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Old Jul 03, 2012, 12:07 PM
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Kev71H's Avatar
San Jose, California, United States
Joined Apr 2002
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To SENSOR or NOT to Sensor... That is the question.

******SO my question is……..to SENSOR or NOT TO SENSOR Choice in Motor/ESC combos.
OK, so here is the deal. I have my new SB-Pro and a BRAND new Castle Creations ESC and ready to buy a Motor…………. But…. Our bikes have a unique way to take advantage of different power abilities.
Let me start with saying that “I want to race”…therefore I want a motor that will produce power to put my bike to the limit (I can always tone it down when practicing/running dots)
~What KV motor should I choose??
~I don’t “need” to use my new Castle Creations ESC.** (If I opt for Sensored Motor/ESC combo)**

Look, I know our bikes don’t “need” a sensored motor.
After all our bikes are almost always moving and not starting from a “stop”….*unless crashed then getting back UP on the wheels which consists of a VERY LOW spool up from a STOPPED position. Therefore COGGING can happen. Therefore Sensored motors WILL BE HELPFUL in that instance.

Question: Our bikes can get very SLOW concerning cornering. Especially when entering a 90 degree corner…will “cogging” happen at such a low speed??
I didn’t really notice cogging before, BUT that does not mean that at such a LOW SPEED that accelerating out of a corner with a powerful motor MAY suffer from slight “cogging” that may upset the balance of the bike?????

I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about our bikes but “I FEEL” the smoothness of a Sensored Motor would be better than a NON-Sensored motor accelerating out of a VERY SLOW corner speed(??)

Anyone’s opinions/experiences are welcome!!

~~~ What are others using at their ESC/Motor choices??~~~~ Share?
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 12:28 PM
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snesladd's Avatar
Sverige, Stockholms Län, Stockholm
Joined Jun 2011
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TekinRS PRO 6.5T
King of smoothness properly programmed.
would be my choice if money were not an issue. but now I have to settle with the Mamba Max and a 10.5t
Sb5 (0 min 19 sec)
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 12:40 PM
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I prefer sensored, especially if there are a couple of slippery corners, as there is more low speed control. In my bikes I've used mTroniks, Speed Passion, LRP, and Castle speedos, and the combo I like best is the Castle Mamba Max Pro running sensors with LRP motors in the 4.5 to 6.5 turn range. Just take the fan off the MMPro and it fits nicely in the SB5. The Tekin is a great speedo also and is as programmable as the MMPro.
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 01:06 PM
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United States, TX, Houston
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I agree with Guidoracer. It also makes getting up from a complete stop easier. I'm running a Castle MMP(no fan) with a tekin redline 8.5 and love the combo. If I would change anything, it would be changing the motor to one with a couple of less turns.

-rskip
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 01:12 PM
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Tirol
Joined Jul 2009
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I stopped using sensor cables mid 2010.
ESC is the GM Graupner Genius 120 series (same as the CS-Electronics).
Motor is a sensorless Lehner 1920 5T Delta.
I dont think I want to touch a sensorcable again they are just too much hassle.
At the last races here in Germany/Austria the top three podiums were all
pretty much the same "combo" as described above.
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 03:55 PM
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Kev71H's Avatar
San Jose, California, United States
Joined Apr 2002
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Good input, I can't see any "disadvantage" to Sensored Motors.

Does anyone agree that "cogging" is an issue at "low speeds" like 90 degree turns? (aka very slow turns then acceleration probs concerning low end cogging)

**I didn't seem to notice...but I can't help to think that I could get some kind of low end cogging at such SLOW speeds and THAT would definitely screw up the balance in a TURN. Anyone experience this at all?




~~ one thing is for sure, cogging CAN BE a problem when the bike has to be raised from a stop by ITSELF, by slowly circling then taking off. I have experienced this multiple times.
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 04:02 PM
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Edi: Do the German and Austrian tracks have fast flowing layouts like I've seen many European tracks have or do they have tight hairpins, where you have to practically come to a stop to negotiate? If corner speed can be kept up and there is tons of traction, then I wouldn't mind using a sensorless setup for those conditions. But for unprepped tracks that are making use of limited space, I still prefer sensored.
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 04:24 PM
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Alton
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I'm using a GM90 with a hacker C40 sensorless motor and never have a problem with the motor cogging and my local track has some very tight 180 degree hairpins. In the past I've always used sensored motors as I found they were much more controllable at low throttle making it easier to get the bike out of slower corners but this setup I've found is smoother with low throttle than my old novak setup and roles through the corners better with a slotless motor.
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 05:10 PM
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United States, TX, Houston
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Cogging is not a major problem - as long as you are still moving. I have noticed some sensorless systems can be abrupt on acceleration out of slow corners though.

-rskip
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 05:16 PM
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Brisbane, Australia
Joined Sep 2003
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I'm like Matt and Edi.. In the past Ive had nothing but issues with sensored motors so Ive always gone back to sensorless..

Even with my sensored ESC/motors I run them in sensorless mode..

Our track has a tight infield and I don't have any issues with low speed chogging etc.. I run a fixed slipper too...
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 05:33 PM
RC Dirt Bike Action
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California central coast
Joined Feb 2010
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Never ran but would like to try to see the difference. Ohh this smiley is spelling it wrong.
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 06:46 PM
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Post Falls, ID United States
Joined Feb 2004
4,356 Posts
Technically non sensored ESC's are more sophisticated because they have all of the sensing circuit built in to the main board. I think for single pole motors they are good and smooth in most cases and with ESC programming they are great at slow speeds....thats been my experience since the beginning of CC Mamba 25 for mini/micro apps to present.
When you go to multi pole rotors I think the ESC has issues from time to time depending on RPM from what I have experienced so motor timing helps that. As long as the motor is turning the ESC can pick it up and go but if you are nearly stopped or stopped Ive seen them shudder.
So for my personal choice I'd go with a high end non sensored ESC and single pole rotor motor or a sensored ESC and multi pole rotor.
You may find different results depending on componenets, set up and tune I'm sure.
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 01:14 AM
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Austria
Joined Jan 2007
656 Posts
I run sensored Motors in the 1/5 Bike, and sensorless in the GPV-1. No problems in both cases with tight corners or getting up.
In the ARx Crossbike I run an Mtroniks G2 Ride with the original AR 5000kv Sensorless Motor, and in tight corners we really slam the bike on the ground, to go as tight as possible.
Limiting the Amps seems to have way more effect than using a sensored/non sensored Motor..
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 01:44 AM
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Sverige, Västra Götalands Län, Lidköping
Joined Jan 2010
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I use the CC Mamba Max Pro (with fan) and a CC 1406 4-pole 5700kv motor in my SB5. There are no problems with cogging. Just be careful with the Punch setting in the esc.
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 10:56 AM
RCMCConline com
Kev71H's Avatar
San Jose, California, United States
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All this helps
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