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Old Jul 08, 2012, 04:12 PM
Sussex, UK
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Crawley, West Sussex, UK
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Question
What should I do with old glow helis?

I while ago I was given an old (.30 sized) Hirobo Shuttle Z, which had been gathering dust in someone's shed for 20 years. I converted it to electric, using mostly HK parts I had already and the original servos.

At the same time I was given a Kalt Baron Cyclone 60, and recently I acquired a Kyosho Concept 60 and a Kyosho Nexus 30 that were in someone else's shed. Neither have motors and both would require a few parts (main gear, blades, a few pushrods, canopy - they're not complete wreaks)

I'm not sure how the shuttle would have flown originally, but it's a bit under powered now, running from 2x3s 2200mAh batteries in series. It does 5 minutes of gentle circuits and makes a nice whop-whop noise as it goes past.

What do you think I should do with them?
I imagine converting a .60 to electric would be fairly expensive, and I really don't need 4 old helis, but it seems a shame to throw them away.
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 05:44 PM
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I know a guy that has 7 Hirobo .30 helis that he bought on Ebay. Some people are collectors or need parts.
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Old Jul 09, 2012, 11:40 AM
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Some manufacturers (e.g. Century) offer electric conversion kits for their older nitro heli. Their CN1000EC kit converts any of their 30 sized Hawks or 46/50 sized Falcones, Ravens or NX50's to electric power.

Maybe it could also be used on the Shuttles.
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Old Jul 09, 2012, 03:52 PM
Sussex, UK
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Crawley, West Sussex, UK
Joined Jun 2004
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Converting the shuttle was pretty easy as I had the engine half of the clutch, so I just bolted that to a brushless motor, and folded some sheet ally to mount it.

The Nexus 30 looks relatively easy to convert, as there's a nice shaft and two bearings between the clutch and starter cone - I'd just have to make a motor mount (and replace the stripped main gear). The question is, would it fly any better than the Shuttle?

It would be nice to have a 60 size conversion, but I fear it might be rather expensive.

Equally, I'm a bit worried that I could spend a lot on the motor, ESC and batteries, and then discover that some vital part needs replacing and be unable to find it anywhere - or find that they don't fly nearly as well as a more modern machine and that I'd have been better looking for a clone or something second hand.
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Old Jul 10, 2012, 03:51 PM
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Paderborn DE
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Hi,
if I were U I would try to find someone who could use them as spares. I know all of them and although the Shuttle and Concept 60 were classed as pretty damm good in their day things have moved on a long way. Kalt Barons (the big ones, not the Space Baron) were very big in the US, maybe someone on here needs parts?? I think that if you did convert them that you would be dissapointed as the power/weight ratio would be lacking and the first crash would create a world of problems finding compatable parts.
Get a clone, read the thread, build a model that flies well for little outlay and have fun!!!
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Old Jul 10, 2012, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by PaulB View Post
I think that if you did convert them that you would be dissapointed as the power/weight ratio would be lacking
This is of course nonsense. An electric conversion would yield a lighter model, generally speaking. Looking at the high power electric brushless motors you would sooner overpower a model than to underpower it.

Just takes time to find the right powertrain.
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Old Jul 10, 2012, 05:52 PM
Harry from Atlanta, Ga.
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I owned a Concept .32 nitro, the Shuttle was quite similar yet a step up at the same time.
An expert pilot "Nob" could actually invert the shuttle for a brief flight.
He was one of the best pilots I have ever met.

Wow, have heli's improved over the years.

Harry
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 02:45 AM
Sussex, UK
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Crawley, West Sussex, UK
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Quote:
if I were U I would try to find someone who could use them as spares.
That sounds like a good idea.

Quote:
Wow, have heli's improved over the years.
Are modern helis really that much better? Or is it just easier to learn aerobatics now everyone has a simulator?
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 01:30 PM
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Are modern helis really that much better? Or is it just easier to learn aerobatics now everyone has a simulator?[/QUOTE]

Yes and Yes

Todays model fly out of the box and fly well. Sims are a god-send but I also believe that the drop in price to what they cost 20 years ago (in relation to the cost of living) has made flying Helys more acessable to more people who arn't afraid to 'kick butt'. Dare I also mention the Play Station Generation???
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by RNAF View Post
This is of course nonsense. An electric conversion would yield a lighter model, generally speaking. Looking at the high power electric brushless motors you would sooner overpower a model than to underpower it.

Just takes time to find the right powertrain.
Thanks for the endearing comment.

Funny thing is, the models mentioned are either app. 100 cm rotor dia.(around Rexy 500 size) or 150 cm (Rexy 700ish). The smaller modes were mainly powered by the OS Max 32H which weighs 285 Grams plus 200 Grams for fuel. 480 Grams producing 1,8 HP (PS) at 16000 RPM. The larger models were often powered by the OS Max 61H, 600 Grams plus 400 Grams fuel. 1000 Grams producing 2,2 HP (PS) at 16000.

Please tell me where I can buy a power system for my 500 which only weighs 480 Grams and for my mates 700 at only 1000 Grams?? (Oh yes, and the fuel mentioned above would last 12,5 – 15 minutes so I would like that too please).

Yes, modern power systems are very, very powerful but the models which they power have got a lot lighter and fly at far higher RPMs than these ‘old’ models would survive. They also develop their maximum torque at far higher RPMs than the old ‘wet’ engines and so the gearing would be a pain and running them over 1500 – 1600 RPM would be suicidal.
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 02:19 PM
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Robin, looking for the specs on these models (see above) I can across quite a few mentions of owners and even shops trying to keep these models airborn in the UK. You may be able to make someone happy and get a deposit for a 'moden' model.
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulB View Post
Thanks for the endearing comment.

Funny thing is, the models mentioned are either app. 100 cm rotor dia.(around Rexy 500 size) or 150 cm (Rexy 700ish). The smaller modes were mainly powered by the OS Max 32H which weighs 285 Grams plus 200 Grams for fuel. 480 Grams producing 1,8 HP (PS) at 16000 RPM. The larger models were often powered by the OS Max 61H, 600 Grams plus 400 Grams fuel. 1000 Grams producing 2,2 HP (PS) at 16000.

Please tell me where I can buy a power system for my 500 which only weighs 480 Grams and for my mates 700 at only 1000 Grams?? (Oh yes, and the fuel mentioned above would last 12,5 – 15 minutes so I would like that too please).

Yes, modern power systems are very, very powerful but the models which they power have got a lot lighter and fly at far higher RPMs than these ‘old’ models would survive. They also develop their maximum torque at far higher RPMs than the old ‘wet’ engines and so the gearing would be a pain and running them over 1500 – 1600 RPM would be suicidal.
You can easily get 3500 Watts continuous from a 400 gram brushless motor.
That's close to 5HP. Add a 1 kg battery and you can fly close to 20 minutes.
Depending on the RPM of the rotor you can select a certain kv where your most efficient RPM yields a perfect headspeed. So I guess you're not into electric that much. Otherwise you'd know that "a" brushless motor will not crank up the RPM compared to the old IC engines.

Still, without going into any figures: why does my Vario Skyfox (1990 version) fly for 15 minutes and weighing 300 grams less than the nitro version? It's got amazing power at 1400 RPM. I have yet to see a nitro version of it going up like that


Just be real, I was not trying to bash IC or state that brushless is the world. I'm just saying that you do not loose performance if you go brushless.
I guess you're seeing too much 3D nowadays which is very inefficient and hence the short flight times.


Don't give up on those old heli's, by the way. I'm flying a 20 year old one.
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 02:58 PM
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Just to go into that 1500-1600 RPM thing. My Vario heli may not operate above 1600 RPM.
I have a beast of an engine in it, at 500kv. So each Volt I put in, the motor rotates at 500 RPM.
So, actually, my motor runs at about 16.000 RPM. I've geared that down to about 1400 RPM for the head.
So, my brushless motor is working in the exact same range as your combustion engines
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RNAF View Post
Just to go into that 1500-1600 RPM thing. My Vario heli may not operate above 1600 RPM.
I have a beast of an engine in it, at 500kv. So each Volt I put in, the motor rotates at 500 RPM.
So, actually, my motor runs at about 16.000 RPM. I've geared that down to about 1400 RPM for the head.
So, my brushless motor is working in the exact same range as your combustion engines
Deleted, sorry.
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Last edited by PaulB; Jul 11, 2012 at 03:35 PM. Reason: Deleted, I didn't see your post above this one, made my answer irrelivant.
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Old May 02, 2013, 02:00 PM
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Do you still have the Kyosho 60? I 've manage to convert mine to electric. I just need some spare parts as a backup. Google Kyosho concept 60 electric conversion to see the maiden.
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