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Old Jul 08, 2012, 03:39 AM
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Build Log
4f200 & V200 - Upgrades, Repairs, Mods, build from parts

4f200 & V200D03 - Upgrades, Repairs, Mods, Complete parts build

Click here to Subscribe to this build log!

Index:

#1: Front belt drive, belt replacement & tail boom repair.

#2: Experimental motor - Turbo Ace 352 - Motor not so experimental anymore! I use it full time now.

#3: $10 Hobbywing Skywalker 20A Speed Controller

#4: Home made "Glitch Buster" circuit for the 4f200

#5: 4F200 Parts Build - The tail section

#6: 4F200 Parts Build - The Airframe

#7: 4F200 Parts Build - The Rotors

#8: 4F200 Parts Build - The Electronics & Misc Install

#9: 4F200 Blade grip upgrade! Fit standard 250 blades!

#10: Turnigy Battery Canidates arrrive for 4f200 testing

#11: Motor Upgrade! - Turbo Ace 342 - 3S 4200kv

#12: Canopy Durability Liner

#13: Custom Fit Trex 250 Skid Upgrade

#14: 4F200 - MKS DS470 Metal gear servo upgrade

#15: 4f200 - Castle Creations Phoenix 35 ESC upgrade!

#16: 4F200 - 2702V Gyro/RX Upgrade / Savox tail Upgrade

#17: CB180Z Tail Fins on the 4f200

#18: 4F200 - Ino-Lab D261HB tail servo install

#19: 4f200 Tail rocker screw upgrade to 2mm

#20: 4F200 tail conversion to V200D03, two blade tail. Assembly & modifications

#21: V200 - Dampening tail vibes i can't get rid of

#22: V200 - Tail vibe solved??

#23: 4F200 / V200 - Physical Installation of uBeast & SRX

#24: V200D03 CF Rudder Pushrod V2

#25: V200D03 Frame Build & Modifcation for MKS servos

#26: V200 upgraded with Master CP rotor head

#27: V200D03 with Hobbymate HB800 V2 gyro

#28: V200D03 / 4F200 CF Rudder Pushrod V3

#29: 4F200 / V200D03 Front skid & frame CF reinforcement

Useful and informative External topic links:

Custom fit Trex 250 plastic blades on 4f200 grips.

Tail rotor blade options and colors

4f200 Battery tray mod by Razorblade

How to: Fix 4f200 tail Wag from worn tail drive gear

Repairing missing motor E-clip with steel wire.

4F200 Modification for Installation of EMAX ES08MD Servos (by razorblade)

Some mechanical Specs:
Main gear: 172T
Stock 4f200 motor pinion: 17T 0.3m
Stock motor: 3900kv (really around 6000kv)

I started a build log for my 4f200 to hopefully pass along some information, build a database of sorts and maybe help some people with this very awesome helicopter. The methods and opinions expressed here are my own. Links to other peoples project reserve their own methods and opinions as their own as well. These methods and opinions are to be used as a reference point only. Follow these instructions, methods, and opinions at your own risk. The authors of these works will not be liable for damages to you or your property. Please always take proper safety precautions and use proper safety equipment to protect yourself.


To start off i want to just say that if you own or are planning on buying one of these helicopters. In my opinion, it is absolutely mandatory that you upgrade the receiver (2612V) with a 2618V RX at the very least. There are better and more expensive receivers/gyros you can buy. But the 2618v is stable. It will hold the tail and fly very nice on this helicopter. Unlike the 2612V.

First I am going to cover a few repairs i recently had to do. As I crash and rebuild or modify this helicopter I will be posting new information here. As well as editing and updating existing posts. Check back for edits and updated info. Subscribe to this thread by clicking the link above to receive updates on new posts.


My fiber frame pieces were broken so i had to swap them out. Surprisingly i had at least 20 or more flights with the frame in this condition. Replacing the frame is quite a pain. The most important thing is keeping your screws organized. You might as well clean up and check for wear. Repair or lube things while your in there too. I happened to find a worn gear cap on my front tail drive gear. The only other issue i saw was some wear around the outside of the outrunner on the motor from when i crashed the frame rubbed the side because it was broken. I also had to rebuild the tail and replace the belt. More info on these repairs in the coming posts.
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 04:40 AM
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Front belt drive, belt replacement & tail boom repair.

When i was doing my frame repairs i found my belt drive's gear cap was worn out. This caused the shaft to be able to shimmy up and down while the heli was running. The opposite gear cap shook loose on the bottom and allowed the belt to slip off over the corner of the gear, wearing the belt out. The heli still flew pretty well, surprisingly, as long as i didn't pump the pitch too hard.

I had the tail box apart already because of the last crash. So after removing the old belt and repairing my tail boom from the blade strike i pushed the new belt up through the back with a CF rod from a set of training gear, being careful to keep track of what way the belt will need to be twisted for proper tail rotation after i hook it on the front gear. It's pretty easy. If the belt is on straight though the tail boom and sitting horizontal, while attached to the front gear already. All you need to do is twist the belt 90 degrees clockwise as you install the tail box.

I had to repair the front gear drive since i didn't have another one spare. I simply used one of the tiny washers found in the 4f200's screw set on the side of the gear with the worn out gear cap and installed it that way. I have used this method on my last tail rotor shaft's gear cap as well with no problems. At least until i crashed and bent it! So i no longer will need it with the new shaft, at least until that one's gear cap wears out too.

One of the worst parts of working on the tail is having to assemble the tail rotor shaft. I use some wood blocks and a vise to press mine together. See the pictures below. You have to be careful when pressing the gear on the shaft so that you do not bend the shaft. You have to make sure the shaft and gear are lined up level and even.
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 04:52 AM
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Experimental motor - Turbo Ace 352

Testing is still in progress with this motor:

Walkera 4f200/ V200D03 main gear specs:

Tooth count: 172
Pinion Modulus required: 0.3


Turbo Ace 352 Specs: (as far as i have collected so far)

5200kv
2 cell
Shaft Diameter: 2.0mm
Shaft Length: 47mm (approx)
Motor Diameter: 29mm (approx)
Motor Case Length: 25mm (approx)
Pinion Size from wow hobbies: 13T
Preferred pinion: 18T or larger. ( 18T with 2mm drill hole, 3mm width, brass)

Walkera WK-WS-21-004 Specs: (as far as i have collected so far)

3900kv on label, 6000kv clocked.
2 cell
Shaft Diameter: 2.0mm
Shaft Length: 40mm (approx)
Motor Diameter: 27mm (approx)
Motor Case Length: 23mm (approx)
Pinion Size: 17T

The 13T pinion is not needed or sufficient and you can get the motor without a pinion for this reason. The Stock pinion works best so far. I recently ordered a 18T pinion from over seas. Hopefully it comes quickly with no issues. I will update this post when i do get it.

The Turbo Ace 352 motor is pretty cool! I like it. It's quiet and runs very smooth and cool. It was 98 degrees here before adding the heat index and tanning index. With my Hobbywing 20A ESC the start up is instant and smooth.

I don't have any way to accurately check head speed right now. I got a phone application that checks by sound what the head speed is, but that seems to vary in results. Right now with the 352 motor it looks like head speed is around 3800 rpms At first I installed the motor with the 13T pinion it came loaded with. This pinion just did not have the head speed i'm used to. It was enough to fly the helicopter in normal flight. It would be ok for a FP heli. But for our little 3 bladed CP wonder here, it needs more! So I Installed the 17T stock pinion from the WK stock motor. This made a huge difference but it still needs a bigger one.

I want to make a quick side note here for anyone looking to get this motor. The 13T pinion that came loaded was for a round shaft. While this motor has a keyed shaft with a flat spot in it. So using another pinion without the D hole was not a concern for me when i was ordering pinions. If you don't want to order a pinion from over seas. The easy way of course is to use the 17t pinion. The 17T pinion from the stock WK motor has a flat spot too and they both have a 2mm shaft. This works out perfectly! So the 17T pinion fits the new motor with the flat spot holding it firm from slipping! The heli was flying great till i got stuck in a strong gust that stalled me while transitioning into inverted and i crashed! Well that gave me a reason to do a rebuild and fix my frame pieces that have been broken for some time now. Here is the motor video and pictures:

4f200 - First flight with TA 352 motor 17T pinion and crash! (6 min 8 sec)



I flew about 6 packs on the Turbo Ace motor. Then, because i rebuilt the helicopter and replaced the previously worn out tail belt. I wanted to switch back to the stock motor just to see how much of a change it is. The truth be told the Turbo Ace motor holds up close with the 17t pinion. It is just lacking approx. 200rpm on the head speed to keep up with the stock motor. The 18t is very close to the stock head speed. But i think the stock motor still has 2-400 rpm above even with the 18t pinion on the TA motor. But of course the stock motor and battery are burning up after a flight with the stock motor.

Here is the video from the first flight with the stock motor reinstalled:

4f200 - Stock motor revisited + Home made "Glitch Buster" Capacitor. (6 min 20 sec)



UPDATE 07/21/12
The 18T pinion is flying nice. The head speed is clocked around 4000 rpm with my phone app. The punch outs are pretty fast and the tail does not really kick or drift much at all till the battery gets lower. I'm still going to go ahead and order a 19T pinion, maybe a 20T too. Just to do it and see. Here is a test video of the latest test flight with the Turbo ace 352 using a 18T pinion. Plenty of pitch pumps and some flips but nothing too fancy. The stock motor may still perform better, but in the summer heat in Florida the 352 is very heat efficient still.

4f200 - Test - Turbo Ace 352 with 18T pinion (7 min 38 sec)



UPDATE: 12/02/12
The 18T Pinion was nice, but a 19T would have been better. To get more power back i installed the stock motor since it's cooler out side this time of year here in florida. I was having power delivery issues and the motor was bogging bad. It caused two crashes. I am still unsure of the actual cause. I suspect the ESC. But it brought me to doing some calculations and thinking about ordering a new pinion for the 352 because i really do think it can handle the gearing up to 19T at least.

Here is a quick calculation of how the 352 motor should run with a 19T pinion on it.



This is much better than what i was running it at with a 18T pinion. I just started flying my bigger helicopters more and didn't ever feel like ordering more pinions. Here is the calculation for the 18T pinion. you can see i'm lacking head speed and it drops considerably through the flight.



Last one. This is a calculation, roughly for the stock motor and pinion. The actual motor's KV is pretty ambiguous. So this is based on the 6000kv figure. Keep in mind though. Your not supposed to run the 4f200 at 100% throttle, according to the manual i think? /shrug. I'm pretty sure i read that somewhere. I still do it, but i'm sure it said somewhere not too.




UPDATE 01/03/13:

I never did order a 19T pinion. But the 18T has worked out pretty well. The power issues and problems i was having in the last update were directly from the old stock motor i put back in the model. So the 352 is my full time motor once again and had been for a long time before the weather cooled off a month or 2 ago. I will probably still, one day, order a 19T pinion for this motor. But i have already ordered a 3S Turbo Ace 342. It is a 4200kv motor and comes with a 14T pinion, that i am unsure if it will mesh with the 4f200 or not. I may have to order new pinions for it, and i will order a 19T for the TA 352 motor also. It might be a while before i can get the 3S motor up and running, if i need to order pinions. But when i do i will post about it in a new post on this thread. This will likely be the last update on the this post about this Turbo Ace 352 motor. Unless some other useful info comes up.
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 07:02 AM
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$10 Hobbywing Skywalker 20A Speed Controller



The Hobbywing Skywalker 20A ESC is an excellent budget speed controller. Once set up properly you will get what you would have expected from the stock Walkera 20A ESC, plus a lot more. This speed controller seemed to add some power to my stock motor. It could have been that my ESC was going bad, but it did seem stronger once set up.

Product description

Specifications:
Model: Skywalker-20A
Continuous Current: 20A
Burst Current (>10s): 25A
BEC Mode: Linear
BEC Output: 5V2A
BEC Output Capability: 5 Servos (2S Lipo) / 4 Servos (3S Lipo)
Battery Cell: 2-3S (Lipo) / 5-9 cells (NiMH)
Net Weight: 19g
Dimension (L x W x H): 42 x 25 x 8mm

Features:
Use top quality components to get strong current endurance.

Low voltage cut-off protection / over-heat protection / throttle signal loss protection.

3 start modes: Normal / Soft / Super-Soft, compatible with fixed-wing aircraft and helicopter.

Smooth, linear and precise throttle response.

Maximum motor speed: 210000 PRM (2 poles), 70000 RPM (6 poles), 35000 RPM (12 poles).

Here is a link to the user manual pdf: http://www.hobbywing.com/uploadfiles...l/HW-01-SW.pdf




You will have to enter programming mode to set the throttle limits and to turn off breaking. With the 2618V and 2612V this had been difficult for me. Now that I have done it a bunch of times, it is very easy(see video below) I personally use the highest timing setting. After many flights the stock motor is still working. It just runs very hot. Nothing new there. I recently replaced it with the Turbo Ace 352 motor with a 18T pinion, custom ordered. Also on the highest timing. So far no issues.

Update 07/28/12:
I am also using this ESC on max timing for the Turbo Ace 352 motor with no issues so far. The nice thing here is that the TA motor runs much cooler than the stock motor. So i can fly packs back to back, especially in the summer. Less downtime between packs.

4f200 - Hobbywing Skywalker 20A ESC - How to: programming mode (6 min 44 sec)
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Old Jul 09, 2012, 06:08 AM
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Home made "Glitch Buster" circuit for the 4f200

Home made "Glitch Buster" circuit for the 4f200

Someone posted a video a little while ago of a 4f200 running custom equipment. One of the things installed was a "Glitch Buster" capacitor.

Here is what "Glitch Buster" claims their capacitor does:

This is the Glitch Buster Capacitor from Novak Electronics.

FEATURES: High capacity super low resistance capacitor helps to solve radio
problems from high-amp motor set-ups
Plugs directly into any open channel or battery slot in any standard
receiver
Stores power from the Battery Eliminator Circuitry (BEC) and acts as
a filter to eliminate noises generated by servos



So it allows for lower voltage drops to your RX basically, by picking up some of the slack and storing it for a short burst when the voltage drops.

I didn't want to pay the $10 for one of these so I went hunting around for some caps on my old electronics in the workshop. Alternatively you can go buy one for a dollar or two at Radio Shack. I found an old burned out power supply that i was going to fix eventually. Instead I robbed 2 capacitors off of it. My original plan was to use 2 of these in parallel but one of them was already bad! No wonder that computer wouldn't turn on anymore! lol. I decided to just use one for now. Originally these were going to be for my V450 but it's out of commission right now waiting for some new servos. Besides i want to have more capacitance with the v450 anyway. This little 3300 uF cap should be enough to hopefully prevent any brown outs on the 4f200. I have not had any brown outs with the Hobbywing Skywalker ESC though. Unlike the stock ESC! This is just an extra safety measure. Plus it might help keep power flowing to the motor better too since it will ease some strain caused by the servos current draw.



Here is some pictures and more info:
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Old Sep 15, 2012, 09:05 PM
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4F200 parts build - The Tail Section

4F200 parts build - The Tail Section

The information in this post will be updated at a later date. For now i just wanted to get the pictures uploaded.
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Old Sep 15, 2012, 09:06 PM
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4F200 Parts Build - The Airframe

4F200 Parts Build - The Airframe

The information in this post will be updated at a later date. For now i just wanted to get the pictures uploaded.
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Old Sep 15, 2012, 10:33 PM
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4F200 Parts Build - The Rotors

4F200 Parts Build - The Rotors

The information in this post will be updated at a later date. For now i just wanted to get the pictures uploaded.
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Old Sep 16, 2012, 10:16 AM
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4F200 Parts Build - The Electronics & Misc Install

4F200 Parts Build - The Electronics & Misc Install

The information in this post will be updated at a later date. For now i just wanted to get the pictures uploaded.
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Old Sep 16, 2012, 10:21 AM
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4F200 Blade grip upgrade! Fit standard 250 blades!

4F200 Blade grip upgrade! Fit standard 250 blades!

Okay, For a long while i enjoyed the 4f200 with the stock CF blades. But when it came to 3D flight. They were just too rigid and create too much strain on the motor. I personally feel they are too wide for this 2S setup.

Since trying the 200mm plastic Trex 250 blades (with spacers), i have always preferred them. Unfortunately the 4f200 and v200d03 blade grips are much too wide to grip them or any other standard 250 size blade available, unless you use spacers. I have come up with this easy way to replace your blade grips using the stock 4f200 blade grip ball links and the 4f180 blade grips. The 4f180 blade grips will fit the shafts perfectly and no modification is needed. However the 4f180 ball linkages are too short and create a geometry issue with the swash links. By removing them and installing the ball links off of the stock 4f200 you can arrive nearly at stock geometry. The good news is that after installing these blade grips you no longer have to use spacers to fit standard 250 blades. On top of that, because there is less play between the spacers and the blade on the root, the blades will be more responsive then previously and also track much better.

NOTE!!! It is very important that you balance your 3 blades together. The Trex 250 blades can sometimes be a few grams difference from one package to the next. Since you need 2 sets, one of the 3 is likely to be off balance.








UPDATE 01/29/13:


I ran out of the longer ball links from the 4f200 blade grips after a few crashes and loosing them. So i decided to install the stock 4f180 balls in the 4f180 blade grips i am currently using. Since they are shorter, the geometry is a little bit off with the swash. But! I happen to have some extra 4f180 grip balls left over. So i replaced the long balls on the swashplate with the shorter ones from the 4f180 blade grips too. The geometry is probably even better like this than it was before. I think the shortest balls from another swashplate might even get better geometry still. I'm not sure. But i think they would also work just fine. Being shorter, they will also have less leverage pressure against the CNC. So hopefully they will be less likely to rip out and strip. With any luck, that is.






UPDATE 01/31/13:

I went ahead and installed the short ball links from a broken swash (cyclic balls). The geometry is very nice and i am pleased to report, despite another unfortunate crash, the balls all held up. The worst thing i have broken so far is ball linkages (plastic breaks) and some broken blades & skids. I do also unscrew and thread lock any balls that might seem to have taken a hit. Just to be sure. I thread lock securely. So far all have tightened back down properly, without stripping. With the MKS DS470 servos, the horns have not broken or had the balls pulled out of the horns yet. The metal gears are taking a crash beating. 3 or 4 fairly hard ones now. The heli is taking MUCH less damage since installing these servos and using the shorter ball links with these blade grips and the plastic Trex 250 blades. I have decided to stop flying the heli until i get a better gyro.


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Old Sep 19, 2012, 11:07 PM
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Turnigy Battery Canidates arrrive for 4f200 testing

Just got the first set of Turnigy packs to see how they work on the 4f200.







Okay, here is the scoop. I got a chance to flight test and all 3 packs fit under the canopy very well and balanced decently in flight. But having a metal gear tail servo might tip the scales heavy to the rear. These are small packs Here is the Flight times (approx).

1.3 Ah Turnigy pack: 3.5 minutes.
1.3 Ah Turnigy Nano pack: 3.5 minutes
1.6 Ah Turnigy Nano pack: 4.5 minutes

The Nano pack did seem to supply a higher head speed. The biggest pack, the 1.6 Ah also seemed to output a slightly higher head speed than the 1.3 Ah pack did, at least at the beginning of the flight. Hard to really tell without taching it.

I'm positive larger packs will ride nicely in the unmodified battery tray too. So i ordered 2 more packs a 1.7 Ah and a 1.8 Ah. Both should fit nicely, if i measured correctly. With the weekend coming, i doubt they will arrive till next week some time. We'll see.
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 09:48 PM
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Turnigy 20-30C vs Turnigy Nano 25-50C 1300 mAh.
4F200 - Turnigy 20-30C vs Turnigy Nano 25-50C - 1300 mAh (7 min 50 sec)
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Old Jan 05, 2013, 11:15 PM
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Motor Upgrade! - Turbo Ace 342 - 3S 4200kv

Motor Upgrade! - Turbo Ace 342 - 3S 4200kv

So i received my Turbo Ace 342 from wow hobbies today, and i got to work on installing it. Unfortunately, wow hobbies web site data was wrong about the dimensions of the motor. I kind of expected that, because it looked bigger in the picture. I managed to make it work still though. The pinion that came with it was a 14T 0.5m pinion for the 1#A. I suppose it would even fly my V450. The motor is the same diameter as the Turbo Ace 804 motor, but it's a little more than half the length. I managed to get the motor installed. I had to modify the bottom frame plate to fit the motor. But otherwise this is a perfect upgrade IMO. The stock motor's 17T pinion has a 2.0mm shaft hole. The new motor's shaft is 2.3mm. Both are "keyed" or "D Shaped". Using a large table vice i force pressed the pinion on the new motor. Using pressure, then releasing pressure, and then pressure again. In small increments. Pressing the pinion on in this manner will reduce the risk of bending the motor's shaft.

My test flights in my driveway went well. It revealed that i will have to tune the gyros and cyclic EXT for how i like with the new power behind the rotor. But i think it's going to be great at the field tomorrow when if i get a chance to go.

4F200C - 3S 4200kv - First test hover (6 min 25 sec)


4F200C - 3S 4200kv - Audio Tach'ed flight - No bog @ 10.5v (6 min 38 sec)




Here is a head speed calculation i did. It shows that with this setup i should be getting ~4800 rpm at the beginning of the flight. I'm not sure if the calculator accounts for the 3 blade rotor or any other variables. So this is a close estimate. The audio tach had me at just under 4700rpm.




UPDATE 01/06/13:
First 3D flight attempt!

4F200 - 3S upgrade Turbo Ace 4200kv motor! (4 min 48 sec)
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 10:32 AM
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Canopy Durability Liner

Canopy Durability Liner


This is a mod i have been using on my V450 for a few months now. It has been fairly successful and i have had at least 4 crashes with one of the treated canopies, and on another canopy that was treated, i also crashed twice on that one. The canopy usually holds together well enough you can CA it back into one piece and keep flying. For more info on my V450 canopy liners, and some of the results from the crashes. Take a look at my V450 build log.



The idea is very simple. I use a spray on "rubber" that coats the inside of the Walkera canopies. The rubber liner then absorbs any shock or vibration that might be sent though the canopy in a crash. Making it MUCH less likely to shatter from non canopy impacts. Also somewhat less likely of breaking or shattering on direct impacts, especially on the nose or side. It's not a perfect fix, but it does seem to make the canopy last though a few crashes, with minimal work to glue it back together. Give it a shot! Also keep in mind that the spray comes in colors too. So you could mask off the outside of the canopy and spray the outside instead/ too. Just keep in mind the more you coat, the heavier the canopy will become.


This is what i have been using to line the canopies with, you should be able to pick some up at your local hardware store:





This is what the inside of the canopies look like after being treated and drying for more than 24 hours:




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Old Jan 27, 2013, 07:43 PM
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Custom Fit Trex 250 Skid Upgrade

Custom Fit Trex 250 Skid Upgrade


This is a very easy mod. The skids are lower profile and pretty durable. I like the way the heli sits with them, and how the white stands out in the air. Lucky for us, Align had mold marks on the back of the skids which indicates almost exactly where to drill the holes! So all you need is a drill slightly larger than the stock hole. Just in case you need some room for adjustment.


You may need a dremel drill chuck for bits this small. Depends on your drill.
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