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Old Jun 23, 2012, 10:18 PM
Who, ME?
dll932's Avatar
Euclid Ohio
Joined May 2005
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Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
Let me ask you this ... what was the Democratic priority on day one of Bush's first term?

It's silly and intellectually dishonest for anyone to sit here and point fingers when we ALL know both parties are equally guilty of doing the exact same thing as the other.

The hypocrisy of it all astounds me ... but what amazes me even more is how many on each side is willing to buy it hook line and sinker that one side is some how more "pure" than the other.
BOTH are true: Politics is dirtier than war. Obama IS getting a dirty deal, but he chose this trip. NO president would look good in these times.
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Old Jun 23, 2012, 10:21 PM
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Houston Ellington, Texas, United States
Joined Feb 2001
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Originally Posted by dll932 View Post
BOTH are true: Politics is dirtier than war. Obama IS getting a dirty deal, but he chose this trip. NO president would look good in these times.
That's right .. He did choose this trip. And one would have thought that the time to end finger pointing was several years ago ... it's called responsibility.
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Old Jun 23, 2012, 10:37 PM
Who, ME?
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Euclid Ohio
Joined May 2005
305 Posts
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Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
That's right .. He did choose this trip. And one would have thought that the time to end finger pointing was several years ago ... it's called responsibility.
That doesn't happen in DC.
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Old Jun 23, 2012, 10:43 PM
No retreat no surrender
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USA, WI, Milwaukee
Joined Apr 1999
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Or on LTUP
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Old Jun 23, 2012, 10:43 PM
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Houston Ellington, Texas, United States
Joined Feb 2001
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Originally Posted by dll932 View Post
That doesn't happen in DC.
on this, we can agree.
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Old Jun 24, 2012, 12:48 AM
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Lyle, WA
Joined Dec 2000
1,478 Posts
The OP angle is really interesting. As I noted, first it punctures the classical, and always completely false, notion that Hoover was a 'do nothing' president. He intervened everywhere he could using most of the notions we are told today must be done...protectionism, public spending, etc.

Then, it proceeds to complain that the right has drifted far from Hoover...as if moving away from actions making the depression even worse is a bad direction to go.

I can't figure out the intent of starting this line of argument. It admits Hoover was far from do nothing, the fact is his actions fixed nothing and indeed made it all worse, and after ceding the false ground of Hoover as a do nothing, complains Republicans won't engage in undertaking flawed actions?
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Old Jun 24, 2012, 05:20 AM
Let slip the dogs of war!
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United States, VA, Virginia Beach
Joined Jun 2005
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Originally Posted by MtnGoat View Post
The OP angle is really interesting. As I noted, first it punctures the classical, and always completely false, notion that Hoover was a 'do nothing' president. He intervened everywhere he could using most of the notions we are told today must be done...protectionism, public spending, etc.

Then, it proceeds to complain that the right has drifted far from Hoover...as if moving away from actions making the depression even worse is a bad direction to go.

I can't figure out the intent of starting this line of argument. It admits Hoover was far from do nothing, the fact is his actions fixed nothing and indeed made it all worse, and after ceding the false ground of Hoover as a do nothing, complains Republicans won't engage in undertaking flawed actions?
Well said goat. This derived talking point is just another attempt to show that Obama's failures were perpetrated in the past by a GOP president; so we should forgive O I suppose? I thought the intelligentsia would learn from history's mistakes.

Then of course someone comes in and throws the "Bush card" - what a surprise there
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Old Jun 24, 2012, 06:52 AM
Bagpipes spoken here
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United States, MN, St Paul
Joined Aug 2007
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Originally Posted by MtnGoat View Post
The OP angle is really interesting. As I noted, first it punctures the classical, and always completely false, notion that Hoover was a 'do nothing' president. He intervened everywhere he could using most of the notions we are told today must be done...protectionism, public spending, etc.

Then, it proceeds to complain that the right has drifted far from Hoover...as if moving away from actions making the depression even worse is a bad direction to go.

I can't figure out the intent of starting this line of argument. It admits Hoover was far from do nothing, the fact is his actions fixed nothing and indeed made it all worse, and after ceding the false ground of Hoover as a do nothing, complains Republicans won't engage in undertaking flawed actions?
You can't figure out the OP because you are looking only for fault with a particular ideology. Hoover's actions did lessen the immediate impact of the 1929 crash but, the global depression began in earnest after the Smoot-Hawley Tariff was enacted in January, 1930 and caused U.S. international trade to fall by 50%. Senator Reed Smoot (R-UT) was an Apostle in the Mormon Church. Congressman Willis Hawley (R-OR) was a former Willamatte University president.

FDR continued his New Deal programs but never gave up on trying to balance the budget. Many (most) economists say the recession was prolonged by NOT spending enough money to fully revive the economy until our entry into WWII necessitated it.

My intent was to draw on similarities between the 1930s and today. Austerity is not the solution. Neither is the Mormon Church.
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Old Jun 24, 2012, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Pipemajor View Post
You can't figure out the OP because you are looking only for fault with a particular ideology. Hoover's actions did lessen the immediate impact of the 1929 crash but, the global depression began in earnest after the Smoot-Hawley Tariff was enacted in January, 1930 and caused U.S. international trade to fall by 50%. Senator Reed Smoot (R-UT) was an Apostle in the Mormon Church. Congressman Willis Hawley (R-OR) was a former Willamatte University president.

FDR continued his New Deal programs but never gave up on trying to balance the budget. Many (most) economists say the recession was prolonged by NOT spending enough money to fully revive the economy until our entry into WWII necessitated it.

My intent was to draw on similarities between the 1930s and today. Austerity is not the solution. Neither is the Mormon Church.
So we can count on bad things to happen if a Mormon is elected as president?

It's funny that so many people get bent out of shape when you point out that their president is a muslim and then those same people want to use religion as a fulcrum point for deciding on another president.
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Old Jun 24, 2012, 07:12 AM
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Houston Ellington, Texas, United States
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Originally Posted by Gooroo View Post
So we can count on bad things to happen if a Mormon is elected as president?

It's funny that so many people get bent out of shape when you point out that their president is a muslim and then those same people want to use religion as a fulcrum point for deciding on another president.
No ... there are no bigots on the left... There's is a pure and honest ideology.
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Old Jun 24, 2012, 08:24 AM
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Backwoods Alabama
Joined May 2000
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Originally Posted by MtnGoat View Post
The OP angle is really interesting...first it punctures...
then, it proceeds...I can't figure out
This would be hilarious if it weren't so funny. The OP that goat is questioning is so similar to the method he uses.

'Nuff said.
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Old Jun 24, 2012, 11:24 AM
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S. FL
Joined Jan 2007
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Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
you mean the same obstructionist congress that only got elected in 2010? Or the one that's controlled both houses back in 2008?

And if the crap sandwhich was so bad, why did he bother to beg and plead for people to give it to him? Why did he tell everyone that he wanted to have it? Why did he promise everyone that he was going to change it?

Seems to me that if you want something that bad, that once you get it, you should take ownership of it.

“He that is good for making excuses is seldom good for anything else." B. Franklin
There are more than enough DINOS (blue dog dems) that the dems never had any real control of congress as you claim. All Presidents make promises that are often not fulfilled given congress, the economy, simple reality and even unaccounted for calamities. That is the real world, not the " for political consumption" only world viewers.
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Old Jun 24, 2012, 11:33 AM
RC Newb/Gorilla Glue User
United States, OH
Joined Jul 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pipemajor View Post
You can't figure out the OP because you are looking only for fault with a particular ideology. Hoover's actions did lessen the immediate impact of the 1929 crash but, the global depression began in earnest after the Smoot-Hawley Tariff was enacted in January, 1930 and caused U.S. international trade to fall by 50%. Senator Reed Smoot (R-UT) was an Apostle in the Mormon Church. Congressman Willis Hawley (R-OR) was a former Willamatte University president.

FDR continued his New Deal programs but never gave up on trying to balance the budget. Many (most) economists say the recession was prolonged by NOT spending enough money to fully revive the economy until our entry into WWII necessitated it.

My intent was to draw on similarities between the 1930s and today. Austerity is not the solution. Neither is the Mormon Church.
Seeing how we're in the most sluggish 'recovery' (as in, not recovering) in recorded history...neither is the Church of Obama.
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Old Jun 24, 2012, 12:59 PM
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Houston Ellington, Texas, United States
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Originally Posted by WingNut64 View Post
Seeing how we're in the most sluggish 'recovery' (as in, not recovering) in recorded history...neither is the Church of Obama.
Hey now .... Don't forget we had the Summer Of Recovery back in 2010 ..... Yeah .... I didn't see it either.
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Old Jun 24, 2012, 01:24 PM
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Houston Ellington, Texas, United States
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Originally Posted by Libelle201B View Post
There are more than enough DINOS (blue dog dems) that the dems never had any real control of congress as you claim. All Presidents make promises that are often not fulfilled given congress, the economy, simple reality and even unaccounted for calamities. That is the real world, not the " for political consumption" only world viewers.
Really? Majority in the house and a super majority in the senate does not equal to control?

Those blue dogs were what gave you guys controll .... It amazes me .... Both parties rely on moderates to gain majority but are quick to blame them when things go wrong.
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