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Old Aug 05, 2012, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Frank.T View Post
The First hover, like always, first at home so if it goes wrong I don't need to walk that far

Calculations where stopped after some loops (they will run the next days) but I wanted to see the baby flying.

Wow it is stable !!

//Frank
Now you're the winner!

Can't imaging how wifey would have reacted if you sliced the curtains, though.
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 05:01 PM
DVE
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Is it possible to fly this board on default settings, without placing in the refrigerator or doing several hours PC-calculations?

I was 5-minutes ready to buy it, but stopped... I don't need mega-stable flight, but want to test missions planning and other features.
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by DVE View Post
Is it possible to fly this board on default settings, without placing in the refrigerator or doing several hours PC-calculations?

I was 5-minutes ready to buy it, but stopped... I don't need mega-stable flight, but want to test missions planning and other features.
First post:
Quote:
You should also be aware that Autoquad is a highly advanced system, and it will not fly out the box most noteably there is a calibration process that takes time and requires a fast computer to do the calculations. Patience and skill is required!
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 02:39 AM
DVE
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Hmm, I hope, developers can add some kind of "easy mode". All other boards are flying ok without many hours calibrations.

I think, its not interesting for developers to decrease their sales.
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 03:02 AM
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Originally Posted by DVE View Post
Hmm, I hope, developers can add some kind of "easy mode". All other boards are flying ok without many hours calibrations.

I think, its not interesting for developers to decrease their sales.
We're not focussing on sales - we focus on a perfect navigating aircraft.
Therefor proper calibration of the sensors is a must.

It also doesn't take "many hours" - the dynamic calibration (the Calibso dance) takes 6 minutes. All other calibrations and calculations will be done while you're just waiting for them to end. Preparation and finishing takes minutes, not hours.

btw: the AQ6 flies "ok" out of the box. I've slapped my first board on a frame without the Calibso, added some trimming on the transmitter and it flew better than anything else I had in my hands.
But "ok" is simply not good enough!
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 04:03 AM
DVE
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So, I don't need to wait being hungry several hours near closed refrigerator, board will fly without it?
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by DVE View Post
Hmm, I hope, developers can add some kind of "easy mode". All other boards are flying ok without many hours calibrations.
That's the difference in how AutoQuad approaches stability. With other boards you do not need extensive calibration/calculations, that's true, but then you will spend a lot of time fine-tuning PIDs and come out frustrated because the damn thing would not fly REALLY stable whatever you do. I've had this very experience with ArduCopter. Here you will spend one or two additional days on calibration but will get real stability without which mission flying is... questionable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DVE View Post
I think, its not interesting for developers to decrease their sales.
As far as I know, sales volume is not the primary goal for the team

Igor
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 04:49 AM
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D,
Nope. It goes in the freezer so just pull out the food you want to thaw before the series of AQ calibration freezes and thaws... The stuff in the refrigerator will always be available to you This temperature calibration process has been the "missing link" of IMU calibration perfection for hobby multicopters until Bill Nesbitt's implementation, development and coding. The resulting performance difference is amazing and makes the additional calibration efforts worthwhile.
Cheers,
Jim
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Originally Posted by DVE View Post
So, I don't need to wait being hungry several hours near closed refrigerator, board will fly without it?
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by DVE View Post
So, I don't need to wait being hungry several hours near closed refrigerator, board will fly without it?
Sorry, I don't quite get your idea. Building/tuning good copter capable of navigating a mission usually takes many days, perhaps - weeks. Why does spending a couple of days on calibration bother you so much?

And you put the board into freezing camera which novadays is usually separate from refrigerator camera, so you will still be able to get yourself a bottle of "Baltica" from refrigerator

Igor
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 06:01 AM
DVE
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Yes, I understand that additional tuning is cool, but can it be optional?

Not only for me, I know several guys that don't want to buy this board because of the difficult setup process.
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 06:02 AM
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There is difference from board to board. So while one board may fly "OK" out of the box, the next one could have a bias that makes it fly "not OK" with the default parameters. The calibration procedude takes this into account over a wide temperature range and also takes your individual frame into account.
That is the key to the "perfection" that is our aim. It is also a question of making sure that all sensors gets aligned and scaled to each other.

The purpose of Autoquad is: "To explore advanced methods and techniques for precision-control of Multirotor helicopters". As such it is not likely to get simpler, it is likely to get more advanced - and we have no plans to build a "simple mode". I still enjoy my Multiwii and OP copters and I would still suggest those platforms for people who wants something that will fly good with minimum effort.

I know the procedure can seem daunting at first but its really not too bad. And as Norbert says, most of the time is just waiting for the board to freeze/thaw and then waiting for calculations to finish.

I usually just let them run overnight and I dont sit up and look at the results. Once I have verified that the variance is correct in the beginning of a run, I will just let it run and look back in once in a while to check on the MAE.

We will of course make a special offering to the people who believed and got onboard, when we get the next run done.
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 09:48 AM
DVE
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Originally Posted by JussiH View Post
There is difference from board to board. So while one board may fly "OK" out of the box, the next one could have a bias that makes it fly "not OK" with the default parameters.
... - and we have no plans to build a "simple mode".
Its a hardware problem (this board cannot fly with easy algorithm), or you just don't want to do it?

If 1st, I can understand it, if 2nd, its strange - you only reduce the sales. There are people, who wants POI flight, Android GS and other cool features, but they don't need super-stable hovering.

But its your business, of course
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 09:52 AM
DVE
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Originally Posted by Lyagukh View Post
As far as I know, sales volume is not the primary goal for the team
I've already heard it from CopterControl team... And where are they now? Great start, and no progress last 2 years...
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVE View Post
Its a hardware problem (this board cannot fly with easy algorithm), or you just don't want to do it?

If 1st, I can understand it, if 2nd, its strange - you only reduce the sales. There are people, who wants POI flight, Android GS and other cool features, but they don't need super-stable hovering.

But its your business, of course
There is always DJI Wookong or YS-X6 if you want a close to "out of the box plug and fly experience."

Alternatively, someone could sell Autoquad RTF copters that are precalibrated for that specific configuration. For a price.

Yes, it would be hassle if the board was damaged and one would have to do the static and dynamic calibration all over again with the replacement board.
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 10:38 AM
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DVE: a super stable PH is a precondition for solid waypoint navigation and features like POI.

The fact that no other project has a routine for sensor calibration doesn't mean it isn't necessary. I'm pretty sure that DJI and ZeroUAV calibrate theirs inhouse without taking the frame into consideration like the AQ static & dynamic calibrations do.

Look at the costs of factory calibrated sensors like the VN100 - there's a reason why they cost much more than uncalibrated ones...
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