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Old Jul 20, 2012, 11:38 AM
"Add Lightness"..Colin Chapman
Keystone State, USA
Joined Jun 2007
1,172 Posts
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Originally Posted by Spitfire22 View Post
Hey guys,
Just had kinda a fast landing that ended me up smacking into a car tire on when it was rolling, the plane is completely fine there's just some ugly damage to the nose (which i find to be the weak spot on the plane), is there an effective way of reshaping the foam?
The hot water trick DOES work on this plane and the foam. Boil some water, let it sit for about a min to cool and then dip in the nose or just pour water over the spots that are damaged. Foam will expand back to normal. If you DIP it in the water only do it for about 10-15 secs at a time. Too much exposure will over expand the foam cells and it will look like alligator skin!
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Old Jul 20, 2012, 12:26 PM
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WBKelsoe's Avatar
Canada, ON, Ottawa
Joined Mar 2012
281 Posts
Damping

Yup, I understand damping, and this is what I interpreted the system to be. Meaning that the attitude of the aircraft while initializing should not really matter. It should watch for uncommanded accelerations and correct accordingly.

I have to re-look at the manual then, you point out that it says the orientation is not important.

What happened: It was the second or third flight of the day. When flying, it tended to roll left, I had to trim right 3 or 4 clicks right (it did not have this problem previous flights).

After landing I checked the ailerons and when unpowered, they did not need mechanincal trim... Both were flush with the wing.

So I guess it was probably initialized improperly. Somehow it must have moved during initialization. I'll experiment on this..

After thinking this through, it should have been obvious. The initial attitude should not be considered by the system. Not because it can't remember it, or the trouble of confirming up/down (ie additional sensors) but because you don't want the aircraft to fight to go back to the initial conditions. Or else the aircraft would not let you manover, it would fight every attempt to move it from the origial initializing attitude... Meaning no turns, rolls flying upside down, etc.

Gods! It would be like.... a transport or maritime patrol aircraft... with a coffee maker and a crapper. Ugh...
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Old Jul 20, 2012, 12:42 PM
QuAd FaNaTiC
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Canada
Joined Aug 2009
21,368 Posts
No my sabre has more power than my buddies mig!
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Old Jul 20, 2012, 12:42 PM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
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East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
12,493 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by WBKelsoe View Post
Yup, I understand damping, and this is what I interpreted the system to be. Meaning that the attitude of the aircraft while initializing should not really matter. It should watch for uncommanded accelerations and correct accordingly.

I have to re-look at the manual then, you point out that it says the orientation is not important.

What happened: It was the second or third flight of the day. When flying, it tended to roll left, I had to trim right 3 or 4 clicks right (it did not have this problem previous flights).

After landing I checked the ailerons and when unpowered, they did not need mechanincal trim... Both were flush with the wing.

So I guess it was probably initialized improperly. Somehow it must have moved during initialization. I'll experiment on this..

After thinking this through, it should have been obvious. The initial attitude should not be considered by the system. Not because it can't remember it, or the trouble of confirming up/down (ie additional sensors) but because you don't want the aircraft to fight to go back to the initial conditions. Or else the aircraft would not let you manover, it would fight every attempt to move it from the origial initializing attitude... Meaning no turns, rolls flying upside down, etc.

Gods! It would be like.... a transport or maritime patrol aircraft... with a coffee maker and a crapper. Ugh...

Now that was funny! And you're right. There are systems (such as Eagle Tree's Guardian 2D/3D) that can be switched between auto-level mode (where a given stick-angle commands a particular attitude & the plane returns to level flight when the sticks are released) & a mode that behaves like AS3X.

BTW - wind can affect initialization if it's strong enough to wiggle the plane slightly during the process.

Joel
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Old Jul 20, 2012, 01:15 PM
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United States, CA, Sebastopol
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Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
BTW - wind can affect initialization if it's strong enough to wiggle the plane slightly during the process.

Joel
I've flown is such windy conditions I have to shield the plane with my jacket to get it still enough for initialization. I stop flying when my eyes are watering too much in the wind. Funny... AS3X planes can fly in conditions I need goggles for!
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Old Jul 20, 2012, 01:17 PM
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United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Jun 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WBKelsoe View Post
This is my first (toy) aircraft
That is a model aircraft sir, and will be referred to as such!



Did you check the rudder? Some people had loose attachements between the upper and lower rudder halves.
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Old Jul 20, 2012, 01:27 PM
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WBKelsoe's Avatar
Canada, ON, Ottawa
Joined Mar 2012
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It's good

Quote:
Originally Posted by xmech2k View Post
That is a model aircraft sir, and will be referred to as such!



Did you check the rudder? Some people had loose attachements between the upper and lower rudder halves.
The aircraft is good. It was windy when all of this happened, I guess the wind moved the aircraft a bit when it initialized. ...and yes, by jove, it is a remotely piloted aircraft, Sir, I misspoke.
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Old Jul 20, 2012, 01:28 PM
Dixie Normious
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Can A da....Ehh!!
Joined May 2010
5,626 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors edge 29 View Post
Yeh but his one aileron doesnt have barely any down deflection! Servo works fine

Its weird

But

It flies okay
Heres a few pics of mine on H/R's and L/R's
If its this amount its normal... deferential
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Old Jul 20, 2012, 01:29 PM
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United States, CA, Sebastopol
Joined Dec 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WBKelsoe View Post
The aircraft is good. It was windy when all of this happened, I guess the wind moved the aircraft a bit when it initialized. ...and yes, by jove, it is a remotely piloted aircraft, Sir, I misspoke.
Har... now that is the correct technical term. It also makes my wife laugh. She doesn't get it.
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Old Jul 20, 2012, 01:29 PM
when down=up, up=expensive
whichwaysup's Avatar
United States, VA, Roanoke
Joined Apr 2012
3,120 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
WBKelsoe,

Many of us have been flying AS3X-equipped aircraft since the mCP X came out, and we know how the system works. As PawnBoy noted - AS3X is simply a 3-axis gyro-based damping system - nothing more. It is impossible for a gyro to have a sense of up or down. Sensing orientation requires a 3-axis accelerometer or magnetometer, and AS3X doesn't have either one. Therefore, AS3X does not have any means of "knowing" the orientation of the aircraft. As it states in the manuals, orientation is not important when initializing AS3X-equipped planes & heils. The only requirement is than the aircraft remains motionless during the process.

BTW - you're supposed to trim AS3X planes mechanically, as AS3X interprets anything more than about 3 clicks of tx trim as pilot input, which will screw-up the system. I'm not sure what caused the behavior you observed, but it is not in any way related to the orientation of the plane during the initialization process.

Joel
Joel et al. -

I've read this here and in the manual, but on my MSRX I've found that if it is not initialized level, it's flight characteristics reflect the angle it was initialized on. I may VERY well be imagining this (and I don't have it here with me to test it, unfortunately), but does AS3X work differently somehow on the MSRX/helis? I've never noticed this with the Gee Bee, just the MSRX. Having said that, I'm not a big heli guy, and the little bird leaves me generally confused, terrified, and often ducking, so this may all be in my head. Perhaps it's just a way to rationalize my poor heli piloting skills.
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Old Jul 20, 2012, 01:37 PM
BMFA 190658
SilentPilot's Avatar
United Kingdom, Yeadon
Joined Mar 2007
4,793 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastcoast78 View Post
Heres a few pics of mine on H/R's and L/R's
If its this amount its normal... deferential
That looks just fine. Exactly how aileron differential should work!

I looked several times at each and on low rates there may be slightly more down on port than starboard, certainly within limits though
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Old Jul 20, 2012, 01:39 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, Sebastopol
Joined Dec 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whichwaysup View Post
Joel et al. -

I've read this here and in the manual, but on my MSRX I've found that if it is not initialized level, it's flight characteristics reflect the angle it was initialized on. I may VERY well be imagining this (and I don't have it here with me to test it, unfortunately), but does AS3X work differently somehow on the MSRX/helis? I've never noticed this with the Gee Bee, just the MSRX. Having said that, I'm not a big heli guy, and the little bird leaves me generally confused, terrified, and often ducking, so this may all be in my head. Perhaps it's just a way to rationalize my poor heli piloting skills.
I plug in the battery on the mCPx with it on it's side because it's easier for my big fingers. It flies fine.
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Old Jul 20, 2012, 01:54 PM
when down=up, up=expensive
whichwaysup's Avatar
United States, VA, Roanoke
Joined Apr 2012
3,120 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post
I plug in the battery on the mCPx with it on it's side because it's easier for my big fingers. It flies fine.
Shoot. And all this time I had a perfectly logical excuse for looking like I had no idea how to fly it. Now, it's clear I just have no idea how to fly it. Ignorance was bliss.
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Old Jul 20, 2012, 02:01 PM
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TurboRacer's Avatar
United States, CT, Waterbury
Joined Oct 2002
1,936 Posts
I'm missing my Mig

Sent it to HH because of faulty rudder servo and losing bind. I hope they can fix it quickly and send it back - I'm having withdrawals!!! hahaa
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Old Jul 20, 2012, 02:57 PM
BMFA 190658
SilentPilot's Avatar
United Kingdom, Yeadon
Joined Mar 2007
4,793 Posts
Got my Mig

Forgot to take my Tx to the shop so I asked if we could trial bind it to one of their Tx's. No problems!

Took a look up the pipe. There is room to tidy the wires a bit but nothing major to report there either

Can't wait for the maiden!
As much as I would prefer ROG for the maiden my local field is belly land only. Do you need to leave the cannons off for belly landings? Also I've seen pics of the belly scuffed up so tape is going on there first.
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