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Old Jul 28, 2012, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by prodjx View Post
Ok Larry let's see if I can get this done for you, hope it work's out. The 3-view is probably from Soaring magazine but it's also in my book 10,000 feet and climbing, The avaition adventure's of Richard E. Schreder.
Any chance of you doing a higher res scan?

This is the only 3 view I've ever seen, but the image is a bit coarse and I'd really like something sharper.

If you can't, it's okay, I've enhanced this one a bit and if I build a model it will probably be small since I don't have much room.

BTW, I remember the HP-8 as being a matt white rather than glossy. It's possible that I remember the wings better than the fuse. I never took this ship for granted but now I wish I had looked closer and taken a few pictures back in those days. We had a lot of interesting gliders at Wurtsboro including Derujinski's Sisu, a Skylark 4, a BG-12 as well as several Ka-6's two of which occasionally did aerial ballets for us. No kidding, not even practicing for an air show. Dual takeoffs behind a single tug (probably the 450 Stearman) followed by parallel loops, intertwined steep banked helixes and stuff like that ending in a high speed pass over the runway, a wing over and a landing. I didn't even know the names of guys that did it. They seldom came up and hung around.

LJ, If you read this and find out the colors of the numbers etc. please post the information here. So far this is the ONLY repository of information on this sailplane that I know of.

Pete
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Old Jul 28, 2012, 10:07 AM
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I have a friend that might be able to do it. He does thing's like taking a 3view out of my Sailplane's by Martin Simon's of an Sg-38 and making a laser cut kit of it. BTW it's a 2m. Also I just checked one of Martin's book's to see if the 8 was in there, no luck. I could swear there's a thread on here of 3-view's of glider's. BTW did you ever fly at LISA?
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Old Jul 28, 2012, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by prodjx View Post
I have a friend that might be able to do it. He does thing's like taking a 3view out of my Sailplane's by Martin Simon's of an Sg-38 and making a laser cut kit of it. BTW it's a 2m. Also I just checked one of Martin's book's to see if the 8 was in there, no luck. I could swear there's a thread on here of 3-view's of glider's. BTW did you ever fly at LISA?
I just checked Simon's under USA and New Wings and the HP-8 is in neither place.

I not only haven't flown at LISA, I don't even know what it is.

My full scale career was entirely at Wurtsboro between Aug. '62 and May '74. My model glider flying started at Wurtsboro where I was the first RC'er ever to fly there and continues still at my club field though I don't have a sailplane at present. I designed several non-scale gliders with some success and lost my quarter scale ASW 28-18 to an errant tug on the ground. Pix way back on this forum and on my blog.

Looking forward to anything you can provide. As I said in my previous post, this is the only on line repository of information on the HP-8 that I know of.

Edit: Best guess is that Martin Simons knew of the HP-8 since it held several records but he couldn't find any information either.

Thanks, Pete
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Old Jul 28, 2012, 12:21 PM
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Hey Pete, nice talking to you the other day. Yes the Sun Ship Game is one of the finest films on Soaring ever made. I have decided that once I am in to the project I will try contacting Mr Moffat. I hate to do it without knowing him but I don't know anyone else who would really know. Does anyone know the guys at El Mira?? I am thinking about re-routing one of my return trips through NY and driving out to see if they will let me get a look at the HP-8. Ten minutes with the airplane will tell me what I need to know to get the documentation I need. If I could get Dennis to go with me that would be awesome...He and I have a past history of snap and grab aircraft documentation from when we were doing film work. Don't forget the HP-8 was the glider that Richard Schreder landed in East Germany during 58 world champs. Anybody that can help please jump in. LJ
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Old Jul 28, 2012, 12:37 PM
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Page 234 of Simons' Sailplanes 1945 - 1965 has a reference to the HP-8 including the story of Schreder's landing on the wrong side of the iron curtain, but nothing about the ship itself except that the span given is larger than the forty feet measurement mentioned in the 3 view.

Any elucidation on the two spans? Forty feet would have looked noticeably small so I my guess is that Moffat's had the longer wing, but I don't actually know.

I'm sure that if Simons could have found more data on the HP-8 he would have provided it.

I'd love to go to Elmira myself. I was there once on business but couldn't get a sailplane ride before my flight left. A peek at the HP-8 would be fantastic.

Larry, I don't know if Dick Paggett still flies at Wurtsboro since the last time I saw him was two years ago, but he is an RC modeler and a very fine builder. I heard from him that they fly RC on Thursday evenings at Wurtsboro. He mentioned something about Moffat the last time I saw him, leading me to believe that there is at least grapevine contact.

Pete
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Old Jul 28, 2012, 12:59 PM
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Pete,
I am off to South Africa for 14 days tomorrow for the F3J World Champs.
Do you have contact information for Dick Paggett, I will try to start a dialogue with him via email. I just grabbed this photo from Paul Schweizers Wings Like Eagles. It shows Dick Schreder on the stab of the HP-8. Moffat describes the HP-8 as slab sided, he wasn't kidding. LJ
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Old Jul 28, 2012, 01:07 PM
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I'll see if I can get an email address for Paggett.

Hmm... Gotta get my copy of Wings Like Eagles down and have a look.

Pete
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Old Jul 28, 2012, 01:56 PM
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Now that I've retired, I finally have time to do a bit more work on the Schreder Sailplane Designs website. Both the US and Canadian aircraft databases have been updated and I need to collect pictures/data associated with Dick's early designs.

I stopped by the National Soaring Museum this spring hoping to see the HP-8. As stated in their website, it is being restored and there was only one person at the museum and she was tending the novelty shop. As a result, I didn't get to see it.

If anyone find a good picture, I'd like for them to email me a copy.

Wayne
http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/


Quote:
Originally Posted by prodjx View Post
Ok Larry let's see if I can get this done for you, hope it work's out. The 3-view is probably from Soaring magazine but it's also in my book 10,000 feet and climbing, The avaition adventure's of Richard E. Schreder.
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Old Jul 28, 2012, 03:28 PM
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Pete, LISA stand's for Long Island Soaring Assoc. I was a member in the early 70's. LISA was based out of Bayport LI and then and still at Brookhaven Airpt. I think they've been around for 50 year's. gunny11 here on the group's is the son of the man I took my first ride with prior to joining LISA.
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Old Jul 28, 2012, 06:51 PM
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Thanks prodjx,

I know Gunny, I started a 2-33 but stopped when sciatica intervened. The workbench in my flying buddy's shop is currently occupied by a 1/3rd scale J-3 that will probably live there forever.

I never particularly liked flying the 2-33 but it's a very nice model and if I ever get it finished I want to stick a video cam in the cockpit.

I'd love to try aerotow via video, with a safety pilot of course in case of unforeseen problems or loss of video.

It might be easier than conventional model aerotow and it would also make a very nice video. It would be extra great if I could find a pellet vario to stick where the cam can see it!

Back to the subject. There seem to be almost no pictures of the HP-8. I'm wondering if Moffat has any. He's up in Mass someplace but I couldn't get a phone number or email acct. in a very short search. (asked one old timer)

Pete
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Old Jul 28, 2012, 11:31 PM
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Very interesting discussion!

I built a (very) stand-off scale micro-sized (1/15 scale) HP-8 for pitcheron control a few months ago, and found a few colour photos online, plus a lot of pics in the old Soaring archives. These may be of assistance:

Cheers,

Graham
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Old Jul 28, 2012, 11:42 PM
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A couple of pics of my 1/15 scale micro fleet: HP-8, Blanik and Fouga CM-08:
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Old Jul 29, 2012, 12:27 AM
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Thanks Graham,

Larry Jolly has been trying to find out the colours of the registration and racing numbers so these pictures are really great.

I think you just quadrupled our available information.

BTW, I am also planning on a small version for a first model. I'm planning to carve the fuse so I'll go a little smaller than you and will increase the chord just a bit. The main reason for going smaller is the wood I have on hand.

Edit: Just noticed that the magazine pictures include data on the source. Thanks again for the great research. I'll probably download the issues and read the articles.

Pete
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Old Jul 29, 2012, 01:20 AM
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My pleasure, Pete.

FYI, 1/15 scale gave me a root chord of only 2 inches (!), and a span of 1 metre. I don't even want to think about what the Reynolds numbers are doing at the tip!

A few more pictures I found of the full size:

Cheers,

Graham
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Old Jul 29, 2012, 02:43 AM
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Thanks again Graham,

I especially like the view from underneath the HP-8 showing the racing number on the bottom of the wing. Good scale detail.

Yeah, I know what you mean concerning Reynold's numbers. Oddly enough, I think I first heard of Reynold's numbers from Moffat, including a shortcut way of calculating them and a rough guide to where models start to diverge from full sized aircraft in performance.

Pete
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