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Old Dec 10, 2012, 06:57 AM
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Romania, Europe
Joined Aug 2009
278 Posts
Hi guys, I need some help :
1. A friend of mine broke his LCD display by hitting his tri on a concrete house wall........LOL, where may he find to buy such LCD module?
2. Is the KK2 board working with old KK board GUI?
Thanks in advance.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 07:02 AM
Stop me before I build again!
United States, NY, Albany
Joined Sep 2012
1,320 Posts
1) No one has found a source of LCD parts. You should search this thread for the NOLCD firmware. You can then change the settings via the programmer and your computer.

2) ??
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 08:47 AM
Specializing in RC since 1972
Temple, GA, USA
Joined Jun 2009
3,135 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbansniper View Post
I broke two quad arms with the below settings, can you help me adjust?

The settings worked fine in my drive way...but when i went out to a field; i beleive all it took was a strong gust of wind to send my Quad into an increasingly violent oscillation. i could be flying fine for a minute and then all the sudden it starts with a slow rock/oscillation...and then rocks further and further out of control.

self level
P gain : 30
P limi : 50

Misc
Height dampening : 10
height Dampening limit : 20

P&I
Elevation/Aileron
P gain : 30
P Limit : 100
I Gain : 20
I Limit : 20
Rudder
P gain : 20
P limit : 20
I gain : 20
I limit : 10

KK2 firmware 1.5
DJI 450 frame
750 kv motors, 40A turnigy plush ESC's
Oscillations are caused by gains being too high for the ESC response time.

Tuning the gains in a multi-copter is finding the highest gain that does not oscillate. Too high a gain and it oscillates. Too low and it is mushy, like driving a bus through a slalum instead of a sports car.

Wind is the same as fast forward flight, so you can test it that way. Better yet, just bump the stick during a hover and see if there is ringing (decreasing oscillation that goes away). Start by doing this with your current settings, so you know whether the changes you make do it better or worse.

Is this a fast oscillation or a slower one? For a fast oscillation, you adjust P. For a slow oscillation you adjust I. Standard procedure is to set I gain to zero and adjust P gain up to oscillation (fast oscillation) then back it down, then adjust I gain up to oscillation (slow oscillation) then back it down.

Your particular problem may be helped by reducing your Elevator/Alieron P Limit from 100 down to 30 or 40. In this case, the oscillation will still be there, but it will not grow so big. Better to retune from the beginning.

If you have a mixed bag of ESC's, you should consider flashing them to make them closer to the same.

Even if the ESC's are all the same type, flashing them (or setting the KK2 setting to "fast update rate" if it works with your ESC's) is the best place to start. It changes you from flying an untuned bus to flying an untuned sports car.

If you have unflashed ESC's, they should all be set for "fastest startup" and brake off using their ESC beeping menu.

There are several ways to fix gain too high for ESC:
- reduce the gains
- reduce the limits
- change the update rate in the KK2 to "fast" if the ESC's can handle it.
- make the ESC respond faster (flash SimonK into all ESC's)

All multicopters tune differently. Unless you have the same frame, ESC's, motors and props, you cannot just blindly copy someone's settings. They may or may not work (fly mushy or oscillate), but they won't be optimum.

Search for "KK2 tuning" on youtube and watch a few.

This one does not detail, but explains the basics and shows videos of fast and slow oscillations. The first part "receiver test" is not important for you. He is flying a hex, and probably using flashed ESC's, so his gains are a LOT higher than you will be able to use.
Hobbyking's KK2: QUICK START TUNING GUIDE (4 min 9 sec)
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 08:47 AM
Registered User
United States, TX, Richmond
Joined Aug 2010
1,281 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by serjuro View Post
Hi guys, I need some help :
1. A friend of mine broke his LCD display by hitting his tri on a concrete house wall........LOL, where may he find to buy such LCD module?
2. Is the KK2 board working with old KK board GUI?
Thanks in advance.
There is no old KK board GUI. The original KK board was setup via POTS on the KK board itself. The only software involved was the firmware flashed to the board.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 08:52 AM
Registered User
United States, TX, Richmond
Joined Aug 2010
1,281 Posts
[QUOTE=Sudsy;23486095]
Quote:
Originally Posted by harrym View Post
I once had the opportunity to "track" a Navy SH-3 using the flag and crayon method. We marked the blade tips with different color crayons and with the rotor turning 100% and the pilot holding slightly up collective I had to get the flag into position so each blade hit the flag as it passed by. I only did this once. That was enough for me. Sudsy
I hope you were using a really long flag pole Watch those fingers!!
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 09:14 AM
Registered User
United States, TX, Richmond
Joined Aug 2010
1,281 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbansniper View Post
I broke two quad arms with the below settings, can you help me adjust?

The settings worked fine in my drive way...but when i went out to a field; i beleive all it took was a strong gust of wind to send my Quad into an increasingly violent oscillation. i could be flying fine for a minute and then all the sudden it starts with a slow rock/oscillation...and then rocks further and further out of control.

self level
P gain : 30
P limi : 50

Misc
Height dampening : 10
height Dampening limit : 20

P&I
Elevation/Aileron
P gain : 30
P Limit : 100
I Gain : 20
I Limit : 20
Rudder
P gain : 20
P limit : 20
I gain : 20
I limit : 10

KK2 firmware 1.5
DJI 450 frame
750 kv motors, 40A turnigy plush ESC's
I saw the picture of your quad. Do you still have that tail boom on it to assist with orientation? If so, that will cause issues with your quad as it will act like a rudder in the wind. What works really great for me is to use small orange balls (foam or plastic) or some pieces of pool noodle held in place with a carbon fiber rod going across the two front arms.

A couple of things to check:

Check the quad arms to ensure that the motors are sitting flat and level and not tilted to one side. If the arms have flexed, then that can cause the motors to be tiltted and you will have yaw issues.

Balance your props and hubs.

Verify your ESC connections and if they are flashable, flash them with the SimonK firmware. If not flashable,change their settings to be optimized for quads.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 09:34 AM
Specializing in RC since 1972
Temple, GA, USA
Joined Jun 2009
3,135 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by helizrnew2me View Post
heres the video ,little jumpy to start off ,its just my little handheld cam and some bad lighting .
this is the latest version of the flash tool and i am flashing from the repository.
you can see it reads and writes just fine and i even get a beep from the board when its done .but the screen remains blank still .
i have given up on this board ,just made the video for all to see how this can wrong .
choose 720p for best viewing
http://youtu.be/1_l9lz4oNhY
Grasping at straws. Could this be a broken LCD? Have you tried to configure it with the No-LCD software to see if it is actually working?

Do you have another KK2 board? Is that the normal set of ESC beeps for a normal disarmed startup? Is there a simple set of presses you could make that would have a response? Like arming changes the LED. I think that the ESC's are saying "I got no signal" with those continuous beeps.

Have you tried that "fix fuses and reflash" reflashing that is available in the latest LasyZero test build (not the release build)? Reset to factory defaults too.

What was it that caused this again? Just a flashing of an otherwise working KK2 board? That would be scary.
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Last edited by theothercliff; Dec 10, 2012 at 09:40 AM.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 10:00 AM
Registered User
United States, FL, Palm Beach
Joined Jan 2011
1,133 Posts
I pulled off my frame-mounted KK2.0 and built a sort of foam bridge so I could mount the battery to the top plate of my F450 frame. It didn't totally solve my stable mode drift, but it did remove the right-drift. So now I just give the TX 3 clicks of elevator to fly in stable mode, or neutral to fly manual mode. That works well enough for me.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 10:03 AM
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Joined Apr 2012
65 Posts
KK2 with 1.4 firmware

Super stable. Great firmware Captain.

F330 frame with KK 2.0 (1 min 48 sec)
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 10:43 AM
Registered User
United States, TX, Houston
Joined Nov 2012
279 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by harrym View Post
Here's what I used, Wind Speed: N9/G17 mph. No oscillations on my 392 Quad.
Self Level Settings - P Gain: 75 P Limit: 20 ACC Trim Roll: 0 ACC Trim Pitch: 0
Misc. Settings - Min Throttle: 10 Height Dimen: 10 Height D. Limit: 30 Alarm 1/10 Volts: 100 Servo Filter:50
Axis: Roll (Aileron) 45 100 25 20
Axis: Pitch (Elevator) 45 100 25 20
Axis: Yaw (Rudder) 45 20 30 10
KK2.0 v1.5
thanks for sharing your settings harrym. i see you have your self level P limit (20) set to less than half of what i am using (50). thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by brontide View Post
Doesn't sound like settings, what's your battery situation?
hello; i have three 2200 25C 3S nanotech's that are about 4 months old.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theothercliff View Post
Oscillations are caused by gains being too high for the ESC response time.

Tuning the gains in a multi-copter is finding the highest gain that does not oscillate. Too high a gain and it oscillates. Too low and it is mushy, like driving a bus through a slalum instead of a sports car.

Wind is the same as fast forward flight, so you can test it that way. Better yet, just bump the stick during a hover and see if there is ringing (decreasing oscillation that goes away). Start by doing this with your current settings, so you know whether the changes you make do it better or worse.

Is this a fast oscillation or a slower one? For a fast oscillation, you adjust P. For a slow oscillation you adjust I. Standard procedure is to set I gain to zero and adjust P gain up to oscillation (fast oscillation) then back it down, then adjust I gain up to oscillation (slow oscillation) then back it down.

Your particular problem may be helped by reducing your Elevator/Alieron P Limit from 100 down to 30 or 40. In this case, the oscillation will still be there, but it will not grow so big. Better to retune from the beginning.

If you have a mixed bag of ESC's, you should consider flashing them to make them closer to the same.

Even if the ESC's are all the same type, flashing them (or setting the KK2 setting to "fast update rate" if it works with your ESC's) is the best place to start. It changes you from flying an untuned bus to flying an untuned sports car.

If you have unflashed ESC's, they should all be set for "fastest startup" and brake off using their ESC beeping menu.

There are several ways to fix gain too high for ESC:
- reduce the gains
- reduce the limits
- change the update rate in the KK2 to "fast" if the ESC's can handle it.
- make the ESC respond faster (flash SimonK into all ESC's)

All multicopters tune differently. Unless you have the same frame, ESC's, motors and props, you cannot just blindly copy someone's settings. They may or may not work (fly mushy or oscillate), but they won't be optimum.

Search for "KK2 tuning" on youtube and watch a few.

This one does not detail, but explains the basics and shows videos of fast and slow oscillations. The first part "receiver test" is not important for you. He is flying a hex, and probably using flashed ESC's, so his gains are a LOT higher than you will be able to use.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7pWroCxL38
theothercliff, thanks for the detailed explanantion/information!!! i am in the process of starting over with lower P&I values and will take your advice on lowering the limits as well. will use the forward flight test as well as bumping the stick test. will also have to research ESC flashing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcjose View Post
I saw the picture of your quad. Do you still have that tail boom on it to assist with orientation? If so, that will cause issues with your quad as it will act like a rudder in the wind. What works really great for me is to use small orange balls (foam or plastic) or some pieces of pool noodle held in place with a carbon fiber rod going across the two front arms.

A couple of things to check:

Check the quad arms to ensure that the motors are sitting flat and level and not tilted to one side. If the arms have flexed, then that can cause the motors to be tiltted and you will have yaw issues.

Balance your props and hubs.

Verify your ESC connections and if they are flashable, flash them with the SimonK firmware. If not flashable,change their settings to be optimized for quads.
rcjose, thanks for your pre-flight checks. i would have been suspicious of my tail boom causing the crash...but my first crash occured without the tail boom. i really believe it's due to the fact that i have the quad tuned for low or no wind...and the settings are too aggresive for windy conditions.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 12:39 PM
Stop me before I build again!
United States, NY, Albany
Joined Sep 2012
1,320 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbansniper View Post
hello; i have three 2200 25C 3S nanotech's that are about 4 months old.
2.2aH * 25C = 55 Amps theoretical continuous ... I think you may be stressing your battery. Do you monitor voltage or just run on a timer?
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 12:44 PM
Plane and multirotor's - FPV
DrEvil's Avatar
Moss, Norway
Joined Jun 2007
854 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcjose View Post
There is no old KK board GUI. The original KK board was setup via POTS on the KK board itself. The only software involved was the firmware flashed to the board.
Wrong !!

Check out HappySunday's profile !!
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 12:58 PM
Registered User
United States, TX, Houston
Joined Nov 2012
279 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by brontide View Post
2.2aH * 25C = 55 Amps theoretical continuous ... I think you may be stressing your battery. Do you monitor voltage or just run on a timer?
hello; i am running on a timer. the motors have a max draw of 20 amps.
the lipo's get just a little warm after a flight...but i'm not flying aggresively at all.

my goal is to set this quad up for FPV. i have a fat shark predator V2 kit just sitting there waiting for me to stabalize this craft.
i have thought about running two of the 2200 25C in parallel.

I do have some 2650 35C 3S and some 2200 45C 4S nanotech's.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 01:16 PM
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United States, TX, Richmond
Joined Aug 2010
1,281 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrEvil View Post
Wrong !!

Check out HappySunday's profile !!
I am well aware of the OpenAero code for the KK boards and it's for airplanes not multirotors, so I am not wrong.

The original KK board was not designed for airplanes but multirotors and was not usable for airplanes until OpenAero came out.

The new KK2 board was not designed for airplanes but multirotors and was not usable for airplanes until OpenAero came out.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 01:19 PM
Stop me before I build again!
United States, NY, Albany
Joined Sep 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbansniper View Post
hello; i am running on a timer. the motors have a max draw of 20 amps.
the lipo's get just a little warm after a flight...but i'm not flying aggresively at all.

my goal is to set this quad up for FPV. i have a fat shark predator V2 kit just sitting there waiting for me to stabalize this craft.
i have thought about running two of the 2200 25C in parallel.

I do have some 2650 35C 3S and some 2200 45C 4S nanotech's.
Just because they are not getting warm does not mean that you are not witnessing a voltage sag. I would retest with the 35C or make that parallel rig for 2x 3s 25C 2200. A standalone battery monitor might be good as well.
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