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Old Sep 25, 2012, 12:15 AM
Good for what ALES you
awilmunder's Avatar
United States, CA, Novato
Joined Jan 2009
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I hadn't even considered the over-the-fence vs. through-the-fence aspect of this decision. I think there are solid arguments on both sides. We measure to the tip of the nose of the plane for distance, but 'inside the fence' can easily be interpreted as the entire aircraft, not just the nose.

I would like to say it wasn't my plane, but.... I took the photo because I thought it was a great example of a challenging call.

I'm off to Cal Valley for three days of cross-country flying this weekend, ALES in Visalia the following Friday, and two days of TD flying on Saturday and Sunday. What a great time of year!
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Old Sep 25, 2012, 08:43 AM
Detail Freak
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Harbor City, CA
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Well, of course if the fence wasn't there the plane would be within the boundary. But, the fence is a known obstacle/marker, so, in my opinion, if the CD said you must be inside the fence line then the picture shows it didn't make it.
Likely the next time the CD will spell out that particular detail. To me though, the nose poking through doesn't cut it. The fence prevented the plane from making it.

I've got the cross-country thing on my bucket list of soaring. I need to check that out. There just always seems to be a contest to fly or a plane to build or repair!

Have a great weekend doing X-country, and I will see you at the Fall Fest.
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Old Sep 25, 2012, 10:52 AM
Red Merle ALES
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I bet the folks at San Quentin would they are still on the wrong side.

If it were a wall it wouldn't be a question, if the fence wasn't there you'd have made it in. In the end how much of a difference would it have made?

Just my .02 cents worth.

Curtis
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Old Sep 25, 2012, 11:25 AM
W0X0F
IBWALT's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awilmunder View Post
OK... How would you call this?

The contest rules as announced, all planes must land within the fenced area. In this case, the closer side of the fence was within the field boundaries.


At the CAMS-Polecat-Soaring Circuits 2K12 ALES Open Soar that flight would have been in bounds and would have received full flight points.
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Old Sep 25, 2012, 12:16 PM
Where is the lift?
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USA, AZ, Phoenix
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In our competitions (F3K) that's a no brainier as some part of the aircraft is in bounds so its considered in bounds but it would be a good question for the pilot's meeting as different disciplines have different ways if doing things.

Charlie
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Old Sep 26, 2012, 01:51 PM
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United States, CA, Hesperia
Joined Mar 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awilmunder View Post
It is always a difficult decision to zero a flight. We have a 3-minute countdown before launch which should be plenty of time for a quick motor check and even a fix if caught early. I have seen many pilots briefly throttle up their motor to make sure that they are ready to launch. Holding a launch is certainly an option, but reflights should be avoided since the goal of Man-on-Man is for everyone to fly in the same air, and I have seen plenty of circumstances where the flying conditions have completely changed from one flight group to the next.
This was probably an honest but unfortunate error on the part of the contestant. To rule other than the way you did however,would be a mistake on your part as some, not many, competetors would see your ruling as a way to get around one of the two main reasons for Man-On-Man...namely to force competitors to fly in specific groups. You cannot allow the competitors to choose who they will or will not fly against.
Rick
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Old Sep 26, 2012, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by GliderDriver45 View Post
I'm new to the CD role and had the following situation:
call to launch verify every one is ready.
Start the 10 sec launch window and one of the contestants motor will not start. All the other pilots are in the air, the 10 sec launch window expires then he discovers that his cam unit had become disconnected.
I gave him a zero for the round and did not permit a refilght.

Is this the correct desicion? or should he have been allowed to have a refilght?
If you give him a reflight do you call everyone else in to land and refly with the same flight group? Place him in the next flight group? or let him fly solo and compare his time to those in his orginal flight group?
This was probably an honest but unfortunate error on the part of the contestant. To rule other than the way you did however,would be a mistake on your part as some, not many, competetors would see your ruling as a way to get around one of the two main reasons for Man-On-Man...same air and namely to force competitors to fly in specific groups. You cannot allow the competitors to choose who they will or will not fly against.
Rick
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Old Sep 26, 2012, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by IBWALT View Post


At the CAMS-Polecat-Soaring Circuits 2K12 ALES Open Soar that flight would have been in bounds and would have received full flight points.
Would the fact that no part of the plane is on the ground on the in-bounds side of the fence come into play? No part of that plane is on the ground in-bounds.
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Old Sep 26, 2012, 02:20 PM
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Out of bounds

Quit playing at being lawyers!!! That model is out of bounds. Ken.
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Old Sep 26, 2012, 02:28 PM
Detail Freak
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Harbor City, CA
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Thats what I would say too....
It wasn't like the fence was added as an obstacle after launch; it was there, the plane didn't make it inside the boundary because of the fence.
Thats the way it goes....Someone that cleared the fence should score higher than that plane did not clear the fence.

R,
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Old Sep 26, 2012, 02:35 PM
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Hey, my plane is in a tree. If that tree had not been there I would have glided onto the field and been in-bounds.
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Old Sep 26, 2012, 02:47 PM
WINS - Winch In Nose Sailplane
jaizon's Avatar
USA, NH
Joined Mar 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeajr View Post
Hey, my plane is in a tree. If that tree had not been there I would have glided onto the field and been in-bounds.
WOW! Sucks to be you.
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Old Sep 26, 2012, 03:26 PM
Detail Freak
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Originally Posted by aeajr View Post
Hey, my plane is in a tree. If that tree had not been there I would have glided onto the field and been in-bounds.
Exactly....
If the tree is out of bounds, so is your glider.

R,
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Old Sep 26, 2012, 03:55 PM
W0X0F
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeajr View Post
Would the fact that no part of the plane is on the ground on the in-bounds side of the fence come into play? No part of that plane is on the ground in-bounds.
NO. The field boundary on the South side of the Carlisle AeroModlers field, where the Polecat is held, is a good example. The grass that marks the out of bounds line is cut higher than the grass on the field. I have seen this difference range from a few inches to a foot or more. Your plane could be resting on the taller grass that is out of bounds with the nose sticking out over the shorter grass that is in bounds and this would be counted as an in bounds landing. Any part of the plane in bounds scores flight points.
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Old Sep 26, 2012, 04:04 PM
Detail Freak
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Harbor City, CA
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Aric-

What call did the CD make in this instance??
Just curious.
Clearly there are arguments for a call to be made either way....
Regardless, I'll bet the CD in the future calls that out BEFORE the contest next time.

R,
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