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Old Jun 28, 2012, 03:57 AM
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what is your favorite release agent and why

well the title say's it all ...

in the past i used pva and suitable wax , because it is time consuming and you risk dust, dripp's (spraying pva) and other imperfections with it i started looking after another release method , right now i'm using partall#2
the release is very good with this wax but i need to wait several hours after waxing to start painting , otherwise the paint softens the wax and reacts with it.

what is your favorite release and why? looking for high gloss , paint resistancy and less proccesing time .

thanks

-kristof-
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Old Jun 28, 2012, 10:13 AM
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Frekote - FMS Sealer with the 770-nc release.
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Old Jun 28, 2012, 12:47 PM
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Dolphin Wax. Also use Frekote 770, high gloss finish ten times better with Dolphin wax over Frecote. Have to buff out Frekote.
Frekote has better, easyer release.
Dolphin wax likes PPG Concept single stage paint.
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Old Jun 28, 2012, 02:45 PM
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adam,

how do you apply the frekote 770 nc? is it liquid? does it need to buffed immediatly ? does it allow multiple pull's? how does the mold surface look after demolding? dull or glossy?

many questions i know , thank you for answering them

thanks



-kristof-
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Old Jun 28, 2012, 04:11 PM
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Important to note that Adam uses a SEALER first!(FMS or Sealer GP)

I did not used to think it was important. Now, I know better.

Some substrates do not need it and acutally make the part NOT stay on the tool during cure.

But with a composite tool, the surface is very open and un-cured resin has lots of places to hook onto.

Scott
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Old Jun 28, 2012, 04:28 PM
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hi ,

thank u , i use solid surface material(corain) wich has been proven very hard and durable , the polished surface looks very glossy but maybe a sealer would help , i won't find out without trying i guess...

i will try to locate a source over here to get the henkel stuff (frekote)

thanks

-kristof-
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Old Jun 28, 2012, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by krikkens View Post
adam,

how do you apply the frekote 770 nc? is it liquid? does it need to buffed immediatly ? does it allow multiple pull's? how does the mold surface look after demolding? dull or glossy?
Frekote is a liquid that is the consistency of water. I take a cotton cloth, put it over the top of the can, and tip the can over on the cloth to wet it. I then use this cloth to thoroughly wipe the molding suface. I then follow immediately behind with a clean dry cloth. If you immediately wipe it off you won't get hazing or swirl marks. The finished surface is as glossy as the original mold surface. No buffing is required. Wipe on, wipe off, wait 10 minutes, and I start painting. If I'm not going to paint the mold I don't follow with the wipe off. I just wipe it on and leave it. Any haze in the part is swiftly and easy removed (see below).

The mold surface after demolding is glossy with most resins. Adtech 820 epoxy resin will leave it slightly hazy if paint isn't used in the mold. This is the only resin that does this that I've used. Resin Research 1070/3100F epoxy resin will stick like mad to Frekote even if paint in used in the mold.

Many simple shapes will allow multiple releases with Frekote. I only treat my canopy molds once for every 5 cycles. Many fuse shapes and flying surface I will get applications every 3 cycles. I apply it every time to some fuse molds that have tight corners.

I like Frekote because: 1) I get super easy releases, 2) It's very fast to apply, 3) It replicates the mold surface, 4) It's very easy to keep the mold clean and in shape, 5) It's just very very reliable with my processes, paints, and resins.

After about 30 or 40 cycles the mold will start to look a little hazy. I clean/polish every part after trimming with Meguiar's Swirl Remover 2.0. It takes about one minute to clean a fuse (2 for a wing) and any haze in the paint from the Frekote is swiftly removed with just hand work. I do this with every part before shipping regardless of the release to remove finger prints and dust. A hazy mold never bothers me since it easy to remove from the part. I typically will repolish the mold every 50 or so cycles to remove any build up. I then reapply the sealer and release.

You should test your whole system though on a sample before committing to nice mold. Some combinations don't work. I typically use aluminum and composite tools. I've only used a corian mold once for about 7 cycles with Frekote.

The largest drawback to Frekote is that it can be a little tricky to paint. You need to use mist coats first to prevent fisheyes in any heavier coats. Also semi-permanent release have a short shelf compared to waxes. The slip of the release will decrease when the product starts getting old. If it's too old it will stop releasing and the part will stick. I only use a semi for 6 to 8 months after opening the can.

The nice thing about Dolphin wax is that you can paint over it much easier. It's also easy to do more intricate designs since the mist coats aren't necessary.
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted by wyowindworks View Post
Frekote is a liquid that is the consistency of water. I take a cotton cloth, put it over the top of the can, and tip the can over on the cloth to wet it. I then use this cloth to thoroughly wipe the molding suface. I then follow immediately behind with a clean dry cloth. If you immediately wipe it off you won't get hazing or swirl marks. The finished surface is as glossy as the original mold surface. No buffing is required. Wipe on, wipe off, wait 10 minutes, and I start painting. If I'm not going to paint the mold I don't follow with the wipe off. I just wipe it on and leave it. Any haze in the part is swiftly and easy removed (see below).

The mold surface after demolding is glossy with most resins. Adtech 820 epoxy resin will leave it slightly hazy if paint isn't used in the mold. This is the only resin that does this that I've used. Resin Research 1070/3100F epoxy resin will stick like mad to Frekote even if paint in used in the mold.

Many simple shapes will allow multiple releases with Frekote. I only treat my canopy molds once for every 5 cycles. Many fuse shapes and flying surface I will get applications every 3 cycles. I apply it every time to some fuse molds that have tight corners.

I like Frekote because: 1) I get super easy releases, 2) It's very fast to apply, 3) It replicates the mold surface, 4) It's very easy to keep the mold clean and in shape, 5) It's just very very reliable with my processes, paints, and resins.

After about 30 or 40 cycles the mold will start to look a little hazy. I clean/polish every part after trimming with Meguiar's Swirl Remover 2.0. It takes about one minute to clean a fuse (2 for a wing) and any haze in the paint from the Frekote is swiftly removed with just hand work. I do this with every part before shipping regardless of the release to remove finger prints and dust. A hazy mold never bothers me since it easy to remove from the part. I typically will repolish the mold every 50 or so cycles to remove any build up. I then reapply the sealer and release.

You should test your whole system though on a sample before committing to nice mold. Some combinations don't work. I typically use aluminum and composite tools. I've only used a corian mold once for about 7 cycles with Frekote.

The largest drawback to Frekote is that it can be a little tricky to paint. You need to use mist coats first to prevent fisheyes in any heavier coats. Also semi-permanent release have a short shelf compared to waxes. The slip of the release will decrease when the product starts getting old. If it's too old it will stop releasing and the part will stick. I only use a semi for 6 to 8 months after opening the can.

The nice thing about Dolphin wax is that you can paint over it much easier. It's also easy to do more intricate designs since the mist coats aren't necessary.
thank u!

would a sealer be recommended anyway? also with a regular wax?
i have used a semi permanent yesterday on a testpiece , i waxed and buffed the mold with partall#2 let it set for a bit and then sprayed on and whiped of the semi permanent like you describe , 3 layer's of it .

the release was very good but the mold was very rough , i sprayed clear coat in the mould and i could do it in 1 layer , no ,fisheye's and i was able to spray a much thinner layer then i could do on pva..

i guess the semi permanent released from the mold cause it was waxed ...
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 08:18 AM
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You never want to mix wax with semi-permanents. For best performance the semi need to bond to the mold. The best way to remove wax from a mold is with polishing.

You should use a sealer. Many have found that a sealer improves the release when using just waxes.
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 08:37 AM
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Kristof,

Have you done releases with just Partall #2 and no paint? Or just the wax and a clear coat? I've been using Partalll #2+PVA+lacquer+MGS or Resin Research in my corian wing molds without release issues. To my knowledge this is the same process Phil uses. If I could skip the PVA step it would be really nice as I typically re-wax every 2nd-3rd pull anyway.

It would be nice to know your particular epoxy and pain combination, in addition to the release system you are using. I won't claim to speak for Tom S., but last I remember he wasn't too happy with Frekote on a corian mold with his molding process, but we both use resin research occasionally so that may be the primary issue.

I've looked into using McLube's products for release and have a sample here that I still need to try, problem is I don't have a mold sealer.

Adam,

Do you have a preferred mold sealer? I'm looking at ordering the "TR-301 Sealer Glaze" from http://sweetcomposites.com/Misc.html#PVA

Thanks,
Sam
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 09:21 AM
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Adam,

Do you have a preferred mold sealer? I'm looking at ordering the "TR-301 Sealer Glaze" from http://sweetcomposites.com/Misc.html#PVA
I use Frekote FMS mold sealer. In my opinion you should use the sealer that is specified for your semi-permanent release. If you are sealing a mold for wax I'm not to sure that the sealer choice is all that critical.

Resin Research resin and any semi-permanent is bad news. I've tried Zyvax, McLube, and Frekote with Resin Research and had sticking issues. The first release will release o.k. but the second and third will be very difficult.

I should state that 90% of my Frekote experience is with in mold paint processes. Paint, in the right combination, makes everything go faster and easier. Faster layups, fewer pinholes, better releases, easier mold clean-up, and more mold longevity.
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 10:46 AM
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I use Frekote FMS mold sealer. In my opinion you should use the sealer that is specified for your semi-permanent release. If you are sealing a mold for wax I'm not to sure that the sealer choice is all that critical.

Resin Research resin and any semi-permanent is bad news. I've tried Zyvax, McLube, and Frekote with Resin Research and had sticking issues. The first release will release o.k. but the second and third will be very difficult.

I should state that 90% of my Frekote experience is with in mold paint processes. Paint, in the right combination, makes everything go faster and easier. Faster layups, fewer pinholes, better releases, easier mold clean-up, and more mold longevity.
i have contacted henkel belgium and they directed me to a nearby supplier , the guy was gonna visit me next week with some samples of the frekote products , i hope something usefull is among them..

you said you have a corian mold ? did you used the sealer and 770 on it?

thanks for your'e help

-kristof-
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by krikkens View Post
i have contacted henkel belgium and they directed me to a nearby supplier , the guy was gonna visit me next week with some samples of the frekote products , i hope something usefull is among them..

you said you have a corian mold ? did you used the sealer and 770 on it?

thanks for your'e help

-kristof-
I used the FMS sealer and the 770-nc release on the corian mold. I only had to produce 7 parts from the mold so it didn't get lots of use.
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 11:25 AM
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I used the FMS sealer and the 770-nc release on the corian mold. I only had to produce 7 parts from the mold so it didn't get lots of use.
i take you are satisfied with this combo as till now?

-kristof-
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by krikkens View Post
i take you are satisfied with this combo as till now?

-kristof-
I used MGS resin and Deltron Concept paint. Everything worked well for the 7 parts.
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