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Old Aug 26, 2012, 11:10 AM
Visitor from Reality
United States, VA, Arlington
Joined Dec 1996
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Just what I need - another project that I didn't design!

This overgrown paper airplane is cute, and there's two sheets of $store board in my shop.

Do you take the paper off the foamboard, or just use it as it comes? From my limited 'foaming', I recall that the paper is a significant portion of the weight of a sheet.

Now I need to have a scrat around for a suitable motor. This could be my second foamie, aft the inevitable NutBall - which everyone seems to have at least one of!

D
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Old Aug 26, 2012, 12:51 PM
Hot glue held together by foam
United States, WA, Vancouver
Joined Aug 2010
2,598 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightstone View Post
Al...

Here is the good, bad and broken all over the ground. First vid is my maiden on the revamp. Notice I reduced the size of the elevons. I did not go crazy on this first flight because of the winds. winds were around 10 and very thermal like ( Bumpy ). Flight went fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BScmt...ature=youtu.be

Then I let my son in law fly. He claimed he was ready to fly a non beginner plane and one that has no self righting. He did fine on the F-22 I have. But it does not really fly and is more like pushing a chunk of foam around. That and its slower. So anyways... he talked up a storm at the house about how ready he was... a short while later he got a large slice of humble pie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k12Q3...ature=youtu.be

I'm going to rebuild it this week. I think its a nice stepping stone for me in my quest to get better at flying. My son in law is going back to flying a regular Super Easy.

Nightstone
Enjoyed the first video , Diamond SE flies great ! Second video - whoops ! If you both have the same radio you could use a training wire ( any extension wire 3mm male both ends ) . I use that whenever somebody wants to try one of my jets or 3D planes .
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Old Aug 26, 2012, 12:57 PM
Hot glue held together by foam
United States, WA, Vancouver
Joined Aug 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dereck View Post
Just what I need - another project that I didn't design!

This overgrown paper airplane is cute, and there's two sheets of $store board in my shop.

Do you take the paper off the foamboard, or just use it as it comes? From my limited 'foaming', I recall that the paper is a significant portion of the weight of a sheet.

Now I need to have a scrat around for a suitable motor. This could be my second foamie, aft the inevitable NutBall - which everyone seems to have at least one of!

D
I leave the paper on and add carbon rod reinforcement . Others have taken paper off and put packing tape on . With paper on you'll probably want at least 200 watts , higher kv to keep the prop (slot) small .
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Old Aug 26, 2012, 07:30 PM
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United States, AZ, Phoenix
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Made a new one for the son in law... I was going to just do a regular one then went a bit wacko on it. 57g motor, 1200kv, 9 inch prop. 800g thrust. Put elevons on it but they are smaller. Also has a bottom KF. Will post vid when we make one. Should do vertical takeoffs with ease. Was lifting off in the living room at 1/2 throttle lol.

I'm calling this one the SEherc.

Nightstone
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Old Aug 26, 2012, 08:42 PM
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Okay... That did not work so well lol. That big motor torc's way to much to the left and the elevons do not have enough authority. So the answer is the original RET configuration.

This is how we learn.

Nightstone
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Old Aug 26, 2012, 10:51 PM
Hot glue held together by foam
United States, WA, Vancouver
Joined Aug 2010
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Originally Posted by Nightstone View Post
Okay... That did not work so well lol. That big motor torc's way to much to the left and the elevons do not have enough authority. So the answer is the original RET configuration.

This is how we learn.

Nightstone
Interesting how a little tiny rudder on the keel can do so much !
You know what might be fun to try on an SE - TWIN motors counter-rotating to cancel out each others torque . Now that the idea is my head I'm gonna have to try it ! Only question is - side by side or pusher-puller ....
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Old Aug 27, 2012, 01:12 AM
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United States, AZ, Phoenix
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Originally Posted by balsa or carbon View Post
Interesting how a little tiny rudder on the keel can do so much !
You know what might be fun to try on an SE - TWIN motors counter-rotating to cancel out each others torque . Now that the idea is my head I'm gonna have to try it ! Only question is - side by side or pusher-puller ....
Pusher puller would be a trip... One on each end.

Nightstone
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Old Aug 27, 2012, 01:48 AM
Hot glue held together by foam
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Pusher puller would be a trip... One on each end.

Nightstone
You make the pusher-puller , I'll make the side by side !
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Old Aug 27, 2012, 09:37 AM
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Bottom Rudder Effectivness

Balsa or Carbon - I seen that you had mentioned that "how a little tiny rudder on the keel can do so much" in a previous post. That got me thinking about how that would have an effect on the aircraft in regards to directional turning torque. Now I'm not by any means an aircraft designed or anything like that, but I have put together a set of drawings that explains my opinion on the bottom (keel) rudder effectivness. I 'm not sure but I think if the keel design gets hit by a cross wind, it may also tend to roll towards the wind instead of away from the wind like a top rudder might want to do.

Ed
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Old Aug 27, 2012, 12:27 PM
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United States, OR, Portland
Joined Dec 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dereck View Post
Just what I need - another project that I didn't design!

This overgrown paper airplane is cute, and there's two sheets of $store board in my shop.

Do you take the paper off the foamboard, or just use it as it comes? From my limited 'foaming', I recall that the paper is a significant portion of the weight of a sheet.

Now I need to have a scrat around for a suitable motor. This could be my second foamie, aft the inevitable NutBall - which everyone seems to have at least one of!

D
I prefer paper off for two reasons. It reduces weight and I never have to deal with de-laminations of the paper. Some of my other builds with paper on ( a nutball for example) had issues where the paper would start to pull up and repair was difficult to impossible because of this. With a plane like the super easy though, experimentation is a good idea to see what you like. I find that laminating with clear and colored packing tape both makes the foam less likely to break and provides an orientation aid. I have nosed in my super easy many many times and I can just straighten out the nose and throw her back in the air.

I decided to try some larger batteries with the 3000 kv motor. I have a 5.5x4.5 apc prop and I used both a 2s and 3s 2200 mah battery. The 2s is probably just about perfect although I liked having the extra power that the 3s provided despite the extra weight. Even with the cog in the right spot it still felt a bit leaden and needed lots of power on to maintain flight. I think I prefer the floatiness you get with a lighter setup.
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Old Aug 27, 2012, 01:26 PM
Hot glue held together by foam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eboggs59 View Post
Balsa or Carbon - I seen that you had mentioned that "how a little tiny rudder on the keel can do so much" in a previous post. That got me thinking about how that would have an effect on the aircraft in regards to directional turning torque. Now I'm not by any means an aircraft designed or anything like that, but I have put together a set of drawings that explains my opinion on the bottom (keel) rudder effectivness. I 'm not sure but I think if the keel design gets hit by a cross wind, it may also tend to roll towards the wind instead of away from the wind like a top rudder might want to do.

Ed
I think you nailed it Ed !
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Old Aug 27, 2012, 01:49 PM
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USA, IL, Wheaton
Joined Oct 2010
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Slim
I've been working with the Dollar Tree foam lately, and I made a couple observations that back up what your finding.

A sheet of DT foam with paper on weighs 114 grams (27 grams / sq ft). With paper off, it weighs 53 grams (12.7 grams per square foot), so if you can stand the decreased rigidity you get quite a weight saving.

Adding tape adds weight besides helping rigidity. I used some thin colored packing tape on another project with a 2.3 square foot wing and taping it both sides added 27 grams. That's 5.9 grams per square foot, or nearly 50 grams added to a DT foam sheet taped both sides. You're still ahead 10 grams over the paper covered sheet ant the tape is way more water resistant.

Joe
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Old Aug 27, 2012, 07:27 PM
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Long Valley, NJ, USA
Joined Dec 2001
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balsa or carbon,

Nice design. I twice tried unsuccessfully over the years to make an electric paper plane. The first time 15 years ago it was too heavy with nicads.

The second time this past Winter. I tried one with the motor on the nose of an airframe of similar size as yours. This one glided well and the elevons controlled her well without power. But when the power was applied, she heeled over to the left every time. After several tries and even dropping her off a second-story deck and powering up after the glide was well established, I conceded that the behavior came from the P-factor forces at the prop. I suppose there is a long moment from the CG to the prop location - so much so that the airplane's aerodynamics at the skinny end cannot overcome the P-factor.

Problem solved with your motor mounted amidships. Probably would still be a problem with a push-pull/front-back arrangement as the front motor would still provide the unwanted sideward forces. Side by side would be fun especially if we could hang the motors on nacelles under the wing so that the props would spin more quietly in clear air.

Thanks for sharing; I've got two pieces of foamboard and your instructions ready to go as well.

Paul
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Last edited by FlyingW; Aug 27, 2012 at 07:32 PM.
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Old Aug 27, 2012, 08:22 PM
Hot glue held together by foam
United States, WA, Vancouver
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Originally Posted by FlyingW View Post
balsa or carbon,

Nice design. I twice tried unsuccessfully over the years to make an electric paper plane. The first time 15 years ago it was too heavy with nicads.

The second time this past Winter. I tried one with the motor on the nose of an airframe of similar size as yours. This one glided well and the elevons controlled her well without power. But when the power was applied, she heeled over to the left every time. After several tries and even dropping her off a second-story deck and powering up after the glide was well established, I conceded that the behavior came from the P-factor forces at the prop. I suppose there is a long moment from the CG to the prop location - so much so that the airplane's aerodynamics at the skinny end cannot overcome the P-factor.

Problem solved with your motor mounted amidships. Probably would still be a problem with a push-pull/front-back arrangement as the front motor would still provide the unwanted sideward forces. Side by side would be fun especially if we could hang the motors on nacelles under the wing so that the props would spin more quietly in clear air.

Thanks for sharing; I've got two pieces of foamboard and your instructions ready to go as well.

Paul
Looking forward to seeing your SUPER EASY ! If you can , post a video along with some pictures .

Al
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 09:14 AM
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United States, AZ, Phoenix
Joined May 2012
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Its been a rough few days for me Al... Son in law drills my DSE2 in and then yesterday my original DSE went in.

I was out flying yesterday. Was being a bit rough and flying hard when one of the elevon control horns broke loose. Horns were made out of cut up floppy disks. Anyways... Not a total loss. bent the nose a tiny bit as she ran into the side of the hill. Had to go get my wife to go fetch her as I stepped on a metal rod from one of the grand kids toys over the weekend and its not fully healed yet.

I thing i'm going to go with 2 horns per elevon on the rebuild. Split them and Y them together. Should work okay right?

I really like that original diamond shaped plane. Slow, fast and highly maneuverable.

Nightstone
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