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Old Sep 04, 2012, 11:53 PM
When in doubt, gas it!
KTMRacr's Avatar
United States, KS, Spring Hill
Joined Dec 2010
933 Posts
I didn't see where 3171Scott was bashing you for not using Hitec servos. In fact, he never used the word Hitec.

You have said several times that you can't afford to buy the recommended or extra equipment to do troubleshooting, and I think that is most of the problem right there. This hobby ain't cheap, at least, not if you want a top of the line high performance airplane to fly. I mean no offense, but if you bought stuff for this plane and don't have any left over for anything else then maybe you should have bought something with an overall lower cost so you have some buffer in there. Reminds me of when I bought my '88 RX7 before thinking about it, then realized that it chews up tires quickly and I couldn't hardly afford to put new ones on it every year (I won't even mention the insurance cost for a two door, two seat, TURBO, for a single male in their twenties... Ouch)!

If you are going to experiment with lesser equipment, then buy extras (always). I've been buying the New Power servos for my smaller foamie planes. So far they have worked pretty good. I had one that I was using on an elevator that burned up in flight and caused a crash (luckily an easily repairable one). And I've had another that developed a jitter that I swapped out for a new one (that I had already purchased when I bought the first lot of them). Not bad considering I probably have almost 30 of those servos. I've also bought 6 Hitec HS-45s and had problems with three of them. Never had a problem with anything bigger than that. But I still have extras laying around. I've skimped before on motors and ESCs too. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it causes headache, and sometimes it costs more in the long run to experiment than it would have if I started with "the good stuff". And that isn't even bringing up the argument that skimping on equipment increases the chance of an in flight failure that totals the whole plane. My rule of thumb is, if I had to "save up money" to buy a plane, then I generally won't skimp very much on equipping it and will go with known good stuff.

One more thing, just because someone else got 4 good performing Solar or New Power servos doesn't mean YOU will. Buy extras and be willing to deal with the consequences of going "on the cheap".

All I think is trying to be said here is, experiment at your own risk, and only if you are up for the challenge (and headache if it bothers you) of troubleshooting when it ain't working right.
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 06:53 AM
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jsmith285's Avatar
Fort Wayne
Joined Feb 2009
4,727 Posts
---------- straw man argument------------------ LOL
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Last edited by jsmith285; Sep 05, 2012 at 08:36 AM. Reason: No one learned from it, so it was a waist of time and didn't want anyone else waisting their time, sorry I waisted mine
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 07:10 AM
3d addict
United States, NY, Rochester
Joined May 2011
1,038 Posts
I have come to learn that my planes will never fly like the ones in the videos. Mostly because my thumbs just don't work that well regardless of equipment chosen.
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 07:35 AM
fly and then fly some more!
nickelbn1's Avatar
Springdale, AR
Joined Dec 2006
2,178 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by KTMRacr View Post
I didn't see where 3171Scott was bashing you for not using Hitec servos. In fact, he never used the word Hitec.
He quoted my post talking about needing to get other servos and then went off on me about how if i cant afford the proper equipment.....so yeah, he was talking about me not getting hitec servos. what else would he be talking about? everything else I have on the plane is the recommended equipment. Before I even bought this plane, I was on here talking to people about this plane and asking questions and several people on here were going with Solar servos, go back and look. in fact, most everyone on here at the time were talking about using servos other then the recommended Hitec ones. So why was I to think that I HAD to use Hitec when many others were not using them? I did my research and asked questions and since others were using the Solars and recommended them, I decided to go that route. I have read in several other forums where people were die hard Hitec users and then they used something cheaper like the Solars and thought that they performed just as well and then stated they would never go back to Hitec and spend all that money for nothing. So it all depends on who you choose to listen to. I have read and read and read about servos and other stuff trying to learn the best I can, and from what I have read, it just depends on who you listen to. I read about it both ways, some love Hitec, some dont like Hitec. Some love TP batteries, some think they are a waste of money, etc etc. so when I read stories both ways, who do I listen to? It's just a choice I have to make and it could turn out to be a bad choice either way. Again, hit or miss. Now, if I were to bet money on which servo would more then likely work out the best for me, then I would bet on Hitec, but again, I hear stories both ways. So please dont claim that I dont do my research and act like I am being an idiot or something. I have never on here blamed this plane or the manufacturer for my left aileron not being responsive at times. I knew it was more then likely a error on my part with how i set it up or my servos I chose to use. I have stated that before on here. My only blame on this plane has been the right roll issue, which I still have badly by the way and so do several others.
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 08:08 AM
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dentalpain's Avatar
United States, FL, Marianna
Joined Apr 2011
860 Posts
We can talk about equipment and setup all day (and it is important). The fact of the matter is this plane has a twisted wing (that wasnt twisted in the prototypes). That will make it fly wrong no matter what equipment is used.

For those that say its no big deal, just twist the wing back...lets see what happens if the next few airframes released from 3dhs have this same manufacturing defect. I bet this "twist" becomes big deal when people look elsewhere for airframes and more customers feel screwed out of their money. Say what you want but I expect more from 3dhs.

Nick, this is called the straw man argument...they are raising the servo issue (which is legit) when the bigger problem lies with the manufacturing defect (credit given to scott s. for admitting their may be a problem even if he had not witnessed it personally.)

Definition: A straw man argument is a rhetorical device that is meant to easily prove that one’s position or argument is superior to an opposing argument. However, the straw man argument is regarded as a logical fallacy, because at its core, the person using the device misrepresents the other person's argument. The person does this because it then becomes easier to knock down the weaker version of the opposing argument with one's more substantial counter argument. link
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 08:19 AM
fly and then fly some more!
nickelbn1's Avatar
Springdale, AR
Joined Dec 2006
2,178 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dentalpain View Post
We can talk about equipment and setup all day (and it is important). The fact of the matter is this plane has a twisted wing (that wasnt twisted in the prototypes). That will make it fly wrong no matter what equipment is used.

For those that say its no big deal, just twist the wing back...lets see what happens if the next few airframes released from 3dhs have this same manufacturing defect. I bet this "twist" becomes big deal when people look elsewhere for airframes and more customers feel screwed out of their money. Say what you want but I expect more from 3dhs.

Nick, this is called the straw man argument...they are raising the servo issue (which is legit) when the bigger problem lies with the manufacturing defect (credit given to scott s. for admitting their may be a problem even if he had not witnessed it personally.)
I agree
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 09:20 AM
Registered User
United States, MN
Joined Feb 2011
4,371 Posts
Just curious, has no one submitted a review on the 3DHS site or are they filtering out all the bad reviews?
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 09:37 AM
"Get off the runway!"
Da Big_G's Avatar
United States, TX, Hutto
Joined May 2012
539 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dentalpain View Post
We can talk about equipment and setup all day (and it is important). The fact of the matter is this plane has a twisted wing (that wasnt twisted in the prototypes). That will make it fly wrong no matter what equipment is used.

For those that say its no big deal, just twist the wing back...lets see what happens if the next few airframes released from 3dhs have this same manufacturing defect. I bet this "twist" becomes big deal when people look elsewhere for airframes and more customers feel screwed out of their money. Say what you want but I expect more from 3dhs.

Nick, this is called the straw man argument...they are raising the servo issue (which is legit) when the bigger problem lies with the manufacturing defect (credit given to scott s. for admitting their may be a problem even if he had not witnessed it personally.)
Agreed. I used expensive MG hi-tech servos...funny how the plane still fly's like crap. The twist fix only lasted 1 day. The e-mail response I received from 3DHS told me everything I needed to know about their concern (or lack thereof) about quality control. I spend a good deal of $$$$ on this hobby. How I am treated by a vendor tells me whether or not they will see any future purchases from me. And I was going to buy a big Slick.
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 09:44 AM
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United States, FL, Marianna
Joined Apr 2011
860 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Big_G View Post
Agreed. I used expensive MG hi-tech servos...funny how the plane still fly's like crap. The twist fix only lasted 1 day. The e-mail response I received from 3DHS told me everything I needed to know about their concern (or lack thereof) about quality control. I spend a good deal of $$$$ on this hobby. How I am treated by a vendor tells me whether or not they will see any future purchases from me. And I was going to buy a big Slick.
And I would have pre-ordered the biper...I think I'll wait for the reviews.
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 09:48 AM
fly and then fly some more!
nickelbn1's Avatar
Springdale, AR
Joined Dec 2006
2,178 Posts
I was planning on getting a 47" shp from them in the future, but now....
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 10:00 AM
"Get off the runway!"
Da Big_G's Avatar
United States, TX, Hutto
Joined May 2012
539 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by grimbeaver View Post
Just curious, has no one submitted a review on the 3DHS site or are they filtering out all the bad reviews?
I just submitted one. We'll see if it shows up. I see no prior reviews.
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 10:03 AM
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United States, FL, Marianna
Joined Apr 2011
860 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickelbn1 View Post
I was planning on getting a 47" shp from them in the future, but now....
Dont fear, this is a great airframe and is well tested. As of 2 weeks ago they are not including the proper pull pull hardware. Make sure to request some threaded brass rods to complete the rudder setup. I bet they will include some extras is you leave a note on your order.
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 10:06 AM
inverted-i-fly
3drcparts's Avatar
United States, CA, Petaluma
Joined Mar 2011
4,388 Posts
update, I re-set up my hs-65mg on the ailerons, twisted my wing and got it flying OK, it still needed a bunch of trim and it still rolls right, but setting up the servos with 150/150 endpoints and moving in the link on the arm help a ton. But.................I just don't like it, you are constantly chasing it's bad behavior. A shame because I have or have owned a bunch of 3dhs planes (42/51 slicks, 48 edge, 48 epp, 38 epp slick, 34 epp edge, 47 osiris, 47 shp) and they are all great planes.
What I have decided is I'm through with foam, balsa flys better and it flys better consistently, sure foam is a bit easier to fix, but I never get it back to 100% after a crash and the flight characteristics continue to change over time as the foam become softer.
my 48 edge has well over 300 flights been crashed/repair 3 times and it flys as good as it did on day one.

Although I'm bit upset at the lack CS from 3DHS on this plane, I don't expect a refund, it just not how this hobby works, I just won't buy another foam plane from them.

the vyper bipe however is on it's way
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 10:07 AM
fly and then fly some more!
nickelbn1's Avatar
Springdale, AR
Joined Dec 2006
2,178 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dentalpain View Post
Dont fear, this is a great airframe and is well tested. As of 2 weeks ago they are not including the proper pull pull hardware. Make sure to request some threaded brass rods to complete the rudder setup. I bet they will include some extras is you leave a note on your order.
I wasnt really worried about if the plane would be good or not, i just dont know if i want to give them anymore of my business after their handling of this wing twist issue.
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 10:10 AM
inverted-i-fly
3drcparts's Avatar
United States, CA, Petaluma
Joined Mar 2011
4,388 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickelbn1 View Post
I wasnt really worried about if the plane would be good or not, i just dont know if i want to give them anymore of my business after their handling of this wing twist issue.
that's the beauty of competition and choice, EF also make excellent planes, I have the 48 laser and 60 extra, both are outstanding, I will continue to support both companies balsa offerings
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