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Old Jul 10, 2012, 07:17 AM
Aka: Tom Jenkins
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Palm Beach County, Fl.
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Question
Looking for info on ARC 1 turn motor use and ESC design mods

I have a 36-65-1 2080Kv, CC 180, 4400 65c 5s.
With an APC 8x6e I got 1900-2200 watts at 113 amps, screams like a banchee
What could I expect to happen? Go? or Burn?
Airframe is going to be a sleek swept forward wing and fixed rudder.

jjmouris was kind enough to guide me to a site on CC mods and thought the tech was of intrest, I look forward to doing the work!
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Old Jul 10, 2012, 07:32 AM
"The Judge"
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Sweden
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I am worried that APC e prop will explode, you are probably well over limit for what the prop can handle, and I think you efficency is bad..... You are better of with a APC sport prop, they have them in all different sizes...

Im also think the amps are very low, I am getting like 90 amps with a 1000kv motor on 5s with that prop, you should see much higher amps, something is off..

I would say a 7x7 prop would be better..
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Old Jul 10, 2012, 07:45 AM
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Canada, SK, Prince Albert
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Temperature is HUGE! I have found that out the hard way in testing some big inrunners of late. It really doesn't matter what the watts and amps are what matters is what is the motor temp, ESC temp and battery temps are with a given setup. What I am saying by that is: If you can keep the temperature of the motor below its rated maximum you can keep pushing it. This temp will depend alot on the cooling air that is able to get INTO and OUT OF the airframe.

Don't go by what the printed specs are on the motor either...for instance specs that say a motor can take a certain number of amps and watts with a certain battery because I have found that those numbers are false and misleading. If the motor is cheap and has a high resistance it won't take much...trust me! If it is sold as an EDF motor it probably needs to be in a 200+ mph tunnel of air to take the numbers that are given for it or it will burn in another airframe other than an EDF...don't ask me how I know!

During your motor tests start paying more attention to temps of the different components and do not exceed them or something will burn. Do not run your BEC or receiver off of the flight pack if you are going to be pushing the limits of systems...don't ask me how I know! You mentioned 5S and the red flags just popped up. 5S Turnigy packs have a board with a Z of solder that will de-solder at 250amps... how do I know...I did it and lost a plane!

There is very little PROP info on those ARC motors so I for one and others will be interested in how far it will go. If you do some prop tests please add it to the info on the Fast Planes...Big Inrunners thread.

Check these out:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1639659

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1668258
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Old Jul 10, 2012, 08:18 AM
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+1 with Sebbe on the prop.
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Old Jul 10, 2012, 09:39 AM
Needs to do 52 legs !!
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Verenigd Koninkrijk, Fareham
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CC P180 on 5S worries me at whatever amperage.

It's also a bit of a waste of good equipment as that controller with the big George mod done can do up to 8000W in short bursts.

Since you are probably into continues motor on flying and not short bursts, you would be better off with an ICE 100 on there.
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Old Jul 10, 2012, 04:39 PM
Aka: Tom Jenkins
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Thanks Sebbe, You're speaking of the nitro type APC sport 7x7? Don't suppose you'd recommend using an old Rev Up pylon prop sized and pitched (wood)
JJ, yea I got the setup for a 90mm edf but I lost my 09' SFW, I have a 10 yr old bagged SF wing of about 450sq in and thought I make use of it. Build a larger swept forward wing to replace the one that blew up(the other guy only had a scratch) in a mid air. I surface mount the esc just so the air enters the wrap and I make the vent by notching the firewall behind the spinner enough to expose 1 motor vent and V' it into a NACA intake over the motor/batt. Heat exit under the wing rear. This time I'm using a heat sink and paste. The CC180 I've had at 3200 watts 5s65c4200 at 199 amps on a 70mm EDF once upon a time! 2" outlet 62.5krpm! 230mph efflux
Arctic, well advised thanks and I will read up.
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Old Jul 10, 2012, 05:17 PM
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Cool...I like that airframe! Is it your design?

WOOD Prop...
Am pretty sure I can speak for Sebbe...he is talking about the Nitro/Sport line of APC props...the APC pylon props work well for high performance E applications as well

Throw a build thread up on that one and I'll be sure to watch
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Old Jul 10, 2012, 05:22 PM
Aka: Tom Jenkins
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Yes sir, I just changed the image to a rendered one.
I'm going to do a quick and dirty(clean) pylon style fuse for the proto large one!
Wood! yea I make em to pull like a tractor! but it sounds like it not the way to go.
Here a shot of the Neu compared to the ARC , motor crutches for plank fuses.
The larger one isn't finished and the smaller one made it through 2 batt burns and an ESC fire the spilled molten solder out when I got her open.
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Old Jul 10, 2012, 05:31 PM
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What's the wing span gonna be?...make two I'll buy one from ya!
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Old Jul 10, 2012, 05:44 PM
Aka: Tom Jenkins
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Well I could I guess. My stack of cores and a few bagged wings were destroyed when a large branch went through the shed roof over the shelf where they resided. I need to dedicate a day to firing up the wire cutter and get to it! What do you think of a wing frame work skined with .007 flite skin? PS: right at 48in
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Old Jul 10, 2012, 06:03 PM
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I guess it really depends or your flying style and what you want from the plane. I for one have become addicted to speed and at the present it is my sole pursuit...so if I was building it...bagged foam cores with really strong carbon spar and lots of carbon/glass/kevlar in the skin...but that's just me the speed freak talking.
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Old Jul 10, 2012, 07:13 PM
Aka: Tom Jenkins
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My process for bagged pylon wings was, used Zap finishing resin, fit and sanded the skins, pour on resin and spread then soak 1" tow and squeegee thru fingers and lay on skin, squeegee till a dull shine, laminate and bag, glass trailing edge bottom w/2oz 2" wide strip and sand top to a razor edge, glass center w/ 6oz, sand off and cover. Place between two benches and ad 50# of weight for a 1/4in deflection. Thats using carbon tow on the bottom skin and E fiberglass tow on top skin for compression. I'm thinking for quick build a frame work same with a basically glass skin, BVM does it.
The balance point goes from ali hinge line at the tip and goes in front of the w/span C/L leading edge by an inch or so, so the stress is cantilevered and the center sect need special attention.
RE: style of flying, this thing can go and float at 1/2 mph if you want. or, Can you do a 175 mph 70 foot loop with a carbon hot liner design? I really don't know. I think its way more agile and very freaking fast as I've been stressing through a few motors, batts and esc's to get it to flat out blaze like a Q-40 or better. I just want a bigger and faster SFW now. Try this on, if you remember Don Muddiman from the 90's and his fantastic flying machine he flew at 150 all spastic. This will blow it away and will never stall or roll out on a turn at speed, low end flight need to watch your throws or it can snap but mostly bobbles until it kinda 3d elevator descends and lands unless you skid her in.
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Last edited by ApexAero; Jul 10, 2012 at 07:28 PM. Reason: Because I'm shooting for 200 mph
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 06:03 AM
Needs to do 52 legs !!
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Verenigd Koninkrijk, Fareham
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Basically if you take the time to modify that ESC (or get me to do it) you can then safely run it on 5S and even 6S up to 450A in short bursts. At 300A longer bursts (5 seconds no problem). Part throttle also not a problem as i run 100% part throttle these days with big ramps on the TX. If you are flying it like a pylon plane with the ESC running all the time, you may find the ESC gets hot faster and this may limit your flight time. Just try to keep it below 100 degrees C.

Your motor is big enough for that sort of abuse. Would be really cool to do speed runs with it. Again keep an eye on the temperature, just limit your run time the first few flights and work it up each flight checking the temps. 90 degrees C on the motor is probably max you would want to see.

Nice project.
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 06:04 AM
Needs to do 52 legs !!
jjmouris's Avatar
Verenigd Koninkrijk, Fareham
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About the big modification;

http://www.f5b.co.uk/?q=node/215
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 08:15 AM
Aka: Tom Jenkins
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Palm Beach County, Fl.
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JJ, question on the esc mods, is the mod design for the hot liner type flight, blasting up and coasting down ect or is it for overall ESC temp etc. Does it help manage power consumption etc? Also how is it on continuous runs
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