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Old Jan 26, 2013, 06:05 AM
* fly fast - live slow *
Seebodener's Avatar
Seeboden in Austria
Joined Dec 2008
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Originally Posted by GordonTarling View Post
Thanks, but not sure what you mean - change transmitter throw settings to give +120 and -120 on roll and pitch channels?

I was trying to get my camera gimbal to work this afternoon, but the servos only move to one end and stay there - changing settings in the KK2 didn't seem to make any difference. I've obviously got hold of the wrong end of the stick somewhere!
Gordon,

I had the same problems and I needed some time to figure out how to solve them.

I will describe how and what I did and at the end I will post some pics just in case my explanation aren´t that clear cause english is not my native language.

First I will say that the new Steveis SW is INCREDIBLE ...
I am only missing the possibility to swap from NORMAL to SL during flight via a switch
and YES: you can change the Roll-/Pitch-Offset during flight and it will level this new position


Pic. #1
Befor I flashed to Steveis SW I fitted the CamStabSetup to the needs of my gimbal.

Than I flashed KK2 with Ver 1.5_new.

Pic. #2:
As I use CPPM I only have one cable input to KK2.

Pic. #3:
On the right you can see:
M1 ... to M4 are set according your needs for Ail, Thro, Elev. Rud
M5 ... a SportsBEC is connected to provide power for the Servos
M6 ... not connected
M7 ... Roll-Servo
M8 ... Pitch-Servo

Pic. #4:
In my Tx I assigned Channel/Servo 5 + 6 each to a Knob/Poti to make the servos move. EndPoints + servo travel are set to maximum.

I hope I can do some video soon.

I hope my explanations are understandable ... hope they help

BR Jörg
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 06:11 AM
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Romania, Europe
Joined Aug 2009
275 Posts
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Originally Posted by WendoNZ View Post
The only reason you would need a second board, would be if you were flying an octo and had used all the outputs driving the motors
Hi again, so if I use just 4 outputs because I build a quad, I could use aonther 2 putputs for camera gimbal, so the board steers the quad and the gimbal IN THE SAME TIME ? If so, GREAT.......
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 07:06 AM
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United States, MI, Morrice
Joined Jan 2013
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Originally Posted by serjuro View Post
Hi again, so if I use just 4 outputs because I build a quad, I could use aonther 2 putputs for camera gimbal, so the board steers the quad and the gimbal IN THE SAME TIME ? If so, GREAT.......
Yes, you just need to flash 1.5 and have power to one of the M2 to M6 connections.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 07:13 AM
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UK, Greater London, Uxbridge
Joined Mar 2001
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Jorg - thanks for taking the time to explain that - helps a lot. If you're using the Steveis firmware, it seems to only support a quad - I'm flying a hexa, so I don't think it will work.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 07:18 AM
Team WarpSquad
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
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Originally Posted by Akcopter View Post
My Yaw P Settings are 90 ,P limit is 100 , I is 0,
You need to increase I to at least 20 I'd guess - mine is 30-35?... I'd have to check.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akcopter View Post
All the props have come from the same pack of props as it is...
So they all rotate the same direction? They are all 100% identical? Not a problem on a TRI but on a Quad it'll just spin one way... uncontrollably I'd hazzard.

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Originally Posted by Akcopter View Post
what is the tracking on my props????...
Making sure the two (or three) prop tips all rotate on the same plane, i.e. one tip isn't higher or lower than any of the others as it rotates past a certain point - look at tracking for helicopters - basically the same thing but will depend on if the prop is well seated on the motor/prop adapter shaft. Bad tracking can increase vibration.

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Originally Posted by Akcopter View Post
I have somewhat solved the problem of the inadvertent yaw by using trims ,But now I have a problem with the quad gaining height when I apply yaw control using my sticks...when I yaw to the right the quad gains height but when I try to yaw keft It does not ...all it does is nicely yaw to the left...what I see here is the natural tendency of the craft to yaw to the left....I tried to decrease the stick sensitivity on the yaw axis and this again solved this problem somehow, but then yawing to the right became very difficult.... I thought some pro users here could help me with this problem by suggesting some changes in the mixer editor offset settings....(I used the offset settings to offset the tail servo on my tri-copter to provide better yaw compensation)...but here the situation is different as on a tricopter only the servo is used to control yaw so changing the offset there would help me with the yaw axis ...but on a quad two motors are used at a time to yaw...so I will have to change the offset setting on both of them..So I am experimenting and stumbling....
I'd think you'll need to reset the offsets to zero once you get the I value in range.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Akcopter View Post
I flashed my esc's with the latest simonk release(2012 -09-10)....and then tried to see the difference by flashing the wii-esc firmware...I am yet to derive any conclusions from these tests...so i will most probably post a video illustrating my problems..........
Video is always good and Simonk also.

Keep going - and add that 'I' as theothercliff suggests.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Akcopter View Post
Thanks
I will try that cliff...
And It works Awesome .....Thank you cliff ...It makes me realize now how someone who thinks he is good at tuning PID's may have to start all over again...at a beginner's level and learn to do it all over again.....thank you... It was the I term indeed which helped me stabilize the yaw......and now I can summarize what was happening ...increasing the yaw P gain caused the motors which were supposed to compensate the yaw to the left to speed up very fast causing the copter to gain height this was because the other two motors did not slow down enough to let the yaw torque take effect due to high Pand I gains on the roll and pitch axes which were stopping the copter from pitching or banking......so I decreased the yaw P gain and increased the Yaw I gain gradually...then I saw my problem was getting solved as I slowly moved the I gain up and then found the sweet spot...because of the I gain the error was getting accumulated over time as my copter was yawing to the left and then the accumulated error helped the copter provide adequate compensation...So I am happy now that others can learn from what I went through......(Gosh !! Tuning PID's can really be frustrating ......)
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 07:35 AM
Stop me before I build again!
United States, NY, Albany
Joined Sep 2012
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Originally Posted by GordonTarling View Post
Jorg - thanks for taking the time to explain that - helps a lot. If you're using the Steveis firmware, it seems to only support a quad - I'm flying a hexa, so I don't think it will work.
I'll have to look, but I think you are correct, if you want Tx gimbal offset controll you need another input and it comes at the expense of 1 more motor pin and there are only 8 ( 6 + 3 = 9 ). The stock 1.5 does work with hex + gimbal.

That said I am working on a CPPM only firmware that will integrate gimbal control and support octo + gimbal since we can reclaim the inputs for motors. It's just taking time since I want to better understand the underlying code before mucking with PWM generation.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 07:44 AM
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thwaitm::::---
You need to increase I to at least 20 I'd guess - mine is 30-35?... I'd have to check.

I DID THIS AND YES THE I TERM WAS THE SOLUTION.....


So they all rotate the same direction? They are all 100% identical? Not a problem on a TRI but on a Quad it'll just spin one way... uncontrollably I'd hazzard.

YUP I CHECKED MOTOR AND PROP SPIN DIRECTIONS AND EVERYTHING WAS PERFECT.....

Making sure the two (or three) prop tips all rotate on the same plane, i.e. one tip isn't higher or lower than any of the others as it rotates past a certain point - look at tracking for helicopters - basically the same thing but will depend on if the prop is well seated on the motor/prop adapter shaft. Bad tracking can increase vibration.

TRACKING IS SOMETHING NEW I HAVE LEARNT .... SO I CHECKED AND THE PROPS SIT FINE ON THE MOTORS ..VIBRATIONS ARE MINIMAL ALMOST ZERO... I USE LASER BALANCING... SO VIBRATIONS-NO ISSUE

I'd think you'll need to reset the offsets to zero once you get the I value in range.

YUP I DID THAT AND IT WORKS GREAT


Video is always good and Simonk also.

I USED THE SIMONK AND THE WII-ESC BOTH OF THEM AND I FOUND THAT BOTH OF THEM DO THE JOB EXTREMELY WELL...MY SETUP IS DT750 MOTORS WITH 10X4.7 PROPS AND F-30 ESC'S...I FOUND THE WII-ESC'S A BIT MORE QUITE AND SMOOTH ..THE WAY MY MOTORS SOUND ON WII-ESC'S IS BETER THAN THE SIMONK (2010-09-10) RELEASE.. SO I AM GONNA STICK WITH THOSE BUT YOU CAN GO WITH ANY OF THEM ..AND IT WILL BE GREAT....

Keep going - and add that 'I' as theothercliff suggests.
THANK YOU SO MUCH EVERYONE FOR ADDRESSING MY PROBLEM..I THOUGHT I HAD A GENUINE PROBLEM HERE BUT THEN I TURNED OUT TO BE NOTHING BUT GOOD OLD PI TUNING...
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 08:12 AM
* fly fast - live slow *
Seebodener's Avatar
Seeboden in Austria
Joined Dec 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonTarling View Post
Jorg - thanks for taking the time to explain that - helps a lot. If you're using the Steveis firmware, it seems to only support a quad - I'm flying a hexa, so I don't think it will work.
correct, so far the new Steveis SW for Gimbal Control only works with Quads

Quote:
Originally Posted by brontide View Post
I'll have to look, but I think you are correct, if you want Tx gimbal offset controll you need another input and it comes at the expense of 1 more motor pin and there are only 8 ( 6 + 3 = 9 ). The stock 1.5 does work with hex + gimbal.

That said I am working on a CPPM only firmware that will integrate gimbal control and support octo + gimbal since we can reclaim the inputs for motors. It's just taking time since I want to better understand the underlying code before mucking with PWM generation.
that would be a great way to solve the actual limited field of application ...

and maybe it could be possible to integrate the possibility to change flight-modes (Normal + SL) via a switch as it is possible with orig. Ver 1.5

Jörg
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:11 AM
Stop me before I build again!
United States, NY, Albany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seebodener View Post
and maybe it could be possible to integrate the possibility to change flight-modes (Normal + SL) via a switch as it is possible with orig. Ver 1.5

Jörg
Yes, the SL on AUX would be unaffected in the CPPM firmware since all channels would be there and usable.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 01:22 PM
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Joined Dec 2012
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piezo output

Are there any details on the piezo output? Is it just 5v logic, or is it a square wave for directly driving a piezo element? My KK2 came from Hobbyking without a piezo, and I'd like to hook something up for low voltage alarm.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 02:09 PM
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Roosendaal, Netherlands
Joined Dec 2004
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Ive been trying to figure this out using the videos but I just cant get it right..
I just cant seem to see the difference between having P too high and having I too high.
Maybe its because of the size of this copter though..



What are good starter PI values for a small tricopter like this one?
I get P values around 15 where it barely becomes flyable, but that just seems too low.
I think I need to do something with I gains to get the wiggle out?
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 02:29 PM
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Canada, QC
Joined Apr 2010
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Anyone know if its possible to have the camera gimbal controlled by radio and also being stabilized by the board?
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 02:47 PM
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Joined Aug 2012
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Originally Posted by metalfred View Post
Anyone know if its possible to have the camera gimbal controlled by radio and also being stabilized by the board?
If you got a quad then you can use this firmware: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...51&postcount=1
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 03:10 PM
Specializing in RC since 1972
Temple, GA, USA
Joined Jun 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VENOMOUSDUCKY View Post
I did calibrate the ESC's with no noticable difference, but after I went to bed I realized that the power wires on the M2 to M4 ESC's were not connected. Does this matter? If not, my next step is to increase the I gain.
Stock settings were used after the 1.5 flash. I did try to increase the I gain on 1.2 but no luck there either.
For a multicopter with no servos, you don't need power on M2-M8. It is OK to disconnect the power wires on the ESC servo connectors. I would not disconnect the ground wires or the signal wires though. You will get a ground via M2 ESC -> battery -> M1 ESC -> KK2, but you can get a voltage differential across the cabling between ESC's and the battery. There isn't really a perfect way to do this given 4 separate ESC's.

I gain (and perhaps I limit) on yaw in particular.
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