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Old Jul 05, 2012, 12:36 PM
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TrekBiker's Avatar
United States, CA, Granite Bay
Joined Mar 2004
539 Posts
I think the reason the combined ALES e-glider and TD glider worked well at our SVSS two day event was that the ALES gliders were a seperate class and only competed against other ALES gliders using the standard 100 point TD tapes.

We already fly three classes in our TD contests, Sportsman, Expert and Masters. Why not just add ALES as a class? The ALES participants would probably outnumber the 2 or 3 Sportsman pilots that typically show up. Also, the landing handicap the non-skegged e-gliders have would no longer be a factor.

Steve
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 02:18 PM
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jtlsf5's Avatar
United States, CA, Folsom
Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekBiker View Post
I think the reason the combined ALES e-glider and TD glider worked well at our SVSS two day event was that the ALES gliders were a seperate class and only competed against other ALES gliders using the standard 100 point TD tapes.

We already fly three classes in our TD contests, Sportsman, Expert and Masters. Why not just add ALES as a class? The ALES participants would probably outnumber the 2 or 3 Sportsman pilots that typically show up. Also, the landing handicap the non-skegged e-gliders have would no longer be a factor.

Steve
Steve,
We actually only fly one class, unlimited. SVSS breaks out scores based on experience/competency level, but it is still only one flight class.

If you look at the final scores from the SSC you will note that the top ALES score handily beat the top RES score.

I am still of the opinion that a well flown/landed ALES plane is at no disadvantage to a comparable winch launched plane. If the SVSS contest gurus are willing, I'd be willing to put this to the test with Frog-E at the next monthly TD contest I can attend (August).

JT
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 09:07 PM
Always more to Xplore
SoaringDude's Avatar
near Sacramento, CA
Joined Aug 2010
789 Posts
Steve and JT,

I won't rehash my previous posts and position but I do think--ultimately--our club will need to vote on this kind of blending change. i.e. if e-planes do not fly as a separate class. To be consistent I would have to agree with whatever the club majority says it wants (i.e. not just a minority "quorum" vote, a real all-members vote).

I'm thankful for such an open RC Groups discussion, it's been helpful to hear all sides on this (sort of ).

Chris B.
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Old Jul 06, 2012, 10:52 AM
Flying = Falling (Slowly)
dharban's Avatar
Tulsa, OK
Joined May 2004
2,550 Posts
For groups that finally decide that they may have an interest is trying to blend cattle ranchers and sheep farmers, it may be useful to consider moving away from speculation and subjective comparisons as to what it takes to make it "fair" and actually base some of the new rule parameters on real OBJECTIVE observed data. It will take time to sort this all out. And during that time much valuable REAL information can be gathered and easily digested. Two areas of interest come to mind.

First, several respondents here have actually experienced some blended flying and have made general (and subjective) observations about appropriate motor cut-off altitudes. This is good -- and interesting. But in the absence of some idea of the real distances to winch turnarounds and the actual expected TD launch height these observations are of limited value. It is very, very easy to obtain information on real expected TD launch altitudes versus winch turnaround distances even in the absence of blended contests. Such information can be gathered at any of the many TD contests that are held all over the country by simply equipping some of the planes with logging devices. I would be pleased to furnish loggers to interested parties to gather such information. In time, many data points may furnish a reasonable basis for setting motor cut-off altitudes.

As to landings, again, gathering information from various ALES, TD and blended contests will provide an objective starting point for working our way through the issue of dealing with landings. Landing scores from TD and ALES contests can be examined to see just how things are working right now -- and perhaps reduce our reliance on speculation and/or one-off observations to figure out how to deal with this fairly.

Finally, many of us are coming at this as if we were inventing the wheel for the first time. We are not. Blended events are being flown in the UK and rules are evolving to satisfy everyone's need for fairness. I think their specified distance to winch turnarounds is fixed at 150m (I suspect they are using monofilament lines and they reduced the motor cut off altitude from 200m to 150m after their initial experience. At any rate, if there is real interest in coming up with rules for blending the classes we might be well served to investigate the experience of others in doing this.

Finally, and not wanting to rain on anyone's parade, it seems to me that results from true "blended" events may not be counted toward LSF goals at this time. This does not mean squat at this time to eSoarers, who clearly cannot count their efforts toward LSF goals anyway. But it might be material to TD pilots who probably could not count efforts that included electric planes.

Anyway, food for thought.

Happy Landings,

Don
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