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Old Jul 16, 2012, 01:34 AM
T.ing to put on air 100 models
chiloschista's Avatar
Switzerland
Joined Feb 2008
639 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erknie View Post
Did you actually read any of the papers you linked?

The first one is for fixed wing aircraft and uses a GPS, the second one is about tilt dynamics and rotation rates. We are talking about the autolevel of the KK2 board using an accelerometer.
Did you read them ?

The first one is to show that you can know the exact attitude of any object in the space (plane, quad, ...), more related to gyro drift. If you read the comments you can notice that Andrew Tridgell is implementing it in Arducopter code also.

The second one is exactly what you said :
Quote:
From the form of the tilt dynamic model it is possible to determine the form of an optimal feedback controller. It is not a PID controller.
End Quote.

But more than a reader I am testing all the firmwares which are released.

First example of very first quad firmware
Second example of more advanced firmware, with higher ESC PWM rate (400Hz). I did some test trying to disturb it and show how it autolevels.

Summarizing it seems being possible to have a great autoleveling quad, without paying $$$ (board is $99.95 anyway, code is open source).
It is a matter of hardware, software and tuning, the so called system.
But I stop this discussion here. I don't want to hijack this thread and I apologize with KK.

As last note I find KK2 a great board, especially for that price. I agree with thefokker, the pilot should have the controls. That's like ABS on cars : it helps manage better braking, it can't improve braking capabilities.

Ric

P.s.: thefokker, I loved your flying
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 04:02 AM
bobepine's Avatar
Joined Jun 2011
7,273 Posts
OK, here's a short video where I show my settings on the LCD screen and then I follow up with a short flight demo in auto level mode.

As you will see, there is no erratic behavior, no wobbling, nothing with AL turned ON Just the same as when auto level is turned OFF, except, as noted in the video, the controls feel more sluggish.

KK2 Board Auto Level and LCD settings Screen Shots (4 min 0 sec)



It is my humble opinion that if peeps have wobbling issues and other unwanted characteristics, it will be due to incorrect setup. Things like inappropriate numbers in PI editors or in Auto Level menu, imbalanced props, bent motor shafts, ESC calibration, poor frame quality, wrong motors for the quad's size or given application, wrong Radio programming, etc, can all cause wobbling and poor flight characteristics.

There may be some faulty KK2 boards out there, but the above are far more likely culprits in causing issues. Plus, I think the fact that the KK board's Auto Level doesn't level very fast is simply inherent to its design, and it has no bearing on issues such as erratic flight or wobbling.

Just thinking out loud, here. Could I be wrong. Most definitely. Would not be the first time as I have demonstrated quite conclusively in this thread, already.

Best,
Chris

Just noticed that my iPhone accelerometer ended up shooting the above video sideways. GRRR! I hate shooting with the iPhone. I'm NOT redoing this video. Sorry.
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 04:32 AM
Paulo72
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Portugal, Lisboa, Odivelas
Joined Nov 2011
15 Posts
HI

Im maiking a tricopter like the rcexplorer, is there any problem having the battery on the top, or is it better having it on the buttom?

Thakns
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 04:33 AM
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davereap's Avatar
Ashford. Kent. England
Joined Feb 2005
6,757 Posts
to thefokker.... superb flying video.. wow!
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 05:29 AM
Hulk likes flying things
Phalanx-0's Avatar
United States, IN, Kokomo
Joined May 2008
613 Posts
I have flown my tri both ways. It seems to matter very little, if any.
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 05:36 AM
T.ing to put on air 100 models
chiloschista's Avatar
Switzerland
Joined Feb 2008
639 Posts
SuperBrain vs RapidESC

Hi,

yes, I'm saying nothing new, but I swapped SuperBrain ESCs with Timecop RapidESC flashed with SimonK firmware.
Amazing, all the little wobbling disappeared. It makes a huge difference !
I guess I could increase gains now, but I like the way it is now and I should try some more dynamic flight.

Unfortunately I discovered too late that SuperBrain are so slow and definitely not a good choice for quads. Still a lot to learn ...

Ric
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 06:15 AM
Fly, crash, rebuild.
United States, NY, Shelter Island
Joined May 2011
872 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo72 View Post
HI

Im maiking a tricopter like the rcexplorer, is there any problem having the battery on the top, or is it better having it on the buttom?

Thakns
Most important choice is getting the center of gravity right. The battery on the bottom helps add mass to the camera mount and mass is harder to vibrate. That is why David hangs the battery on the bottom of the tri. Also, the lower the CG the more stable your tri will be. Weight well blow the props helps stabilize the platform. If your battery is on top of the frame you will have a quick rotating bird, good for flips.
H
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 06:57 AM
Quad Whisperer
Joined Jul 2008
942 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by epyonxero View Post
Have you tested the fixed wing mode yet? I havent seen anyone who was able to get that working.
Yep, tested and it works
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 07:05 AM
Quad Whisperer
Joined Jul 2008
942 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by edje View Post
Thanks Barry.
I removed everything and connected 1 ESC to motor 1 connection. I checked ESC.. 5V was OK. Nothing happened unfortunately.
I've attached a photo of the damage I've done with the Al screw. Could this have caused my problem? Are there any specific points/components I could check?
Thanks.
That damage is on the ground plane and should be no problem.
Does the back light turn on?
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 07:21 AM
Quad Whisperer
Joined Jul 2008
942 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacitapproval View Post
Any chance of finding out more information on tracking down a replacement lcd? I cracked mine on a failed flip. The board still works, but now I can't change any settings. I took out the lcd, but I don't see any markings to help identify it.
"JHD12864", 20 pin, 0.5mm pitch connector.
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 07:23 AM
Registered User
Austin, TX
Joined Jan 2009
732 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapteinkuk View Post
Yep, tested and it works
any hints as to why everyone else can't seem to get it working?....aside from the fact that the power to M2-M8 outputs (which are now the servo outputs) has to be supplied externally, either by separate BEC or by jumpering to M1 outputs power pin, which is common with the power rail to the RC inputs?

are there any special instructions for setting servo range or centering that are different for the airplane mode?

thanks
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 07:30 AM
Quad Whisperer
Joined Jul 2008
942 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by epyonxero View Post
I went and tried that on the KK2 I have mounted on a wing and while now the servos are active, all they do it twitch and the throttle twitches as well. Randomly speeding up and slowing down.
The reason for having the FC supplied by output#1 or RX is to isolate the FC from the electrical noise generated by the servos. This noise may disrupt the FC.

For airplane use, connect the ESC to output#1 (throttle channel is passed to output#1) or directly to the RX, and use a BEC connected to any of output#2 to 8 to supply the servos.
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Last edited by kapteinkuk; Jul 16, 2012 at 08:11 AM.
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 07:35 AM
Quad Whisperer
Joined Jul 2008
942 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelterock View Post
I find it hard to believe the analog servo won't work. These analog servos are sold by the millions and deliver consistent. I have 2 different 25g digital servos coming. We'll see but several different people with totally different setups, experiencing the same new problem with properly functioning servos smell funny to me.

Rolf, any thoughts on this?
H
I will add a configurable low pass filter for the servo outputs, to avoid excessive shaking and premature servo failure when using low-end servos.
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 07:40 AM
Quad Whisperer
Joined Jul 2008
942 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atx_Heli View Post
any hints as to why everyone else can't seem to get it working?....aside from the fact that the power to M2-M8 outputs (which are now the servo outputs) has to be supplied externally, either by separate BEC or by jumpering to M1 outputs power pin, which is common with the power rail to the RC inputs?

are there any special instructions for setting servo range or centering that are different for the airplane mode?

thanks
I will write instructions on the airplane mode.
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 08:04 AM
Time to learn to fly
Sandav's Avatar
The Netherlands, OV, Zwolle
Joined Feb 2012
211 Posts
Just a short question, is there a setting that makes the props spin as soon as the board is armed?
I was used to this with my aq50d and multiwii board. Now with the KK2.0 I almost removed my fingers with an unexpected throttle movement thinking the power was of.
I read the entire thread (not at once though ) but can't remember reading it anywhere.
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