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Old Jan 09, 2013, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by alfasud View Post
That's interesting. I asked about being able to do the PPM firmware update to the receivers myself and was told special software was required. See this post, http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=732

Maybe we're talking about two different things.
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by alfasud View Post
Thanks, I read the first two. I was hoping to get some support from the US distributer, Esprit Model. I have invested in them.

Go to Esprit Model and you will notice the adapter listed as "Coming Soon", what does that mean? Days, weeks, months. Some Jeti equipment listed at Esprit Models is not available for sale in the US.

Thanks again, Ed
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Jack320 View Post
See my post here:



Read on.. also see post #897 in the same thread.

Jack
Jack,

Thanks for your vigilance and sorry for your loss. I am certain the rest of us (DC-16 and DS-16 present and future users) will benefit from your efforts.

I find the Esprit Model's response somewhat lacking in thorough evaluation and quite abrupt.

I appreciate that the manufacturer is listening to you and doing corrective measures.

Del
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 10:50 AM
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Jack,

If Jeti has acknowledged a potential material or design issue with the stick extensions that's good news-- hopefully they bring redesigned parts to market ASAP. It's very unfortunate it took crashing your model to bring it to their attention.

I will admit, being an engineer the one spot on the Jeti I wasn't totally impressed with was the stick extensions. They're relatively small outer diameter, being hollow there isn't much wall thickness especially through the threaded portion in the gimbal, and there is a stress concentration point right at the start of the threading. Since the sticks are the primary user interface and control input mechanism I would have over designed them and left a LOT of safety margin in them. I would have liked to see the OD and thread size of the stick extensions at least 2mm larger in outer diameter for increased wall thickness.

It looks like I might have to spin up some solid gimbal extensions on the lathe out of steel or stainless steel until the new parts are available for peace of mind. Another option that an end user could do easily would be to omit the stick switches for the time being and use loctite retaining compound to bond suitable sized steel piano wire inside the stick extensions. That would provide another load path and if the original stick extension did crack at the base of the gimbal the piano wire inside the extension would hold everything together and allow you to fly and land the model safely.

Unfortunately either of those two temporary solutions precludes the use of the stick mounted switches. Jeti's response will be interesting to follow; since the transmitters have been in use for a while now if there was an epidemic of stick extensions failing I'm sure it would be very easy to find more than one documented case and Jeti would have already addressed the issue-- but seeing one broken stick extension is enough justification to look at the component a little closer and start thinking about improvements. The current design with rather thin wall thickness doesn't leave much margin in the event the through hole is bored a little too large, has a little bit of runout, or the external threading is cut a bit too deep.
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 12:21 PM
WINS - Winch In Nose Sailplane
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USA, NH
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Jack,

Would you mind posting the e-mail from Jeti (just copy and paste it in this thread). I'd like to see exactly what they've said. Thanks so much. Sorry for you loss.

Preston
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack320 View Post
See my post here:



Read on.. also see post #897 in the same thread.

Jack
You see that's what I am saying since beginning: BE NICE TO THE People
With yelling and screaming you will not get anywhere.

Issue #1
- There is NO issues, "ONE swallow does not make spring". Everything what humans make might have a defect, that part might have been weakened, who knows. I am seeing it every single day. It sucks if it's your model, I found out the hard way that my $6,000.00 BVM Electra and Spectrum DSM2 was not a good idea.
- Your German Dealer MUST HELP YOU, that's his job

Isuue #2
Thank you for pointing it out, with Jeti engineers we have decided to change the default setting in all the receivers. It's very hard to detect this problem; you have to have tons of high performance digital servos being used at the same time. Fortunately it affects only very tiny minority.

All our receivers will be going out with changed default setting.

Zb/Esprit Model

Solution:
To avoid or resolve any potential servo jitter you should:
1) Set the receiver Output Period to "ByTransmitter"
2) Use only output groups A-F (only for R7 and above).

Step 1)
- Select "Main Setting" in the Rx menu column
- Go down to the Output Period menu
- Select the "ByTransmitter" option (go entirely left)

Step 2)
- Enable the Full menu option in Menu Display field
(This is found below the menu Output Period. With this
option enabled more Rx options are visible)
- Go to the Out Pin Set Menu column
- In the Set Output Pin screen select output Y7 and check
that the group for Y7 is group "A".
(Select Y7 and then scroll all the way down and modify,
if needed, the Output Group to A and then press and hold
the up button to select next output)
- You will need to repeat this for the next outputs Y8, Y9, etc... (One
after another)

Thanks
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Esprit Model View Post
You see that's what I am saying since beginning: BE NICE TO THE People
With yelling and screaming you will not get anywhere.
Dear Zb/Esprit Model or David,

In written language yelling is often subsidised by writing in caps often in combination with exclamation marks, just like you have manifested in your post...

Jeti confirmed that your "issue #1" as you call it, has been addressed, which in my view doesn't meant it's non existent.

Everything you have described in your solution to "issue #2" was tried before posting anything here on the forum, it does not help as you can see in my previous post here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack320 View Post
Hi Pascal,

thanks for your reply, I have tried that already, tried 5ms, by transmitter, makes no difference.
I have moved all outputs to a single group (A) and it made no difference. By slowing down the frequency all the way to 30ms the problem gets worse. Does your DC have the same problem?

Regards

Jack
The problem definitely affects all digital servos I have tried, no matter how fast/slow low/high performance they are, and I wish the solution was as simple as you think - it is not.

I don't jump to conclusions nor I make claims that I can not support.

Jack
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by jaizon View Post
Jack,

Would you mind posting the e-mail from Jeti (just copy and paste it in this thread). I'd like to see exactly what they've said. Thanks so much. Sorry for you loss.

Preston
Answered second time.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=904


Jack
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Old Jan 09, 2013, 04:31 PM
WINS - Winch In Nose Sailplane
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...
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack320 View Post
Dear Zb/Esprit Model,

Jeti confirmed that your "issue #1" as you call it, has been addressed, which in my view doesn't meant it's non existent.

The problem definitely affects all digital servos I have tried, no matter how fast/slow low/high performance they are, and I wish the solution was as simple as you think - it is not.

Jack
Stop by to see us at the EXPO Show in California.

#1
Next week after we get back from California EXPO we will post video showing 20 lbs. (9kg) hanging on the stick. Like I mentioned before there is NO issue.

#2
Next week after we get back from California EXPO we will post video showing the software in action. Like I mentioned before this is solved.

We will be doing radio demos for next 3 days.

Zb/Esprit Model
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 03:20 PM
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Stop by to see us at the EXPO Show in California.

Zb/Esprit Model
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 03:41 PM
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Czech Republic
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Jack, do you have also standard Jetibox or something similar with "servo test" function to compare with DC-16? Jetibox for instance uses the same frame rate as DC-16 (20ms) and a similar "jitter" might be expected when you enable servo test for these digital servos. If I'm correct, these problems disappear after moving to shorter refreshing period (Jetibox is unfortunately not able to provide).
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 05:17 PM
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San Diego, CA
Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esprit Model View Post

#1
Next week after we get back from California EXPO we will post video showing 20 lbs. (9kg) hanging on the stick. Like I mentioned before there is NO issue.

/Esprit Model

Wow, A simple static test (Hanging 20lbs on the stick) proves "NO issue"?
Last time I checked we don't hold the sticks in one direction and apply a single force when flying.

Students have built balsawood bridges that weigh less than an ounce but support a static hanging weight of over 75lbs. But... apply a few pounds of torsion to the same design and you get a completely different result.


Real world testing, actual movement of the stick to test material fatigue is the only way to determine if there is a flaw in design. Ex. Axial torsion testing with static and dynamic loads, something similar to a 3D pilot moving the sticks with quick forceful changes in direction is completely different than a hanging weight.


Hopefully the hollow extensions won't be an issue. I guess only time will tell if there is a problem or not.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 05:29 PM
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Well for my peace of mind I would like some stronger stick units. I am using a stick switch which was one of the reasons I got the radio so solid sticks are not an option I want to pursue.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 02:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MafRaf View Post
Jack, do you have also standard Jetibox or something similar with "servo test" function to compare with DC-16? Jetibox for instance uses the same frame rate as DC-16 (20ms) and a similar "jitter" might be expected when you enable servo test for these digital servos. If I'm correct, these problems disappear after moving to shorter refreshing period (Jetibox is unfortunately not able to provide).
There are no problems when using Jetibox to run the servo.

The problem is there no matter how short of a refresh period you set in the Jeti receiver. All the way to 5ms, or by transmitter.

When I plug the model into futaba receiver (even at 20ms) - all problems gone....

Jack
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