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Old Sep 28, 2012, 07:17 PM
3d addict
United States, NY, Rochester
Joined May 2011
1,038 Posts
Got in 2 flights tonight. Lots of fun. Finally getting the hang of this thing. Was able to keep it in a hover for a bit tonight as I wanted but still struggling to get stable harriers. Pretty sure it's just my flying but I just can't get it locked in. Spent some time just trying to fly nice and smooth with 4 point rolls and slow rolls and its all feeling a lot better. Getting everything all charged up and hoping to put in a real good handful of flights on it tomorrow. Such a cool plane to fly.

I do have the minor roll at full throttle but I just fly thru it and since I'm rarely at full throttle I don't even notice it any other time.
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 10:39 AM
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bmschulman's Avatar
United States, NY, New York
Joined Oct 2006
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Originally Posted by 3171scott View Post
The reasion matters for the fact that servos torque is raited at two voltages 4.8 and 6 volt. So if you are looking to get the max out of your servos you need 6 volts.
Thanks for the explanation. Is there a perception that the servos at 4.8 aren't providing enough torque for this airframe's control surfaces during typical flight?
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 12:05 PM
fly and then fly some more!
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Springdale, AR
Joined Dec 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmschulman View Post
Thanks for the explanation. Is there a perception that the servos at 4.8 aren't providing enough torque for this airframe's control surfaces during typical flight?
it is a possibility we are looking into. if your esc can put out 6V, then I would set it to do that if you can just to be safe. more torque is always better.
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 06:45 PM
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United States, FL, Marianna
Joined Apr 2011
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Originally Posted by nickelbn1 View Post
it is a possibility we are looking into. if your esc can put out 6V, then I would set it to do that if you can just to be safe. more torque is always better.
I was using a castle ice50 and had my BEC set to 6.0v (2x hs65hb aileron/2x hs65mg tail). Still had blow back and adverse roll.
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 07:58 PM
fly and then fly some more!
nickelbn1's Avatar
Springdale, AR
Joined Dec 2006
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Originally Posted by dentalpain View Post
I was using a castle ice50 and had my BEC set to 6.0v (2x hs65hb aileron/2x hs65mg tail). Still had blow back and adverse roll.
good to know. I was betting it wasnt the servo torque causing the problem. about the only thing left now that would explain this is the hinges. too large of gaps between hinges. I guess I will add some hinges and see what happens.
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 09:42 PM
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United States, OH, Youngstown
Joined Apr 2011
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Originally Posted by dentalpain View Post
I was using a castle ice50 and had my BEC set to 6.0v (2x hs65hb aileron/2x hs65mg tail). Still had blow back and adverse roll.
if you are getting blowback with HS 65's at 6 volts there is something wrong there. Something is not set up right! There is no possible way a 35oz airplane with 18inch control surface’s is overpowering a servo with that much torque. What size arms are you using? I have built 4 of them and have seen 3 others and none of them are having these issues.

As for the roll issue its in the wing and how the ailerons are set up, if you were not able to get the wing straightened out correctly before gluing it will never be right.

Please post some pics of the servos and linkages, i would realy like to see them.

Something is not making sense hopefully we can figure it out,

Scott.
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Old Sep 30, 2012, 12:18 AM
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Australia, SA, Adelaide
Joined Jul 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3171scott View Post
if you are getting blowback with HS 65's at 6 volts there is something wrong there. Something is not set up right! There is no possible way a 35oz airplane with 18inch control surface’s is overpowering a servo with that much torque. What size arms are you using? I have built 4 of them and have seen 3 others and none of them are having these issues.

As for the roll issue its in the wing and how the ailerons are set up, if you were not able to get the wing straightened out correctly before gluing it will never be right.

Please post some pics of the servos and linkages, i would realy like to see them.

Something is not making sense hopefully we can figure it out,

Scott.
I agree, the control surfaces on the edge are well within size for 65mg's and similar servos, even at 4.8 or 5V. This class of servos are used on biggr planes / surfaces than this, up to 50" winspan.. plus these ailerons are pretty light. It must be something else causing the unresponsiveness at 50% + throttle.

I do think the wing should, in most cases, still be able to be successfully straighted with the wing glued in though.. going by my 2 twisted wings, the twist is pretty constant from wing tip to wing tip, so the part of the twist trapped between 2 sides of the fuse is very minimal.. with the servo arms removed the wing can still be twisted with hands placed evenly apart, and 'massaged' straight working around the spar.. I have adjusted mine successfully and easily in both directions with the wing in, and it's very easy to do, while checking TE and LE for straightness etc etc. the outcome may be slightly different than with the wing out, but if this plane is all straight by eye, it should fly really well still.. close enough to flying straight

I do hope too Nickelbn that it can be sorted out.. good on ya for persisting.. might as well eh.. i stll suspect that the linkages have someting to do with it..

.. yesterday I was thinking that the nylon (or similar) control horns come with holes that need enlargening to take the rods. I had to cut the hole quite a bit before i got nice bind-free movement.. I say "cut" as drilling doesn't work well with nylon.. a smaller than required drill bit just slips against the nylon and doesn't bite at all side on.. best thing to use would probably be a small round needle file, but I used a 1.5mm drill bit, pushing and 'cutting' the hole larger, being careful to stop short and leave it slop-free..
I went for z-bends both ends as the supplied ezi-connectors looked like more that could go wrong..

that's something to check maybe.. the manual asks for you to make your own z-bend using pliers (my z-bend pliers cracked the rods as they are hardened)..
I wonder if people have checked the shape of the z-bends and their connection with the horns at all levels of deflection..

Also I found I needed to bend the last end section of the z-bend ( very end of the rod) outward 10 or 15 degrees to keep it clear of rubbing against the side of the horn.. on one or 2 surfaces.. have people checked that for binding?

anyone else got any ideas?
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Old Sep 30, 2012, 08:11 AM
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United States, FL, Marianna
Joined Apr 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3171scott View Post
if you are getting blowback with HS 65's at 6 volts there is something wrong there. Something is not set up right! There is no possible way a 35oz airplane with 18inch control surface’s is overpowering a servo with that much torque. What size arms are you using? I have built 4 of them and have seen 3 others and none of them are having these issues.

As for the roll issue its in the wing and how the ailerons are set up, if you were not able to get the wing straightened out correctly before gluing it will never be right.

Please post some pics of the servos and linkages, i would realy like to see them.

Something is not making sense hopefully we can figure it out,

Scott.
I didn't mean to start a discussion, just add a data point. The plane has been shelved and is no longer flown. I can get a picture after the weekend.

Could this blow back be the aileron is too thin? I think the control horn area was extending properly and fully yet the edge of the aileron was getting blown back. There only seem to be two or three defenders left here and I don't think you guys have conseeded and positions here so I'm not going to try.

Edit: scratch the pics, the servos were removed.
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Old Sep 30, 2012, 12:53 PM
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Springdale, AR
Joined Dec 2006
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ok, I think after my testing today I have this all figured out. So, here is a summery of what I have done to date to test all this and what hasnt worked and what FINALLY worked today.

#1 Original setup. 4 Solar A107MG servos. Wing was installed and ailerons installed before wing twist issue was known and figured out. Linkages were later found to be way too tight on all servos. Maiden flight showed bad right wing drop and unresponsive left aileron at anything about 50% throttle.

#2, swapped servos on the aileron, still same issue.

#3, loosed all servo linkages after finding out they were too tight, everything now nice and loose. still same problem. Wing has been twisted now numerous times, still has right wing drop problem.

#4, Decided to reinforce ailerons with balsa to see if they were too flimsy at higher speeds. Did a criss cross patteron and they were definitely stiffer. more twisting of the wing, even harder this time. FINALLY got a straight and level flight for 2 flights, so continued testing aileron issue. STILL unresponsive left aileron and even barely responsive right aileron at higher then 50% throttle or doing hammerheads. the faster I got going nose down, the slower it rolled until it eventually stopped rolling. 2 flights, same issue even though no more right wing drop.

#5, bought some Hitec HS65MG servos. installed them and changed nothing else. linkages set up the same way as before. Tested today with 2-3mph winds. right wing drop was back again, but not too bad. Did hammerheads and full throttle at least 50% of the time and no matter what I did, ailerons worked FINE! 2nd flight twisted wing some more, now level flight again, and ailerons worked fine entire time at full speed and nose down dives.

CONCLUSION: Others on here have used the Hitec HS65MG servos even at 6V and still had unresponsive ailerons at higher speeds. Several others. so I do not feel that the Solar servos were the SOLE issue. From all my testing, I conclude that in MY case, the aileron issue was due to the ailerons being too flexible and flexing too much at higher speeds, AND, the Solar servos were not holding and blowing back. If any of you out there are using Hitec servos and are having this aileron issue, I suggest reinforcing the ailerons to make them stiffer. I never did add hinges although I am sure that is still a good idea. Upon further study, I do see the Solar A107 servos are rated at 22oz of torque at 4.8V vs the Hitec at 25oz. So the hitec does have a little more torque. The Solar D654mg would have been a better choice and may work out being digital and rated at 27oz of torque at 4.8V.

There, my testing is complete and I dont believe there is any more to figure out. I have done all I can on this plane and I believe I have figured out all the issues that are known.

Now time to move on to a EF 48" Edge 540 and fly something that actually flies as it should without having to twist and reinforce things. Hope this helps others out there. I have done a lot of work to figure this all out.
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Old Sep 30, 2012, 06:01 PM
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jsmith285's Avatar
Fort Wayne
Joined Feb 2009
4,727 Posts
Required Equipment:

Power System:

Omega 72g 1100KV Lightweight Setup
Use with 11x5.5 prop and 3S 1000-1600mah lipo.

Omega 103g 1030KV More Power Setup
Use with a 12x6 prop and 3S 1000-1600mah lipo.


ESC

Use AirBoss 45A or Hacker X55 or Castle ICE Lite 50A.

Servos:

Qty. 4 Hitec HS-65MG

All the edges flying at the huck fest had no aileron reinforcements.
And people flew them day and night and had a blast.
Hope this information is helpful also.
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Old Sep 30, 2012, 07:18 PM
fly and then fly some more!
nickelbn1's Avatar
Springdale, AR
Joined Dec 2006
2,178 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmith285 View Post
Required Equipment:

Power System:

Omega 72g 1100KV Lightweight Setup
Use with 11x5.5 prop and 3S 1000-1600mah lipo.

Omega 103g 1030KV More Power Setup
Use with a 12x6 prop and 3S 1000-1600mah lipo.


ESC

Use AirBoss 45A or Hacker X55 or Castle ICE Lite 50A.

Servos:

Qty. 4 Hitec HS-65MG

All the edges flying at the huck fest had no aileron reinforcements.
And people flew them day and night and had a blast.
Hope this information is helpful also.
perhaps you did not read my post and a few posts back from dentalpain. SEVERAL OTHERS have used the HS65MG servos and are having the SAME ISSUE WITH AILERONS NOT RESPONDING AT HIGHER SPEEDS.

For some reason, SOME people are having this issue, even with the recommended servos......
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Old Sep 30, 2012, 07:40 PM
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Joined Apr 2008
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Dump the piece of ---- and move on Nick. I did and will never buy another plane from 3DHS again ... Their refusal to post review of this plane. good or bad reviews, is an indication that they don't give a ---. Where is my Calvin Pee On Decal!
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Old Sep 30, 2012, 07:42 PM
fly and then fly some more!
nickelbn1's Avatar
Springdale, AR
Joined Dec 2006
2,178 Posts
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Originally Posted by chopper62 View Post
Dump the piece of ---- and move on Nick. I did and will never buy another plane from 3DHS again ... Their refusal to post review of this plane. good or bad reviews, is an indication that they don't give a ---. Where is my Calvin Pee On Decal!
i plan on it. as said i am about to get a EF plane.
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Old Sep 30, 2012, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by nickelbn1 View Post
i plan on it. as said i am about to get a EF plane.
You will like Extreme Flight. I've just recently bought two EF since I was turned off by ... no going to mention them.
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Old Sep 30, 2012, 08:09 PM
"Get off the runway!"
Da Big_G's Avatar
United States, TX, Hutto
Joined May 2012
536 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickelbn1 View Post
perhaps you did not read my post and a few posts back from dentalpain. SEVERAL OTHERS have used the HS65MG servos and are having the SAME ISSUE WITH AILERONS NOT RESPONDING AT HIGHER SPEEDS.

For some reason, SOME people are having this issue, even with the recommended servos......
Flew mine again today, had to twist the wings twice in 8 flights. I also am using the HS65MG servos. Even when it tracks good at speed, the roll rate to the right is good. It will not roll to the left. This will also be my last 3DHS purchase.
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