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Old Jul 02, 2012, 01:23 AM
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Australia, SA, Adelaide
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Originally Posted by Gary Cee View Post
BTW Cees

Earlwb is one of the finest people that makes contributions here . The badgering you put him through here was mindless and un-called for .


People who wear wooden shoes should avoid flaming .
and dancing, running and playing football . Cheers the pope
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Old Jul 02, 2012, 02:47 AM
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turk1's Avatar
Istanbul, Turkey
Joined Aug 2004
847 Posts
Gents I dont need any academic knowledge to adjust advance/timing on a model plane gas engine.Simply run it to WOT,begin to play hall sensor position and a friend holds a tach for me.Max. tach. shows sensor should stay there.Then tighten the screws and fly.If you consider on an unloaded prop case,then one can give a very little more advance, simply.
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Old Jul 02, 2012, 03:30 AM
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The Netherlands, OV, Almelo
Joined Nov 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turk1 View Post
Gents I dont need any academic knowledge to adjust advance/timing on a model plane gas engine.Simply run it to WOT,begin to play hall sensor position and a friend holds a tach for me.Max. tach. shows sensor should stay there.Then tighten the screws and fly.If you consider on an unloaded prop case,then one can give a very little more advance, simply.
Last step, I knock on the shoulder of my friend, he opens his eyes and I can read the ignition advance curve in the pupil of one of these.

But, I have to admit you need a special friend for that!


WOW

turk 1, I did read your story before, you don't know where I am talking about!

Have fun,


Cees
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Old Jul 02, 2012, 08:15 AM
Whatever works well .
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United States, MI, Marysville
Joined Apr 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turk1 View Post
Gents I dont need any academic knowledge to adjust advance/timing on a model plane gas engine.Simply run it to WOT,begin to play hall sensor position and a friend holds a tach for me.Max. tach. shows sensor should stay there.Then tighten the screws and fly.If you consider on an unloaded prop case,then one can give a very little more advance, simply.
Right on.

With these engines the initial , static timing is set and the running timing is easily set empirically , under actual running conditions . In the real world , very few find the need to actually measure it ..The scope can measure relative timing , trigger pulse levels and widths , firing voltages , the offsets or lags between primary trigger pulses and the secondary firing , display rise times dwells etc . Without a TDC or crank shaft rotational angle reference however the scope will not give you the actual firing point in relationship to crank angle.

In the real world the oscilloscope is very rarely used or needed by hobbyists as a tool to set timing on our engines . Repair shops that service small weed whips , leaf blowers chainsaws etc are virtually devoid of oscilloscopes as there is little application in that field.

Sure , there are those of us that understand the application and may choose to experiment/study the systems , at times using a scope . (Not really an advanced concept, we learned the principle in high school).

For years and years Turk , motorized modelers have employed the method you describe with perfect success . Thank you
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Old Jul 02, 2012, 09:04 AM
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The Netherlands, OV, Almelo
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Gents,

I did take a look and find an example of a system with predefined ignition advance curves.
Did we see this already somewhere in the model gasser world?
Have attention. because this will be the next step and if so we have to analyse the systems, especially when there can be a lack of quality or buying second hand!.


TF
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Old Jul 02, 2012, 09:09 AM
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Belgium
Joined Aug 2004
3,528 Posts
Recoil

For those living in Australia or Europe and not beeing familiar with the system
here is what I use : Recoil made in Australia and similar to the Helicoil brand.
As Gary already explained both systems do have a tap that is used to make the glowplug hole ready to take the wire (actually this looks like a spring) On the box is indicated the correct drill to be used before you put the tap to work.
In this case size 6,5mm. One side of the spring/wire does have a lateral lip into which one does fit the special tool so one can turn-in the spring. After that you simply push out that lip, there is also a rod to do so included in the kit but not shown here. One problem does occur with OS engines that do have a size reduction at the glowplug hole bottom but experience has shown this not to be a problem. I have repaired dozens of engines with stripped out plug holes. Really worth it's money. I seem to remember that it was Clarence Lee who pointed the Helicoil system out to me. I used to correspond alot with him in the past. He's an engine-guru to me and has taught me quite a few tricks.
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Old Jul 02, 2012, 09:26 AM
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Belgium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Cee View Post
Right on.

With these engines the initial , static timing is set and the running timing is easily set empirically , under actual running conditions . In the real world , very few find the need to actually measure it ..The scope can measure relative timing , trigger pulse levels and widths , firing voltages , the offsets or lags between primary trigger pulses and the secondary firing , display rise times dwells etc . Without a TDC or crank shaft rotational angle reference however the scope will not give you the actual firing point in relationship to crank angle.

In the real world the oscilloscope is very rarely used or needed by hobbyists as a tool to set timing on our engines . Repair shops that service small weed whips , leaf blowers chainsaws etc are virtually devoid of oscilloscopes as there is little application in that field.

Sure , there are those of us that understand the application and may choose to experiment/study the systems , at times using a scope . (Not really an advanced concept, we learned the principle in high school).

For years and years Turk , motorized modelers have employed the method you describe with perfect success . Thank you
Gary, are you familiar with this little device ? I bought it recently from some Hong Kong firm, have'nt tried it yet because I had not need for it yet. It has a led and sound warning. Still have a large protractor somewhere in my workshop that I used on the V-twin Jap of my (ex)Morgan 3-wheeler.
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Old Jul 02, 2012, 09:37 AM
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United States, MD, Elkton
Joined Oct 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turk1 View Post
Gents I dont need any academic knowledge to adjust advance/timing on a model plane gas engine.Simply run it to WOT,begin to play hall sensor position and a friend holds a tach for me.Max. tach. shows sensor should stay there.Then tighten the screws and fly.If you consider on an unloaded prop case,then one can give a very little more advance, simply.
WHAT !? HOW dare you !? you can only do it properly with an oscilleraiouscope,or what ever it is !!
My race cars,with automatic transmissions get Power braked ,WOT,and advanced 'till it clatters.....back off aboot 2 degrees,and WIN! another race...
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Old Jul 02, 2012, 09:42 AM
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Istanbul, Turkey
Joined Aug 2004
847 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taurus Flyer View Post
Last step, I knock on the shoulder of my friend, he opens his eyes and I can read the ignition advance curve in the pupil of one of these.

But, I have to admit you need a special friend for that!


WOW

turk 1, I did read your story before, you don't know where I am talking about!

Have fun,


Cees
Hi humoresque modeller.Whatever you may do,I dont need on my RCEXL unit except my style or wheel type adjustment. We need adjustment sure but no need any curve knowledge since we cant change anything inside.Good luck for your experiments.
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Old Jul 02, 2012, 10:03 AM
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It's beginning to make sense to me now.....I wasn't aware you needed a "special" friend. Is that an Ostrich ?and isn't his eye just the most outrageous thing you've EVER seen?
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Old Jul 02, 2012, 10:07 AM
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Chicagoland
Joined Feb 2000
7,271 Posts
I shrink fit magnet rings onto the hub or loctite them. The sensor ring is mounted with set screws. This requires the proper equipment, but the result is very nice.

Greg

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Old Jul 02, 2012, 10:10 AM
Who Dat!
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United States, LA, New Orleans
Joined Sep 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkamysz View Post
I shrink fit magnet rings onto the hub or loctite them. The sensor ring is mounted with set screws. This requires the proper equipment, but the result is very nice.

Greg

greg, thats a very elegant solution that answers a question i PM'd you about regarding a saito 91 gas conversion. that would be the way to go for sure.
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Old Jul 02, 2012, 10:24 AM
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Chicagoland
Joined Feb 2000
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I machine the OD of the nose of the crankcase to achieve a good fit to the sensor ring. This isn't practical on the Saito, nor required with those two cam cover screws handy. Also on the Saito, the slip over magnet ring can't cover the groove in the drive hub, or it won't be possible to grip with a puller to remove the hub.

Greg
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Old Jul 02, 2012, 11:15 AM
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Joined Feb 2007
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Greg, it sounds as if you like my simple fix. The sensor is a hard push and twist into the bracket, the drop of red LocTite is for, well, what should we call it?
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Old Jul 02, 2012, 12:18 PM
I bail out, anywhere, anytime
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The Netherlands, OV, Almelo
Joined Nov 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epoxyearl View Post
It's beginning to make sense to me now.....I wasn't aware you needed a "special" friend. Is that an Ostrich ?and isn't his eye just the most outrageous thing you've EVER seen?


No epoxyearl, not an Ostrich, cannot be used for that, that friend has the wrong policy to categorize problems. We don't need exuces when something happens unexpected, we need a critical friend for that, also not a trivialiser!
Give it a try, who is this friend?

"Outrageous thing" you said!

Forget your criticism for one short moment and try to make some fun with us, it's a hobby you know!

I think you are "curious thing"!!!!

Now????

Cees
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Last edited by Taurus Flyer; Jul 02, 2012 at 12:25 PM.
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