6 is OK until you overload the kingplank then the whole nose just unravels or the frames splinter. A very long job. Been there done that, just been asked to do another.
I've seen Moffat put a lot of filler on the wings of the HP-8 but I've never seen him touch the fuse.

Sounds like you've got more practical experience than me but I'll stick to the idea that a nose over with a relatively tall retract gear would do a lot of damage. Maybe there was a rudimentary skid in case of a wheel up landing,

We had a very busy field for many years and somehow we never had anyone do serious damage to anything while I was there. We did have a fatality in Canada very sad to say and the ship was consigned to our dump. Aside from that damage seemed to be hangar rash, and very little of that.

Pete
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 03:17 AM
Lost in the Sky
Richard N's Avatar
Burleson, Texas
Joined Jun 2003
1,932 Posts
HP-8 picture from the Soaring magazine August 1974 Sailplane Directory issue.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 03:38 AM
Lost in the Sky
Richard N's Avatar
Burleson, Texas
Joined Jun 2003
1,932 Posts
Schreder in the HP-8 at the 25th National Soaring Contest at Bishop, CA. This picture is from "Soaring for Daimonds" by Joseph Colville Lincoln.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 05:33 AM
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Elmhurst, NY (Queens in NYC)
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Thanks for posting.

I read Soaring for Diamonds a zillion years ago. I wish I had managed to keep all the soaring books I read down through the years!

When I started flying the FBO had remaindered copies of "On Being a Bird" by Philip Wills in the office. They cost a buck and I bought at least six copies to give to friends. A year or so ago I bought myself a copy for twenty bucks. Still one if the best soaring books I ever read.

Pete
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