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Old Jul 03, 2012, 03:19 AM
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stone_axe's Avatar
Louisville, KY
Joined Apr 2001
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Why Obamacare is a Good Thing

The conservative media is attacking Obamacare and latching on to the notion that it is a tax. But it is not a tax for the majority of Americans.

For the majority of Americans that buy health insurance today there is no difference at all - except that their rates will decrease. That is the point of Obamacare - to reduce the rates for health insurance for most people.

The people that fall in to the lower income brackets that can't afford health insurance still receive healthcare and that cost is baked in to the health insurance premiums that we all pay. About a third of the health insurance premiums we pay today go to cover the cost of the uninsured. We have been paying for the uninsured all along.

With Obamacare everyone has to carry health insurance even if they are young and healthy. That might not seem like such a good deal for them and that is why they don't buy health insurance today. But that is not how insurance works. You can't buy car insurance after a wreck and you can't buy health insurance after you get sick and expect it to pay off.

Contrary to popular belief most jobs come from the large companies that already provide health insurance to their employees. Reducing the cost of health insurance to their employees is critical to these companies. Small companies that don't provide health insurance to their employees are driving up the costs for the rest of us. Small companies that can't afford to pay for health insurance aren't that successful and I don't see the need to subsidize them.

The tax that conservatives are worried about only applies to people that can afford health insurance but choose not to purchase it. Choosing not to purchase health insurance may be your right, but I have no choice when it comes to paying for your healthcare. I've been paying that tax for decades.

It is about time that everyone pulls their own weight and buys health insurance and quits relying on the government to pay their way.
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 05:20 AM
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saltyzoo's Avatar
United States, FL, Tampa
Joined May 2008
140 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by stone_axe View Post
The conservative media is attacking Obamacare and latching on to the notion that it is a tax. But it is not a tax for the majority of Americans.
Had to stop reading right there. There is nothing accurate or honest in those sentences at all.
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 05:36 AM
sensitive artsy type
Treetop's Avatar
Tucker, Georgia, United States
Joined Feb 2004
3,167 Posts
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Originally Posted by saltyzoo View Post
Had to stop reading right there. There is nothing accurate or honest in those sentences at all.
Rather than just call him dishonest, why don't you prove it with a reference? Your posting is useless otherwise.
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 05:38 AM
Let slip the dogs of war!
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United States, VA, Virginia Beach
Joined Jun 2005
1,723 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by saltyzoo View Post
Had to stop reading right there. There is nothing accurate or honest in those sentences at all.
Or this one . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by stone_axe View Post
For the majority of Americans that buy health insurance today there is no difference at all - except that their rates will decrease. That is the point of Obamacare - to reduce the rates for health insurance for most people.
The difference is that some companies will stop providing health care, because of the cost - this is happening already. The point of Obamacare is to provide health insurance for all, so this is a major failure.
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 05:40 AM
Out of Time
United States, TX
Joined Jul 2003
1,092 Posts
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Originally Posted by stone_axe View Post
The conservative media is attacking Obamacare and latching on to the notion that it is a tax. But it is not a tax for the majority of Americans.
So... it's not a tax, then it is a tax, then it's not a tax... I wish people would make up their minds about this so that we can just go ahead and repeal the entire mess no matter what it is.

Nothing you've written is actually true. The ONLY truth of Obamacare is that it gives government the right to make Americans do anything that government wishes, and that selfish, greedy Americans want producing Americans to pay their bills for them.
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 06:01 AM
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saltyzoo's Avatar
United States, FL, Tampa
Joined May 2008
140 Posts
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Originally Posted by Treetop View Post
Rather than just call him dishonest, why don't you prove it with a reference? Your posting is useless otherwise.
I need not "prove" that water is wet to anyone willing to accept reality.
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 06:11 AM
Da' Cajun
Boogie_'s Avatar
Lake Charles, Louisiana
Joined Jun 2009
2,868 Posts
Quote:
We have been paying for the uninsured all along.
Then why pass Obama (doesn't) Care.
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 06:12 AM
Bagpipes spoken here
Pipemajor's Avatar
United States, MN, St Paul
Joined Aug 2007
109 Posts
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Originally Posted by saltyzoo View Post
Had to stop reading right there. There is nothing accurate or honest in those sentences at all.
Why is it tax for me? I understand I even get a rebate next month...
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 06:24 AM
Who, ME?
dll932's Avatar
Euclid Ohio
Joined May 2005
303 Posts
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Originally Posted by Boogie_ View Post
Then why pass Obama (doesn't) Care.
Because if they have access to regular care, they won't use ER's as much, saving a TON of money.
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 06:39 AM
Unrepentant Paragon addict
LVsoaring's Avatar
United States, OK, Moore
Joined Jan 2006
2,589 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by stone_axe View Post
For the majority of Americans that buy health insurance today there is no difference at all - except that their rates will decrease. .
Kindly explain the logic underlying this conclusion......
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 06:44 AM
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United States, FL, Tampa
Joined May 2008
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Originally Posted by LVsoaring View Post
Kindly explain the logic underlying this conclusion......
Because history shows that the bueracracy behind every 2800 page law has reduced costs dramatically.
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 06:45 AM
Chillin till SEFF
bildo baggins's Avatar
Warner Robins, GA
Joined Aug 2003
14,638 Posts
There is a difference. There are a lotta differences. They may not be obvious but we will be paying more (those they currently and will still pay) regardless. Money doesn't come from nowhere, it comes from us. Is medical less expensive or just less expensive for some?

This plan is not sustainable w/o raping the current payers of even more than before. Math
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 07:20 AM
Smoke & Fire
Naja Kaouthia's Avatar
United States, TN, Maryville
Joined Jun 2001
215 Posts
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Originally Posted by Pipemajor View Post
Why is it tax for me? I understand I even get a rebate next month...
because there are 21 other taxes in this bill, plus your paying the "tax" for "free loaders" (democrats description) that cannot afford to pay
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 07:22 AM
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United States
Joined May 2000
5,151 Posts
Puts a lot of people out of work, greatly reduces the number of physicians due to lack of incentive, increases the cost of episodic care but reduces the number of episodes due to lack of supply, and adds a tax. The only positive is it increases the number of insured, who will have to wait a year to get that PET scan to tell them they have cancer that should have been dealt with last year, so they're going to die. Yeah,.. I can see where some would think this a good thing.

I've been working for a group of 120+ doctors for 18 years. We have diagnostic and treatment centers, an ambulatory surgery center, GI center, Cath lab,.. Rad Onc facility,..etc. Basically a hospital minus beds. EVERYTHING we do is less costly than the same thing in a hospital. If you read the 904 pages of the unnaffordable care act it becomes clear why our physicians are trying desperately to sell the company to a local hospital group, and sign individual contracts to work for the hospital group. It also becomes clear why we've lost more than a dozen physicians that have changed careers in the last couple years. Everyone except the physicians, PA's, and ARNP's will be looking for a job in about 6 months if this sell goes through. The doctors will have no incentive to see 20 to 45 patients per day anymore depending on specialty, they'll be reimbursed 40% less than they make now, and it will be the same if they see 1 or 100 patients. Of course this is better than making zero because they won't be able to get paid if not part of an ACO. How much medical care you think they're going to deliver??

The new tax has everyone polarized, and it's the tiniest, most insignificant negative in the entire law.

http://democrats.senate.gov/pdfs/ref...-as-passed.pdf
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 07:52 AM
Made in the USA
BE77 Pilot's Avatar
Joined May 2010
417 Posts
If obamacare is so good why are the president and congress exempt?
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