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Old Aug 28, 2012, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by balsa or carbon View Post
You make the pusher-puller , I'll make the side by side !
Since i'm working on my original my DSE i may tape a motor on both ends to see how it balances with batteries.

Nightstone
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 02:04 PM
Hot glue held together by foam
United States, WA, Vancouver
Joined Aug 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightstone View Post
Since i'm working on my original my DSE i may tape a motor on both ends to see how it balances with batteries.

Nightstone
And then you're going to fly it ?
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by balsa or carbon View Post
And then you're going to fly it ?
Of Course... I'm in that experimenting phase and will throw anything into the air lol. just picked up another 20 in foam today so im ready to build again. Btw... That tape I got is used in heat transfer machines. they need to look up exactly what it is as it was a sample they received and did not use.

Al... got my batteries in today. So I decided to put on a prop and quickly realized i had no adapted. Went online and could find none for a 3mm shaft and 4mm prop. Closest was 5mm. Went to the local hobby shop and they said drill the prop to 5mm. So I went and did that and they are mounted. This okay to do? Do you know of any adapters that will fit the GWS props with out drilling them out?

So i'm ready to do something fast. Was thinking a simple delta with the motor rear mounted with 2 fins for a stabilizer and thin small elevons. I want to protect the motor. I realize I may have to extend the nose to get the right CG. KFm4. What do you think? Workable? Its more than likely going to crash but I want the experiance to see where I stand and what I can handle at this point.

Btw.. DSE is back up and flying. Went back to dental pick control horns and put 9 gram servos in. Control is even better now and she hovers great. I have more flights on this plane than anything else I have at this point. Its just a blast to fly. Fast, Slow, Hover, Maneuverable. She does it all.

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Old Aug 29, 2012, 01:04 AM
Hot glue held together by foam
United States, WA, Vancouver
Joined Aug 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightstone View Post
Of Course... I'm in that experimenting phase and will throw anything into the air lol. just picked up another 20 in foam today so im ready to build again. Btw... That tape I got is used in heat transfer machines. they need to look up exactly what it is as it was a sample they received and did not use.

Al... got my batteries in today. So I decided to put on a prop and quickly realized i had no adapted. Went online and could find none for a 3mm shaft and 4mm prop. Closest was 5mm. Went to the local hobby shop and they said drill the prop to 5mm. So I went and did that and they are mounted. This okay to do? Do you know of any adapters that will fit the GWS props with out drilling them out?

So i'm ready to do something fast. Was thinking a simple delta with the motor rear mounted with 2 fins for a stabilizer and thin small elevons. I want to protect the motor. I realize I may have to extend the nose to get the right CG. KFm4. What do you think? Workable? Its more than likely going to crash but I want the experiance to see where I stand and what I can handle at this point.

Btw.. DSE is back up and flying. Went back to dental pick control horns and put 9 gram servos in. Control is even better now and she hovers great. I have more flights on this plane than anything else I have at this point. Its just a blast to fly. Fast, Slow, Hover, Maneuverable. She does it all.

Nightstone
I've drilled props out before and it hasn't been a problem , but I've heard there are prop reamers that will probably do a better job than a drill bit .
I've been having a lot of fun flying the Simple Dollar Tree Jet lately , it REALLY scoots when I put a 40c 3s on it ! When you make your fast one , have you considered making a longer , narrower version of your DSE ? Since it's a proven successful flyer , modifying it to be more jet-like ( and putting a screaming motor on it ! ) might give you a great speedster .
As always , can't WAIT to see your next plane !
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Old Aug 29, 2012, 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted by balsa or carbon View Post
I've drilled props out before and it hasn't been a problem , but I've heard there are prop reamers that will probably do a better job than a drill bit .
I've been having a lot of fun flying the Simple Dollar Tree Jet lately , it REALLY scoots when I put a 40c 3s on it ! When you make your fast one , have you considered making a longer , narrower version of your DSE ? Since it's a proven successful flyer , modifying it to be more jet-like ( and putting a screaming motor on it ! ) might give you a great speedster .
As always , can't WAIT to see your next plane !
I was going to do a rear mount delta. There's tons of different kinds all based on that same shape ( see my Pic ). But now that you mention it the DSE is a great shape too. The mid mount will protect the motor and prop. With a 4" prop I only need to go 2 1/2" either direction vertically and protect it both ways. Battery bay underneath should be easy. And the CG is already established. From there its esthetics. I can start with a 2s on that Hex 3000 then go 3s when I'm ready. And the biggest plus is I can fly the shape already.

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Old Aug 29, 2012, 11:33 AM
Hot glue held together by foam
United States, WA, Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightstone View Post
I was going to do a rear mount delta. There's tons of different kinds all based on that same shape ( see my Pic ). But now that you mention it the DSE is a great shape too. The mid mount will protect the motor and prop. With a 4" prop I only need to go 2 1/2" either direction vertically and protect it both ways. Battery bay underneath should be easy. And the CG is already established. From there its esthetics. I can start with a 2s on that Hex 3000 then go 3s when I'm ready. And the biggest plus is I can fly the shape already.

Nightstone
Mid mount is my favorite . Great motor protection and easier to get the CG right than a rear pusher . I'll look for that video ... tomorrow ?!
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Old Aug 29, 2012, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by balsa or carbon View Post
Mid mount is my favorite . Great motor protection and easier to get the CG right than a rear pusher . I'll look for that video ... tomorrow ?!
Going to be a few days... was supposed to be off today but got a few emergency jobs so I worked. Went to paint foam when I got home and my 15 year old compressor died ( could not even clean my paint gun properly ). Got a few painted sheets so it looks like its back to white planes for a bit. Hopefully this will be it as far as things going wrong for a while...

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Old Aug 31, 2012, 01:51 AM
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Got her built tonight but not outfitted. She is much slimmer and trimmer than my original DSE. Maiden tomorrow at sunset or sat morning.

Was out flying my DSE at sunset and had 2 folks stop and talk to me about the plane. It seems to always draw interest. Big white foam delta flying around.

hopefully the new one flys good and i'm able to handle the performance.

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Old Aug 31, 2012, 11:27 AM
Hot glue held together by foam
United States, WA, Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightstone View Post
Got her built tonight but not outfitted. She is much slimmer and trimmer than my original DSE. Maiden tomorrow at sunset or sat morning.

Was out flying my DSE at sunset and had 2 folks stop and talk to me about the plane. It seems to always draw interest. Big white foam delta flying around.

hopefully the new one flys good and i'm able to handle the performance.

Nightstone
Looks GOOD ! I can't tell from the photo if there's a KFm on it .When you fly it , just remember , " altitude is your friend " !
Where I fly people are always asking about the planes , they're amazed to find out the airframes are a $ 1 piece of foam board . Just a couple of days ago a guy asked me about the SE , and then asked if I could make him one . Sold him one the next day , then went to the LHS with him where he bought a DX6i , another plane ( Electrifly Flylite ) and a small heli . His wife already hates me !
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Old Aug 31, 2012, 11:44 AM
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USA, IL, Wheaton
Joined Oct 2010
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Super Easy Last Bits

I’ve added the last bits to my Super Easy that I discussed earlier in the month.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=166

I used wire ties and bits of plastic tubing to anchor the DuBro push rod tubing to the foam board, as shown in the picture. The control horns on the elevators were scrounged from the parts bin and were attached with 2 screws and some outdoor double stick tape The push rods themselves are 0.032 inch music wire. I put a Z-bend at the servo end, and a 90 degree bend at the control horn. I used DuBro EZ links (Cat. No. 920) sized for 0.047 wire to keep the push rod from coming out of the horn, with a bit of silicone fuel tubing to keep the EZ links from coming off the wire. I put an a sideways Z in the wires so I could adjust their length. The elevators have ¼ inch up (reflex) at neutral. The rudder control horn is a DuBro Micro Adjustable Control Horn (Cat. No. 935) that uses a tab threaded on a screw to attach the push rod to the horn. Otherwise, the rudder push rod guide tube was attached to the keel the same way as the elevator ones were attached to the wing.

I made a 6 inch long by 2.5 inch wide battery protection pod from ¾ inch EPS foam board and some EPP sheet scrap. I used the foam board for the first layer after I figured out how far forward I could put the battery. The next picture shows those blocks attached to the keel with quick drying PU Gorilla Glue. On the battery side, the pocket for the front of the battery was not thick enough, so I made a shim with ¼ thick EPP. I used the same sheet to cover the foam on both sides, as shown in the third picture. This also shows how the front of the battery fits the slot. To finish this, I added a piece of 1 inch thick soft scrap EPP to the bottom as a skid, and the whole assembly is shown in the last picture.

These parts added 33 grams to the airframe, which now weighs 445 grams, nearly 16 ounces, of which 309 grams is the foam board. The motor and the rest of the E- gear weighs 128 grams (4.5 ounces) which brings the total without battery weight to 573 grams (20.2 ounces). The battery weighs 116 grams (4.1 ounces) and the CG of the battery on its mount is at 6 inches back of the nose.

The big question now is “does it balance at 14 inches back of the nose?” Unfortunately it doesn’t, with a CG of about 15.3 inches back of the nose. Since the total weight is 24.3 ounces, we need to counteract 24.3 ounces X 1.3 inches, or 32.4 ounce- inches of moment back of the desired CG. I need to put some weight in as close to the nose as possible to balance this out. If I add 75 grams (2.6 ounces) of lead fishing weights at 2 inches from the nose, or 12 inches in front of the desired CG, I’ll get a negative moment of 32 ounce-inches and everything should balance out. I put the weights on the nose and it seemed to work. I’ll cut a pocket in the nose pod opposite the battery for the weights, and everything should be fine, except for a fairly porky all up weight of 27 ounces.

Where does all this excess weight come from? Mostly from using the Elmer’s foam board instead of the Dollar Tree stuff. The triangular shape of the Super Easy makes finding the CG of the foam itself fairly easy to get from a TurboCad drawing of the parts. It’s roughly 21 inches back of the nose, or 7 inches back of the target CG. The extra triangle of foam I put at the nose helped some, but the CG of the foam was at 19.3 inches back of the nose, and the foam weighed almost 11 ounces with the paper on, so it contributed 58 ounce-inches to the moment back of the target CG that needed balancing out by moving the battery and adding lead.

If I’d used the Dollar Tree stuff with the paper on, the foam parts should have weighed about 143 grams (5 ounces) with no doubler at the nose, and the contribution to the moment back of the target CG would only be 34 ounce-inches. I wouldn’t have needed extra lead in the nose, and the combination of the battery position and the nose pod would have been enough to balance that out. All up weight would have dropped 8.5 ounces, about 32%, to 18.5 ounces.

Using the Dollar Tree Foam with colored packing tape would have made things a little easier to balance out. I figure the foam without paper would have weighed only 67 grams for the 750 square inches, but the 1500 square inches of tape would have added 61 grams more, for a total of 128 grams (4.5 ounces), a bit lighter than the paper covered version. The all up weight would be about 18 ounces, and the battery might be shifted back about an inch to start with for a bit more adjustment flexibility.

The nice part about the Super Easy and other foam board planes is that for a few bucks I can transfer my gear to one of these alternatives and see how they fly.

Keep 'em Fying

Joe
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Old Aug 31, 2012, 01:15 PM
Hot glue held together by foam
United States, WA, Vancouver
Joined Aug 2010
2,563 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuPageJoe View Post
I’ve added the last bits to my Super Easy that I discussed earlier in the month.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=166

I used wire ties and bits of plastic tubing to anchor the DuBro push rod tubing to the foam board, as shown in the picture. The control horns on the elevators were scrounged from the parts bin and were attached with 2 screws and some outdoor double stick tape The push rods themselves are 0.032 inch music wire. I put a Z-bend at the servo end, and a 90 degree bend at the control horn. I used DuBro EZ links (Cat. No. 920) sized for 0.047 wire to keep the push rod from coming out of the horn, with a bit of silicone fuel tubing to keep the EZ links from coming off the wire. I put an a sideways Z in the wires so I could adjust their length. The elevators have ¼ inch up (reflex) at neutral. The rudder control horn is a DuBro Micro Adjustable Control Horn (Cat. No. 935) that uses a tab threaded on a screw to attach the push rod to the horn. Otherwise, the rudder push rod guide tube was attached to the keel the same way as the elevator ones were attached to the wing.

I made a 6 inch long by 2.5 inch wide battery protection pod from ¾ inch EPS foam board and some EPP sheet scrap. I used the foam board for the first layer after I figured out how far forward I could put the battery. The next picture shows those blocks attached to the keel with quick drying PU Gorilla Glue. On the battery side, the pocket for the front of the battery was not thick enough, so I made a shim with ¼ thick EPP. I used the same sheet to cover the foam on both sides, as shown in the third picture. This also shows how the front of the battery fits the slot. To finish this, I added a piece of 1 inch thick soft scrap EPP to the bottom as a skid, and the whole assembly is shown in the last picture.

These parts added 33 grams to the airframe, which now weighs 445 grams, nearly 16 ounces, of which 309 grams is the foam board. The motor and the rest of the E- gear weighs 128 grams (4.5 ounces) which brings the total without battery weight to 573 grams (20.2 ounces). The battery weighs 116 grams (4.1 ounces) and the CG of the battery on its mount is at 6 inches back of the nose.

The big question now is “does it balance at 14 inches back of the nose?” Unfortunately it doesn’t, with a CG of about 15.3 inches back of the nose. Since the total weight is 24.3 ounces, we need to counteract 24.3 ounces X 1.3 inches, or 32.4 ounce- inches of moment back of the desired CG. I need to put some weight in as close to the nose as possible to balance this out. If I add 75 grams (2.6 ounces) of lead fishing weights at 2 inches from the nose, or 12 inches in front of the desired CG, I’ll get a negative moment of 32 ounce-inches and everything should balance out. I put the weights on the nose and it seemed to work. I’ll cut a pocket in the nose pod opposite the battery for the weights, and everything should be fine, except for a fairly porky all up weight of 27 ounces.

Where does all this excess weight come from? Mostly from using the Elmer’s foam board instead of the Dollar Tree stuff. The triangular shape of the Super Easy makes finding the CG of the foam itself fairly easy to get from a TurboCad drawing of the parts. It’s roughly 21 inches back of the nose, or 7 inches back of the target CG. The extra triangle of foam I put at the nose helped some, but the CG of the foam was at 19.3 inches back of the nose, and the foam weighed almost 11 ounces with the paper on, so it contributed 58 ounce-inches to the moment back of the target CG that needed balancing out by moving the battery and adding lead.

If I’d used the Dollar Tree stuff with the paper on, the foam parts should have weighed about 143 grams (5 ounces) with no doubler at the nose, and the contribution to the moment back of the target CG would only be 34 ounce-inches. I wouldn’t have needed extra lead in the nose, and the combination of the battery position and the nose pod would have been enough to balance that out. All up weight would have dropped 8.5 ounces, about 32%, to 18.5 ounces.

Using the Dollar Tree Foam with colored packing tape would have made things a little easier to balance out. I figure the foam without paper would have weighed only 67 grams for the 750 square inches, but the 1500 square inches of tape would have added 61 grams more, for a total of 128 grams (4.5 ounces), a bit lighter than the paper covered version. The all up weight would be about 18 ounces, and the battery might be shifted back about an inch to start with for a bit more adjustment flexibility.

The nice part about the Super Easy and other foam board planes is that for a few bucks I can transfer my gear to one of these alternatives and see how they fly.

Keep 'em Fying

Joe
When's the maiden flight ? Video if you can !
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Old Sep 01, 2012, 02:42 AM
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United States, AZ, Phoenix
Joined May 2012
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I'm outfitted and ready to go. Don't know when I will maiden though. I'm having a severe flare in the arthritis in my spine. Hopefully this ones not going to stick around too long and I will be able to enjoy at least part of my weekend.

I cranked her up in the living room and could not make it past 1/2 throttle. it literally screams like something is being killed. Freaked everyone out when I did it. Initial flight will be on a 2s and then will go to the 3s. I learned from your battery incident and have Velcro as well as a Velcro loop holding it in place.

Here is a pic... mess in the background is a nutball and an SE5 i just cannot seem to finish.

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Old Sep 01, 2012, 02:44 AM
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Joe

Lets see that monster fly!!!

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Old Sep 01, 2012, 02:53 AM
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United States, AZ, Phoenix
Joined May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balsa or carbon View Post
Looks GOOD ! I can't tell from the photo if there's a KFm on it .When you fly it , just remember , " altitude is your friend " !
Where I fly people are always asking about the planes , they're amazed to find out the airframes are a $ 1 piece of foam board . Just a couple of days ago a guy asked me about the SE , and then asked if I could make him one . Sold him one the next day , then went to the LHS with him where he bought a DX6i , another plane ( Electrifly Flylite ) and a small heli . His wife already hates me !
That flylite looks kinda like my BluBaby. Price surprised me. Quite cheap. His wife should not complain lol... Not like he came home with a new camaro.

I always take it high first few flights. Have not crashed anything due to pilot error in a while so knock on wood... And my son inlaw is back on the nutball for a while. Hes using my gear...

Nightstone
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Old Sep 01, 2012, 10:33 AM
Hot glue held together by foam
United States, WA, Vancouver
Joined Aug 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightstone View Post
I'm outfitted and ready to go. Don't know when I will maiden though. I'm having a severe flare in the arthritis in my spine. Hopefully this ones not going to stick around too long and I will be able to enjoy at least part of my weekend.

I cranked her up in the living room and could not make it past 1/2 throttle. it literally screams like something is being killed. Freaked everyone out when I did it. Initial flight will be on a 2s and then will go to the 3s. I learned from your battery incident and have Velcro as well as a Velcro loop holding it in place.

Here is a pic... mess in the background is a nutball and an SE5 i just cannot seem to finish.

Nightstone
Hoping you'll feel better soon , Nightstone .
Crazy how loud those high kv motors can be - like a siren ! Adds to the thrill when you're flying , though !
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