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Old Jul 01, 2012, 12:18 PM
Regards, Ingo
H205's Avatar
Germany, NRW, Lüdinghausen
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Build Log
ASG-29 1:3 from Tangent/Graupner

Hi all,

here I wrote, that the ASG-29 in 1:3 is not only a rumor, it is for real !

Ok, I'll try to give you an idea of the model, although I have to say, that my ASG-29 is a pre-production-sample! So please don't be that critical with any details or ask me, before there is a risk of getting s.th. wrong.

For finding all informations at a single point, I'll repaeat what I wrote in the other Thread:

I took the opportunity to get one of the first Tangent ASG-29 for writing a review for www.mfi-magazin.com. With today 95% of the work on the ASG-29 has been completed.

Some pictures:











(Holes are allready done in the serie)







Ok, what do I get for my money?
  • Four part wing in what is called "full-carbon technology incorporating a Carbon reinforced D-box and full-laminar support with intro leading edge and integral main-spar" (courtesy nicked from Tangent Website )
  • main-wings and outer wings already covered in white, flaps connected as elastic-flap, self sealing elastic flaps on inner flap with a cove (is that correct?) and able to go down almost 80°.
  • elevator and rudder covered, elev. also with elastic-flap.
  • composite Carbon wing joining system moulded and cutted carbon-fibre with roofmate-core
  • outer wing-connector in 10 mm carbon
  • "raw" canopy and moulded canopy-frame
  • moulded winglets
  • fuselage with integrated Carbon reinforcement
  • some glass fiber covered Plywood (nicely silver coloured) and other plywood-parts, all laser-cutted
  • universal servo frame set

In the series there will be linkages, bits&pieces a.s.o included, also most of the wooden parts and holes will be already drilled and glued in.

Building the ASG doesn't differ from building other models in this size. To cut a long story short:
  • Incidence: 1,4°
  • COG: only calculated at appr. 80 mm
  • Servos for Rudder, inner flaps, retract and tow: Graupner HVS 939 BB MG
  • Servos for middle flaps and landing flaps: Graupner HBS 660 MG BB
  • Servos for aileron and elevator (1): Graupner HVS 930 BB MG
  • Receiver: Graupner/HoTT GR-32
  • Power-supply: Emcotec DPSI Mini 6, changed for both, rec. and servos working with full voltage from
  • 2x 2s2p LiFePo 4 flat 3400 mAh, 6,6 V

On my kit there was something more to do, e.g. installing the retract including claps. Again: Pre-production!

So far for today. If anyone is interested, I'll go to the single parts and write down my impressions. Hoping you're able to understand my english
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Old Jul 02, 2012, 07:14 AM
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North Yorkshire UK, on a big hill facing the prevailing wind. Coincidence?
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Your English is fine Ingo. Better than many instruction booklets!

Please give as much info as you can thanks. Also, it is good to know how the production model will be different from yours.

Many thanks,
Rog
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 06:52 PM
Regards, Ingo
H205's Avatar
Germany, NRW, Lüdinghausen
Joined Nov 2011
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Hey there,

sorry for my late reply - there were 3B's in the last days: Been a Bit Busy .

Ok, then we'll have an additional view look at all the parts ... Let's start with what you see first: The packaging: bubble pack, bubble wrap, bubble wrap twice, each module packed in it's own bag. Very nice.

Inner wings:

As mentioned above. What else could be said? The wing-connector fits in snuggly, the brass-tubes for the outer wings are ready to use. Thick cables are already drawn-in to every servo. Not needed on the outer wing, because the original servo-cable is long enough. Ahm, "cables" I said - no plugs. Therfor I use one or two of the MPX high-current-plugs in the version of Emcotec. Stronger, black, nice . In case of the ASG two per side, welded on special PCBs from www.klapptriebwerk.de. 2 Pins each for +/- and signal.
The servos are mounted after beeing covered with shrinking-hose and glued with CA to the cover of the servo-frame. In this size I normally recommend mounting servos by screws, but here we're talking about an review, so I have to do it like Tangent want's me to do ...













I noted the weights of every single part somewhere - have to find and then will put them in here.

Outer wings

Here the same as for the inner wings. The connection to the outer servo is done by a normal UNI male/female. Remarkable: There is no gap between the inner and outer wing! Well done, Tangent !

Wooden parts

Not that much to say. All Parts are in 1/8" Plywood, covered with glass fiber in silver. No breakouts or similar, but in perfect shape. I fixed them with two Carbon-rovings and resin after cutting the needed breakouts für the Emcotec DPSI Mini-6 power-supply. Batteries are LiFePo4 2s2p 3200.

Fuselage

Big, white, fibreglass with carbon-reinforcement for retract and in the tail, peel ply where needed. The fuselage was the part, what obliged me to call Graupner/Tangent . In the end that's one of the reasons they postponed the rollout of the ASG. Conclusion: new moulds ... Remarkable! Otherwise we charge a bunch of money for this bird, so all parts have to be perfect or at least fairly perfect!

Winglets

Moulded parts, fit very neat. Holes for the connectors are already in.






Now for the parts which are not included in the kit:

Retract

Normally I build retracts on my own (see http://www.fluggeil.de/articles.php?article_id=14), but in this case I ordered one of the new carbon retracts, manufactured and sold by http://www.plott-and-fly.de/site/main.php?s=fahrwerk. For 1/3 size it's weight is 360 g, wheel-size is 4.5". I built several carbon retracts for my last projects, so i know about the difficulties cutting and turning this pre-preg stuff ... It's suspension is a smart thing and made me curious .

















In the serie the cut-out for the retract will already be done, with cutted and ready-for-mounting-claps, I've been told. Please don't mention the traces on the fuselage, have to clean it for the first roll-out

I moved the retract approx. 1" forward, to prevent it from nose-diving during take-off with the Fan-air on it's back. Not that beautiful, granted, but helpful if you don't have the possibility of aero-towing at your home base ...

Servos

I took the opportunity to equip the ASG consistently with HV-Servos, bypassing all normally needed voltage regulators. Graupner recommends the brand-new HVS/HBS (high-voltage, brushless) servos - ok we're talking about a review, so we have the chance to proof, whether "HV" is only a slogan or worth the money. Whereby the HVS/HBS aren't that more expensive than my normally used Hitec's.







RC

Apart from the discussions running here in RCG, the Graupner "HoTT"-system works perfect in my models since early 2011. High, low, nearby, far away, gas, electric, sailplane - no issues, everything just does what it should do. What couldn't always be said of my prior used Spektrum-system ... So a GR-32 took place in the ASG-29, feeded from the Emcotec DPSI Mini RV-6. The RV-6 has been modified by Emcotec to full battery-voltage output on each, receiver- and servo-output. Radio is a mc-32.





Canopy

I had to cut and mount it on my own - no statement from Graupner, if this step would be done in the serie. Hopefully, the ASG after all is called "ARF".
What else to say? Canopy-glue, hours of work . As a goody I built-in a gas spring, origin of Paritech . Hinge origin by IKEA









That's all for today. Yesterday i put in the frames for the retract and it's suspension. Tomorrow the parts for the Fan-Air (http://www.fan-air.de/) will follow, what marks the end of building this beautiful bird of prey . So after that only finish, balancing and adjusting is missing.
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 05:30 AM
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This is great Ingo! A really clear detailed review. Can't wait to hear how it flies.

Many thanks,
Rog
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 07:51 AM
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Elmhurst, NY (Queens in NYC)
Joined Apr 2004
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Rushing out right now to buy lottery tickets!

Not just for the sailplane, but the enclosed trailer and ancillary gear I will need.



See you at the field. I'm probably going to be flying my ASK-21 with AS3X technology.

(if Horizon ever gets it to us)

Edit: Actually I'd get an ASG-29 in a heartbeat, but I'm out of room! The first thing I'd buy if I won the lottery is a one bedroom house with five or six garages so I could set up shops for my various hobbies. When I say one bedroom and five or six garages I want to emphasize what's important.

Pete
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 10:53 AM
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Very nice. So when is this available and what's the likely cost?
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo320 View Post
Very nice. So when is this available and what's the likely cost?
1st September 2012.

List price 2,400 euro (...and climbing )

Love Tangent quality, but I guess Graupner do the pricing.

http://www.graupner.de/en/products/3...0/product.aspx
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 03:44 PM
Regards, Ingo
H205's Avatar
Germany, NRW, Lüdinghausen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteSchug View Post
When I say one bedroom and five or six garages I want to emphasize what's important.
Ok, so you really understood what is important in and for life

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutton Bank View Post
1st September 2012.

List price 2,400 euro (...and climbing )

Love Tangent quality, but I guess Graupner do the pricing.
That's the reason why on my opinion all parts have to be perfect. 430 bucks more and you'll get an all-moulded one from Paritech. Ok, you can't compare them, that's a different design. For speeding and some thermals from time to time there's still a (half for the moment, unfortunately ) DG-303 lying in the catacombs. For now I wanted something in 1/3 size what is more suitable for thermals and some gentle aerobatics from time to time.

Fan-Air-mount is ready to use. Tomorrow the ASG has a date at the beauty farm.
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Old Jul 06, 2012, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H205 View Post
Ok, so you really understood what is important in and for life



That's the reason why on my opinion all parts have to be perfect. 430 bucks more and you'll get an all-moulded one from Paritech. Ok, you can't compare them, that's a different design. For speeding and some thermals from time to time there's still a (half for the moment, unfortunately ) DG-303 lying in the catacombs. For now I wanted something in 1/3 size what is more suitable for thermals and some gentle aerobatics from time to time.

Fan-Air-mount is ready to use. Tomorrow the ASG has a date at the beauty farm.
http://www.paritech.de/modellbau/uebersicht.php

Your right 400 more euros and you get a the 6m ASG 29. Or a 5.33m duo discus, or a 7m ash 31 for 3000!

Why are graupner pricing them so high? Seems crazy to me.
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Old Jul 06, 2012, 05:23 AM
Regards, Ingo
H205's Avatar
Germany, NRW, Lüdinghausen
Joined Nov 2011
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"High pricing" is relative. The amount of work for such a big Bird wouldn't be less, whatever you built it off. Laminating the fuselage comes the same, but cutting foam, put some fibre on it here and there, prepare the longeron inculding the pockets, wing-connectors a.s.o., up to sanding and covering all parts takes time and man-power. So does a fully moulded plane, but in different ways. Not to forget some advantages of that kind of models (foam/abachi-wings, glass fuselage) you all know about. Not to be misunderstood: Fully-moulded rules, that's the reason I have two of this Beauties! But throwing a normal built model down into the deep doesn't make me that nervous than doing the same with a moulded one - whyever

(Pictures Gaugen, Tyrol, anno 2007)
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Old Jul 06, 2012, 11:24 AM
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Todays work ...
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Old Jul 14, 2012, 02:55 AM
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H205's Avatar
Germany, NRW, Lüdinghausen
Joined Nov 2011
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1st Maiden!

Hey there,

Rainer, the owner of the second pre-production ASG, did the maiden of his ASG-29 yesterday 500 km away in the south. Where over here floats or a submarine might be helpful, he had beautiful weather. Lucky him . Everything worked as it should, big grin for the rest of the day - and propably during the night, too . Congrats! Differences to my ASG: blue bottom side wings and pre-cutted retract-doors. He got one of the new fuselages. Damned, I should have been waiting a few days .

Now I will have to finish mine . Still have to put in the retract finally. Electric work is done, adjusting started yesterday. Only a few hours left ...

Attached some pictures from Rainer's ASG-29 maiden.
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Old Jul 14, 2012, 09:05 AM
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Very nice! We will have these models in stock late august. As well as the new ASH 31 kits.
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 07:00 AM
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asg 29 questions

Hi.
since a long time I tried to obtain detailled info on this model from Italian importer of Graupner company. No good result.
Now, here I find a lot of data...
Here I have some other questions. I need answer if possible:

weight of empty model
wing section used with camber and thikness
wingjoiner dimensions

I'm interested in this model and I need info to decide for purchasing.
thanks a lot, Massimo.
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 05:12 PM
Regards, Ingo
H205's Avatar
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Ciao Massimo,

tutto bene ? Allora, the weights as I encountered them:
  • Main wing L 2059 g, R 2051 g (covered)
  • Outer wing L 301 g, R 303 g (covered)
  • Winglets 30 g ea.
  • Elevator 179 g (covered)
  • Rudder 70 g (covered)
  • Fuselage 1503 g
  • Canopy (raw) 346 g
  • Canopy frame (raw) 369 g
  • Outer wing-joiner 34 g ea.
  • Main wing-joiner 40x20x490 mm, ~6°, 407 g
  • Wooden parts 90 g
  • Servo-covers 107 g (8 pc)
7913 g in total. Not that bad for 6m . Other weights:
  • Batteries 2s2p LiFePo 4 3400 223 g ea.
  • Receiver GR-32 Dual 26 g
  • Electric-Air-Module 41 g
  • 5x Servo Graupner HVS 939 BB 300 g
  • 3x Servo Graupner HVS 930 BB 74,1 g
  • 4x Servo Graupner HBS 660 BB 153,2 g
  • Servo JR HV 501 BB 42 g
  • Retract, 115 mm FEMA-wheel, suspension and brake 500 g
~1582 g in total. So 9495 g for all ingredients. Cables, plugs a.s.o. missing, also glue, lead and other helpful stuff

Today I took the chance for a first photo-shooting in the garden. Prior some pictures of the retract and installation of the Fanair.
















(Bet you mine's longer than yours )





Current status: Seam of the fuselage lacquered, retract fitted, everything adjusted, electrical work finished. Just covers of the landing flaps, balancing and battery-fixture missing.
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