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Old Aug 01, 2012, 07:19 PM
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More Flight Reports

I got a couple more flights on my ASK23 yesterday. It was a low overcast day with little wind so there was neither any thermals or orographic lift from the tree line along the field so the flights were basically powered climbs and glides.

The more I fly this one, the less I'm liking it. The stall speed is high and it has a vicious departure right into a spin without any warning. I spun it out of the bottom of a gentle loop that should not have happened, and subsequently had two more rapid departures before I recovered and that was not due to over controlling on the recoveries! Although it glides well, you have to keep the speed up and this also makes for a pretty hot landing. I have also experienced a couple of events of an unusual loss of elevator effectiveness under power when slow and nose high that I attribute to the small horizontal stab/elevator area despite generous elevator throw and the "T" tail most likely being out of the prop wash at the time.

I previously mentioned that the spinner cone just snapped into the back plate and, sure 'nuff, it returned from a flight without it. I'll just have to buy a new and better quality spinner assembly as that particular part is not available from what I can determine. Wouldn't want to spend money on the original type anyway as it's sure to be lost again. If you're wondering, it wasn't due to vibration as my prop was running very smooth.

I'm not sure yet what it's going to take to correct the issues I have experienced. I believe the wings need more washout and it needs some additional method of drag control for landings as the maximum practical spoileron deflection I have programmed isn't enough to do the job.

Ted
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Old Aug 01, 2012, 08:13 PM
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Funny, I was just preparing my own review! I just did my test flights as well, and after today's flights I decided I'll prolly try to sell it.
It's hard to put my finger on the nuances that I don't like, but foam may be one of them. I don't like the flex of the ASK or my Radian Pro...seems to fly different than wood.
But the tangible things:
All hinge-lines are extremely stiff. Aileron barely moved 1/8" at the wingtips with 1/2" at the root. With the pushrod off, I worked ALL surfaces very hard full throw back and forth and they loosened up nicely.

The elevator horn is so ridiculously close to the hinge line that the entire stab flexes badly with little elevator throw. I glued in a piece of servo horn with a piece of CF through the hole to reinforce it. (First one was too far back with too little throw, so glued another one midway).


The canopy retainer is good in theory, but easily tangles up with servo wires etc. so I cut it off and used magnets. The canopy volume is HUGE, but due to the pilot figure, care must be taken to obtain a battery that won't interfere, plus wires must be routed to the side of the battery or else canopy won't close.
These are quite simple mods and not a deal-breaker in the least.

The hollow, thin-walled aluminum wing joiner seems pathetic, but in moderate flight seems fine.
The wing-screws don't just fall out when unscrewed so it's hard to remove/disassemble the wing, and the phillips heads don't seem to be true phillips nor Posi-drive, so a smaller flat-blade screwdriver works best.

Getting to the flying:
The climb rate is absolutely amazing compared to the Radian Pro!! Not quite vertical, but close. However, there is so much UP thrust that it'll loop in a headwind if nearly full down elevator isn't applied. Since thrust angle doesn't seem easy to adjust, If I keep the plane i'll have to mix in elevator to the throttle.

The glide is pretty good, but it's not a lazy floater. Slight exaggeration, but it seems to go from one end of the sky to the other in 20 seconds or so...BUT it handles the wind WAYyyy better than the Radian Pro.

Tip stalls can be pretty nasty, but this is the only plane I've ever had that tip stalled so I can't properly judge the severity of it.

Finally, with a barely-not-straight landing, the nosewheel broke off. The sturdy "side plates" the axle goes through have holes right at the very edge with an extremely small amount of material strength, so the wire axle just breaks right through the side plate with any sort of side force.

Just my initial observation with roughly 10 flights totalling approx 1 hour.
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Old Aug 01, 2012, 08:39 PM
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oh yeah...the supplied glue is kinda wierd. It's sort of like rubber cement in that it stays flexible and tacky forever. It also takes a solid 24 hours to gave adequate bonding strength.
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Old Aug 02, 2012, 06:32 AM
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Savannah, GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cityevader View Post
<snip>
The elevator horn is so ridiculously close to the hinge line that the entire stab flexes badly with little elevator throw. I glued in a piece of servo horn with a piece of CF through the hole to reinforce it. (First one was too far back with too little throw, so glued another one midway).

Mine had the same issue, but was mostly corrected when the hinge was made to work freely.


The canopy retainer is good in theory, but easily tangles up with servo wires etc. so I cut it off and used magnets. The canopy volume is HUGE, but due to the pilot figure, care must be taken to obtain a battery that won't interfere, plus wires must be routed to the side of the battery or else canopy won't close.
These are quite simple mods and not a deal-breaker in the least.


I fully agree. A lot of lost opportunity for space there and the retainer clips are a PITA.

The hollow, thin-walled aluminum wing joiner seems pathetic, but in moderate flight seems fine.

I've put some serious "g" on mine and it shows no sign of stress or failure so I would say the joiner(s) are plenty adequate.

The wing-screws don't just fall out when unscrewed so it's hard to remove/disassemble the wing, and the phillips heads don't seem to be true phillips nor Posi-drive, so a smaller flat-blade screwdriver works best.

Mine is the same. I previously mentioned my concern over the wrenching on the screws. Strip one of the heads and you're hosed.

Getting to the flying:
The climb rate is absolutely amazing compared to the Radian Pro!! Not quite vertical, but close. However, there is so much UP thrust that it'll loop in a headwind if nearly full down elevator isn't applied. Since thrust angle doesn't seem easy to adjust, If I keep the plane i'll have to mix in elevator to the throttle.


Well, there is no such aerodynamic thing as a "headwind" for an aircraft in flight, but it does have some strange behaviors. See my comment in my previous post.

The glide is pretty good, but it's not a lazy floater. Slight exaggeration, but it seems to go from one end of the sky to the other in 20 seconds or so...BUT it handles the wind WAYyyy better than the Radian Pro.

Agree, but would also add that I feel that the dynamic stability in both pitch and roll are close to neutral. That means you are constantly having to stay on top of controlling the flight. Not at all a relaxing experience.

Tip stalls can be pretty nasty, but this is the only plane I've ever had that tip stalled so I can't properly judge the severity of it.

Although I criticized the description of tip stall in NP's video (and still differ on all of their premises regarding them such as "thin wing", etc), this one does indeed have a genuine tip stall problem. Grrr!
<snip>
Ted
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Old Aug 09, 2012, 02:45 PM
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I received the ASK 23 as a fathers day present. I am new in this hobby and my first rc plane was a Sky surfer . The ask 23 is a beautiful rc plane but although its advertised at BH as"Excellent for beginners and pilots of all skill levels. No previous experience necessary." I disagree . I stalls VERY easy , and it behaves more as a normal electric RC plane than a glider . I would advice to fly it with an instructor or a experienced pilot by your side. Its really stylish and well built but NOT easy to fly . My advice goes to all newbies as me. If one of the experience pilots could teach us how to set mixes for rudder an ailerons to make it more easy for us I will be grateful!
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Old Aug 12, 2012, 11:42 AM
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Dear Ted ,
Thank you for deep review, its very dificult not to be disappointed with BH marketing strategies when as a newbie you get a new rc plane , and find out its not a beginners plane but more or less a nightmare. I live in South America and all the process of buying, send it to a currier and importing the plane is cumbersome . Could you continue your thread with something like:

Modifications and strategies for making the ASK 23 fly able ...

Best regards

Ciruplas
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Old Aug 12, 2012, 03:18 PM
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In the terribly sue happy continent of N America, I find it alarming how saturated every marketplace is with false advertising. Just look at many infomercials on TV.
I'd wager to say that 2/3 of marketed "trainer planes" make for ridiculously difficult flights. There are certain qualities that are obvious to folks who've made it to first or second base, but for those who are just getting up to bat, the only words of encouragement they receive are from advertisers themselves. Word in big print "Trainer" does a great dis-service... and the one resource of experience, such as rcgroups, isn't there to combat the advertisements until it is too late and the plane is already broken on its first flight.

For now, continue to ask questions, and read read read.
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Old Aug 12, 2012, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciruplas View Post
Dear Ted ,
Thank you for deep review, its very dificult not to be disappointed with BH marketing strategies when as a newbie you get a new rc plane , and find out its not a beginners plane but more or less a nightmare. I live in South America and all the process of buying, send it to a currier and importing the plane is cumbersome . Could you continue your thread with something like:

Modifications and strategies for making the ASK 23 fly able ...

Best regards

Ciruplas
Ciruplas,

I understand your frustration and I plan to try some ideas I have to correct the issues we have discovered. Unfortunately, it will be a couple of weeks before I will have the time to do so. I'll be sure to post the results of anything I try and hope that others may also contribute some helpful ideas as well.

Ted
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Old Aug 12, 2012, 05:45 PM
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Thank you for your interest and help

People like you help to make the difference
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Old Aug 13, 2012, 03:07 PM
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Someone pressed the MUTE button?
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 09:29 AM
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Some Help

I got a break in the weather this past weekend and was able to get another flight on my ASK23 to try a simple solution for minimizing the tip stall problem I have experienced. All I did was to reflex both ailerons (set their neutral point up) about 2mm with a linkage adjustment.

This helped a good bit in that when I stalled the glider it didn't snap hard into a spin like it did before. It still rolls off hard to one side but the recovery is much quicker. I will try adding an additional 1 or 2 mm reflex for the next flight and see what that does.

Another "issue" with this model is that because of it's relatively heavy wing loading it flies fast with a fairly high sink rate. The glide ratio is quite good, however, and this makes it difficult (at least for me) to make accurate landings despite having spoilerons programmed. It's like the pink bunny in that it approaches flat and fast and just keeps going and going and going... It really needs flaps for both camber and landing. Some camber will also help alleviate the tip stall issue so I may have to get off my duff and cut some into the wing.

Ted
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 08:08 PM
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Ted could you fix the tail bending when you move the elevator?
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciruplas View Post
Ted could you fix the tail bending when you move the elevator?
Curious what you mean by tail bending...do you mean the stabilizer or the fin?
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Old Aug 29, 2012, 07:04 AM
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You glued a new horn "The elevator horn is so ridiculously close to the hinge line that the entire stab flexes badly with little elevator throw. I glued in a piece of servo horn with a piece of CF through the hole to reinforce it. (First one was too far back with too little throw, so glued another one midway)." i just wanted To know how Ted resolved this issue
Thank you
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Old Aug 29, 2012, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciruplas View Post
Ted could you fix the tail bending when you move the elevator?
I am using the stock setup and didn't have to do anything special. I did notice the elevator servo operation flexing the stabilizer/elevator, but after freeing up the elevator hinge and making sure the stabilizer to fin attach screws were good and tight the flexing is minimal and not a concern for me.

Ted
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