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Old Sep 14, 2012, 06:36 AM
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Denmark, Region Zealand, Jyderup
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Cant we make a tread for those who crased only so we can compare each others setup and versions??
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Old Sep 14, 2012, 06:43 AM
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Denmark, Region Zealand, Jyderup
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for those who crased please fil in youre setup

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1732106
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Old Sep 14, 2012, 06:44 AM
jab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman575 View Post
Anybody know what would happen if the ESC signal wire has a short with the + wire that's feeding the ESC ?
I still suspect that it is some kind of short that makes one ESC go full power. And the WKM just cannot compensate for that...

Just my current theory at least.
Signal is 5V and the power is 22.2v, meaning you get instant release of magic smoke stored inside the chips if that happens..
And the control signal is based on timed pulses, and not voltage anyways. So if the circuit somehow survived the result would be a motor stop, not full throttle.
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Old Sep 14, 2012, 08:06 AM
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Romania, TM, Timisoara
Joined Mar 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jab View Post
Signal is 5V and the power is 22.2v, meaning you get instant release of magic smoke stored inside the chips if that happens..
And the control signal is based on timed pulses, and not voltage anyways. So if the circuit somehow survived the result would be a motor stop, not full throttle.
Fair enough. In that case the mystery (and misery) continues...
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Old Sep 14, 2012, 09:13 AM
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United States, MI, Goodrich
Joined Mar 2004
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Originally Posted by bcollydas View Post
Hi Robert,
You are an awesome guy and and very reputable dealer. You go out of your way to help and support your customers.

But I think you are a little bias.

Since you are claiming that you sold hundreds of units, set them up and test flown and every unit stills functions well and without any crashes how about if I send you my S-800 set it up and fly test it several times. I am willing to pay for shipping there and back.

If the S-800 performs well with out any zitters of FOD then I can say that the problem is the user and the way the machine is setup.

If not then how can I get a refund on this pile of junk..


Cheers
Absolutely, we will do this for you!!!!!!

I will get to the bottom of it and do whatever we need to so you have a great flying reliable machine. To not do this would be some lousy customer service.

Email me if you need my ship to address.
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Old Sep 14, 2012, 09:25 AM
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United States, MI, Goodrich
Joined Mar 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jab View Post
Signal is 5V and the power is 22.2v, meaning you get instant release of magic smoke stored inside the chips if that happens..
And the control signal is based on timed pulses, and not voltage anyways. So if the circuit somehow survived the result would be a motor stop, not full throttle.
I find this very interesting and good information.

But, a motor stop would still cause a quick flip, at least it has on smaller Multis I have experienced. (I have not tried the 5.14a when a motor stopped......yet).

I just wish we had data logging.
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Old Sep 14, 2012, 09:41 AM
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Just a quick question. Did any of the crashes and specially the flips happen on 5.14a ?
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Old Sep 14, 2012, 10:12 AM
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Switzerland
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A data logger for this would be very interesting... not only for the S800, but for any multicopter.

What would be needed?
- small board with a PIC, or similar
- a micro SD-card slot for logging
- 8 PWM/PPM inputs passed directly through to 8 outputs (no electronics between to risk making the problem worse)
- 8 motor-speed sensors
- an accelerometer to record the shock of a crash, and the attitude of the copter.
- Battery voltage sensor?

For the motor speed sensors it would seem that it wiser to measure the physical speed of the motor than the ESC output pulses, to be able to detect mechanical issues.
Hall effect sensor? optical?

Comments? thoughts? Anything exist on the market already?

Strikes me that such a device would be useful in tuning autopilot gains also.
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Old Sep 14, 2012, 10:22 AM
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Romania, TM, Timisoara
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Originally Posted by AnthonyRC View Post
A data logger for this would be very interesting... not only for the S800, but for any multicopter.

What would be needed?
- small board with a PIC, or similar
- a micro SD-card slot for logging
- 8 PWM/PPM inputs passed directly through to 8 outputs (no electronics between to risk making the problem worse)
- 8 motor-speed sensors
- an accelerometer to record the shock of a crash, and the attitude of the copter.
- Battery voltage sensor?

For the motor speed sensors it would seem that it wiser to measure the physical speed of the motor than the ESC output pulses, to be able to detect mechanical issues.
Hall effect sensor? optical?

Comments? thoughts? Anything exist on the market already?

Strikes me that such a device would be useful in tuning autopilot gains also.
There is one BIG Problem with an external logger. You will never know what is going on inside the FC. Sure you can see one motor rev up or shutting down but you won't know why.
That is why you need a logger that is connected the the FC or part of it.
It is implemented on other copter FC's but alas not on the WKM...
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Old Sep 14, 2012, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Iceman575 View Post
There is one BIG Problem with an external logger. You will never know what is going on inside the FC. Sure you can see one motor rev up or shutting down but you won't know why.
That is why you need a logger that is connected the the FC or part of it.
It is implemented on other copter FC's but alas not on the WKM...
Not sure I completely agree... the problem with the s800 now is that there are several theories, but no concrete evidence. The beauty of an external logger, is that you can narrow down the problem.

For example, case 1: PPM input from FC goes nuts (or goes away), motor follows. Clearly a problem in the FC.
case 2: PPM input from PC is ok, but motor goes nuts. Clearly either the ESC, or the motor itself.

If you monitored the ESC outputs also, you could even break down case 2 into ESC, or motor problems (although the 'motor spins up' flips are clearly not a mechanical problem in the motor).
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Old Sep 14, 2012, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Iceman575 View Post
Fair enough. In that case the mystery (and misery) continues...
Yes it's depressing to think the S800 isn't reliable, I did think it was but having seen the latest pictures from NASA I am having my doubts
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Old Sep 14, 2012, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by AnthonyRC View Post
Not sure I completely agree... the problem with the s800 now is that there are several theories, but no concrete evidence. The beauty of an external logger, is that you can narrow down the problem.

For example, case 1: PPM input from FC goes nuts (or goes away), motor follows. Clearly a problem in the FC.
case 2: PPM input from PC is ok, but motor goes nuts. Clearly either the ESC, or the motor itself.

If you monitored the ESC outputs also, you could even break down case 2 into ESC, or motor problems (although the 'motor spins up' flips are clearly not a mechanical problem in the motor).
You do realize how many sensors you would need for what you just described. Also the amount of wires that would have to be put on the copter...
Not sure if anybody would want that. I for one would not. The whole point of the S800 it that you can take it apart. Adding so much wiring makes that virtually impossible...
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Old Sep 14, 2012, 10:53 AM
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Bay Area, CA
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@Flyingbiscuit1

Lol!
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Old Sep 14, 2012, 11:35 AM
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Switzerland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman575 View Post
You do realize how many sensors you would need for what you just described. Also the amount of wires that would have to be put on the copter...
Not sure if anybody would want that. I for one would not. The whole point of the S800 it that you can take it apart. Adding so much wiring makes that virtually impossible...
I realize exactly how many sensors, basically one per prop, so 6 for the s800, for physical speed measurement. These could easily be 2 or 3 pin cables, with a simple servo-connector style connection to the logger.

The PPM/PWM sensors would just be a pass-thru on the logger board, so nothing to disconnect when removing arms.

I am not proposing at all that this is something that one would want to install permanently on these copters, but while testing a new system, it might well provide some very interesting data in the event of an 'incident'.

I have a wookong-equipped F550 sat on the shelf that I am afraid to fly, after
multiple 'prop stopping' incidents. A logger like this would at least give me some diagnostic data which would help get this understood once and for all.
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Old Sep 14, 2012, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by c3d76 View Post
Makes sense with the timing, I doubt it was my gains.
BUT, in the (my) vid with the motors pulsing, that was only due to fw 5.14a... My s800 is smooth as butter on 5.12.
So maybe 5.12 is not "perfect" because it does not handle loss of 1 motor, and 5.14a is flawed because it messes the timing
Test flying tomorrow with no gimbal and going to play with the gains on 5.14a anyway. Will let you guys know if it solves the pulsing.

By the way I got the S800 with updated ESC's and updated Wookong bought in August...
Wish we could add signatures on RCgroups to post all our specs
Someone posted on my "pulsing video" that the problem is solved by changing the idle speed in the Wookong GUI from "recommended" to "High".
I will give that a try too and post back...
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