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Old Oct 19, 2012, 11:53 AM
3D Hack
JC Spohr's Avatar
United States, IL, Glen Carbon
Joined Jul 2010
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I think motor selection is a significant factor.

I have a Suppo A2810-1000kv (78g) with ZTW 40A turning APC 12x6 E on Nanotech 3S 1800's.

Feels very light and floaty to me. Flies very precise like balsa. Lots of power. 7-8 minute flight times depending on how hard I wring it out.

JC

edit - My plane weighs 27 oz (765g)
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 02:37 PM
3d Kiwi
uptime4downtime's Avatar
New Zealand
Joined Dec 2007
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I'm going to start with the light motor and see how I go
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 08:11 PM
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toolman18's Avatar
United States, TX, Portland
Joined Apr 2008
248 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Smart View Post
Well I maidened mine today and put five 1800 packs through it.

Specs are:-

AXI 2814/16 (106gm) with 11 x 5.5E & 12 x 3.8SF props
Jeti Advance 40 Pro SB ESC
Nano Tech 1800 3s lipo
4 Savox SH0255 metal gear digital servos (16gm)

It weighs in at a whopping 800gms and my C of G is at 105mm from the LE.
I can confirm that it does fly more like balsa although I'm not sure if that is simply due to the fact that it flies a lot faster than my Telinks, most likely due to the weight. I chose to replace the Kevlar thread for the rudder control with nylon covered fishing trace, as I am aware from previous RC Factory models I have had, that the stuff they provide goes slack in our damp UK weather. It was damp today, in fact raining some of the time I was flying and no such problem with the fishing trace.
On balance, I think I prefer the 12 x 3.8SF prop, it certainly hovers more easily with this as opposed to the 11 x 5.5E.

My verdict, better than the Telinks in some respects, it is very positive and accurate, but worse in others, too heavy for a foamie for my liking. It doesn't feel as 'locked-in' in knife edge as my Extra Slick and it drops its nose quite sharply on a rudder only turn, whereas the Slick will do this level.
One of my favourite manoeuvres with the Telinks is a 'death slide' (steep KE descent with little power) and they do this with confidence. The SBach on the other hand has this really weird trait of losing direction when slowed right down in KE and ultimately flipping inverted despite my bet efforts to stop it.
Not too impressed with the U/C either, it deflects way too much for my liking on landing. With the 12" prop on, it can touch the ground.

So, mixed feelings to be honest.

Mike
Weird. I have none of the problems you speak of. Mine is really locked in during knife edge turns. I run 12x6 now. Its my new go to prop. I am running the Omega 103. 1600 55C batteries. I have never had this plane flip inverted unexpectadly. It only flips inverted when i tell it to. I can easily do the death slide. It can slow down to a crawl and look very good with very little input other than rudder. I wonder if you should check your wing incidence. Just a thought. A few of us fly these at the club and i have never heard one bad thing said. I also dont like the string so i switched to carbon rod and have no issues. Hope you figure out what is going on.
Brad
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 09:24 PM
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USA, FL, St Petersburg
Joined Dec 2003
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Dropping the nose during a rudder only turn means that the plane needs some mixing. You have to try turns left and right as some planes need different mixes with elevator and ailerons to rudder to make it turn flat.

Any time a plane loses direction in knife edge and flips inverted usually points to a balance issue, either too nose heavy or too tail heavy.

The Sbach I have flown has absolutely no issues like you describe.

I hope the mixing and balance information helps!
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 09:54 PM
3d Kiwi
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New Zealand
Joined Dec 2007
3,118 Posts
Yes, I'm really hoping it works out. It will be almost $300 by the time it gets to New Zealand and gets all the goodies installed. I will certainly be posting a flight report. I'll use a light motor that I have on a Telink, and the up it to something larger as a comparison.
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 10:22 PM
3D Hack
JC Spohr's Avatar
United States, IL, Glen Carbon
Joined Jul 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenelder View Post
Dropping the nose during a rudder only turn means that the plane needs some mixing. You have to try turns left and right as some planes need different mixes with elevator and ailerons to rudder to make it turn flat.

Any time a plane loses direction in knife edge and flips inverted usually points to a balance issue, either too nose heavy or too tail heavy.

The Sbach I have flown has absolutely no issues like you describe.

I hope the mixing and balance information helps!
Mike,

I really think you are nose heavy. The condition you describe with rudder turns has happened to me with other foamies - they were all nose heavy and once I moved the cg rearward, the nose drop trait went away.

JC
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 11:11 PM
3d Kiwi
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New Zealand
Joined Dec 2007
3,118 Posts
Was thinking this for a 70g motor at max 330W
Turnigy D2836/8 1100KV

Seems almost too light at 70g,
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ner_Motor.html
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 11:18 PM
3D Hack
JC Spohr's Avatar
United States, IL, Glen Carbon
Joined Jul 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uptime4downtime View Post
Was thinking this for a 70g motor at max 330W
Turnigy D2836/8 1100KV

Seems almost too light at 70g,
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ner_Motor.html
Weight seems to be low for a 2836 motor. Wrong weight listed on HK site? Highly likely!

Also, max amps is 18.

I'd pass on this motor.

If you can't get the Twisted motor, then I suggest a Suppo A2810 1100kv or 1000kv.

JC
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 01:57 AM
3d Kiwi
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New Zealand
Joined Dec 2007
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I should have spotted that - Max amps 18 is a no go for sure. Yes, something wrong there. I'll pass. I will look into that Suppo
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 04:27 AM
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Mike Smart's Avatar
Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire, Great Britain (UK)
Joined Jan 2000
3,043 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JC Spohr View Post
Mike,

I really think you are nose heavy. The condition you describe with rudder turns has happened to me with other foamies - they were all nose heavy and once I moved the cg rearward, the nose drop trait went away.

JC
Thanks guys, I too suspected nose heavy, but it is hands off upright and inverted, so maybe I need to check incidences or the ailerons neutral location. Rain stopped play yesterday but I will experiment with a different C of G location when the weather cooperates.

Mike
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 05:42 AM
3d Kiwi
uptime4downtime's Avatar
New Zealand
Joined Dec 2007
3,118 Posts
Well, I think i may just pull the trigger on teh Turnigy 103g motor as I think I'd rather have the power to pull out, plus I like a bit of speed. If she is too much of a porker, I'll downgrade. I too am going to run carbon for the rudder
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 08:17 AM
Don't give in to gravity
Gravitycheat's Avatar
USA, FL, Palm Harbor
Joined Dec 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Smart View Post
Well I maidened mine today and put five 1800 packs through it.

Specs are:-

AXI 2814/16 (106gm) with 11 x 5.5E & 12 x 3.8SF props
Jeti Advance 40 Pro SB ESC
Nano Tech 1800 3s lipo
4 Savox SH0255 metal gear digital servos (16gm)

It weighs in at a whopping 800gms and my C of G is at 105mm from the LE.
I can confirm that it does fly more like balsa although I'm not sure if that is simply due to the fact that it flies a lot faster than my Telinks, most likely due to the weight. I chose to replace the Kevlar thread for the rudder control with nylon covered fishing trace, as I am aware from previous RC Factory models I have had, that the stuff they provide goes slack in our damp UK weather. It was damp today, in fact raining some of the time I was flying and no such problem with the fishing trace.
On balance, I think I prefer the 12 x 3.8SF prop, it certainly hovers more easily with this as opposed to the 11 x 5.5E.

My verdict, better than the Telinks in some respects, it is very positive and accurate, but worse in others, too heavy for a foamie for my liking. It doesn't feel as 'locked-in' in knife edge as my Extra Slick and it drops its nose quite sharply on a rudder only turn, whereas the Slick will do this level.
One of my favourite manoeuvres with the Telinks is a 'death slide' (steep KE descent with little power) and they do this with confidence. The SBach on the other hand has this really weird trait of losing direction when slowed right down in KE and ultimately flipping inverted despite my bet efforts to stop it.
Not too impressed with the U/C either, it deflects way too much for my liking on landing. With the 12" prop on, it can touch the ground.

So, mixed feelings to be honest.

Mike
Mike,

Sorry to hear you are having unwanted issues with you r Sbach. I think the set up advise offered in the last few posts should help to refine your set up for a much better flying experieance.

The death slide is one of my signiture moves> I love the death slide down to the deck and then flip it over on the landing gear at the last moment. My Sbach performs this move as well or better than amy of my other planes.

As far as your KE issues, I would agree that you have a balance problem. I have not put any mixes in mine and it does a good KE. It could use some mixing (like most planes) but I have just been to lazy to do it.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Shawn
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 08:32 AM
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RonJ's Avatar
Sparta,WI,USA
Joined Nov 2000
1,622 Posts
Maiden SBach Crash

Finally finished up the SBach and yesterday was a perfect day to maiden it.
Running the 100g motor on 3S-2200 swinging a 12 x 6 TH prop (awsome power with this set up).

Take off perfect, no trim necessary. Did all the nice gentle stuff and then switched to high rates to tighten up a loop. The loop turned into a figure "9" as it would not pull out of the loop[. Upon examination it was discovered that the "Z" bend on the elevator had broken at the bend. No elevator control. Suggest you check the factory "Z" bends, especially on the critical elevator.

Thanks to the wonder of EPP and Welders everything is back togeather and you cannot tell it was ever crashed. The elevator "Z" bend ws replaced with a short piece of threaded rod wrapped to the CF pushrod with kevlar thread and a drop or two of thin CA. I then installed a metal clevis on the threaded rod and then cut a small length of fuel tubeing to keep the clevis closed on the control horn. Hope this will handle the power produced by this set up.
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 12:07 PM
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Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire, Great Britain (UK)
Joined Jan 2000
3,043 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravitycheat View Post
Mike,

Sorry to hear you are having unwanted issues with you r Sbach. I think the set up advise offered in the last few posts should help to refine your set up for a much better flying experieance.

The death slide is one of my signiture moves> I love the death slide down to the deck and then flip it over on the landing gear at the last moment. My Sbach performs this move as well or better than amy of my other planes.

As far as your KE issues, I would agree that you have a balance problem. I have not put any mixes in mine and it does a good KE. It could use some mixing (like most planes) but I have just been to lazy to do it.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Shawn
I have been out this afternoon with it again, checked the neutral of the ailerons, moved the battery pack quite a long way and the C of G is now 115mm from the LE. It flies hands off inverted and upright and the dive test is spot on as far as I can tell, so I think I have the C of G right.
There is some improvement, but it is still nervous in KE and still flips out in a death slide. A full rudder turn still makes the nose drop sharply, so I'm still a bit lost to be honest
Out of interest, do you guys have the SFG's fitted to the wings?

Mike
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 12:54 PM
3D Hack
JC Spohr's Avatar
United States, IL, Glen Carbon
Joined Jul 2010
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Yes - SFG's on...

JC
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