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Old Jul 05, 2012, 11:41 AM
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Good video - confirms that it's a PI tuning issue.

I'll tether up mine tonight and do some more testing and see what I can make happen.
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 12:39 PM
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United States, AZ, Scottsdale
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Originally Posted by HappySundays View Post
There was a video posted to RCGroups by a reviewer showing just how well the KK2.0 returned to level when autolevel was switched on. I'll post a link if I find it again.
If yours doesn't return to level did you calibrate the accelerometers level?
If you tilt it at 45 degrees and engage autolevel does it not immediately try to correct that? If you see the video of the tethered behavious you'd see what I mean.
I'll go and look for it....

Update: Here it is... lots of snapping to autolevel...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZPcww9MRRY
lol, I thought that video was being played back in slow motion...

I have been using multiwii for a while and I must say that the "auto-level" of the kk2 is not the "auto-level" that can be achieved using multwii or any other accelerometer supported software. With the correct gains I found it to be quicker, but the position locks and won't react to any control inputs. For $18 it was well worth the price, and I even bought 2, but this board's hardware is more than capable of better flight performance and autoleveling. Hopefully, we will see improvements with future updates. I looked into porting multiwii, but without exposed UART ports there isn't an easy way to use multiwii and I have no intention of developing a new LCD interface for operation of multiwii to be directly compatible with the kk2.
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 02:58 PM
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Ok 2 more packs through this board and some more observations;

Conditions - dead calm - not a breath of wind.

Lets get autolevel out of the way - I'll reiterate my earlier comment, it feels like adding lots of expo and stops you being able to pilot the quad to aggressively - no flips etc. It still doesn't pull the copter completely level.

I also noticed if you have Level on and then climb rapidly from a stable hover the quad veers off in one direction.

Acro mode - lots of fun - slightly terrifying in the flips but then I'm not that great at them on other hardware either.

I'm not a great PI(D) tuner at the best of times but I am getting some small oscillations after snappy stick input; any ideas about tuning those out? Once sticks are released it holds angles very well.

No noticeable wobble in rapid decents (Acro or Level).

All in all a very nice little board but I do hope Stable mode is improved.
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Katch View Post
Ok 2 more packs through this board and some more observations;

Conditions - dead calm - not a breath of wind.

Lets get autolevel out of the way - I'll reiterate my earlier comment, it feels like adding lots of expo and stops you being able to pilot the quad to aggressively - no flips etc. It still doesn't pull the copter completely level.

I also noticed if you have Level on and then climb rapidly from a stable hover the quad veers off in one direction.

Acro mode - lots of fun - slightly terrifying in the flips but then I'm not that great at them on other hardware either.

I'm not a great PI(D) tuner at the best of times but I am getting some small oscillations after snappy stick input; any ideas about tuning those out? Once sticks are released it holds angles very well.

No noticeable wobble in rapid decents (Acro or Level).

All in all a very nice little board but I do hope Stable mode is improved.

ofcourse all this with motor/esc/prop tolerences zerod out etc.. motors are huge part of drifting in quads. specially if your using chines cheap motors.
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Percalotor View Post
ofcourse all this with motor/esc/prop tolerences zerod out etc.. motors are huge part of drifting in quads. specially if your using chines cheap motors.
My props and motors are perfectly balanced and I can take the KK2 off and drop a MWC 2.0 board on it and fly it with no unexpected behaviour.
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 03:19 PM
Mmmmmmm!
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Kingdom of Sweden, Dalarna County, Sater
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EDIT: Nevermind, sensor calibration fixed it!
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 03:25 PM
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My props and motors are perfectly balanced and I can take the KK2 off and drop a MWC 2.0 board on it and fly it with no unexpected behaviour.
im just saying... motors cant be zeroed out from any drift issues 100% its always a battle.... anyways looks like your happy either way...
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 03:55 PM
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Kingdom of Sweden, Dalarna County, Sater
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I gotta say, this board flies surprisingly nice out of the box. The default settings aren't that responsive, but it feels great. Sadly, my quad dove to the ground a few minutes into the flight because a motor is faulty. If I tug on the wires it starts to jerk back and forth. Im gonna put some glue on the wires so they dont move in flight.
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 05:25 PM
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Australia, QLD, Gold Coast
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Very nice board

I have only recently started out in RC, building a tricopter and quadcopter. And rebuilding them after a lot of crashes. My interest was largely prompted my some amazing youtube videos, many of which came from posters on this thread.

The KK2 is my second board, after the HK multirotor 2.1, and it is great for a newbie like myself. The LCD makes setting up so much easier. My board only arrived yesterday and my quad is already easier to fly. At $30, I would happily recommend this board to people starting out. Thanks to kapteinkuk I'm enjoying my new hobby more than ever.

The only issue I have with my board is the self-leveling not behaving as expected. After calibrating the sensor on a level surface, and confirming that the board is level, the actual flight is anything but level. Switching to seft-level causes the quad to tilt forward consistently. Hallstudio posted a nice video with a solution that I'll try later.
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert_AU View Post
I have only recently started out in RC, building a tricopter and quadcopter. And rebuilding them after a lot of crashes. My interest was largely prompted my some amazing youtube videos, many of which came from posters on this thread.

The KK2 is my second board, after the HK multirotor 2.1, and it is great for a newbie like myself. The LCD makes setting up so much easier. My board only arrived yesterday and my quad is already easier to fly. At $30, I would happily recommend this board to people starting out. Thanks to kapteinkuk I'm enjoying my new hobby more than ever.

The only issue I have with my board is the self-leveling not behaving as expected. After calibrating the sensor on a level surface, and confirming that the board is level, the actual flight is anything but level. Switching to seft-level causes the quad to tilt forward consistently. Hallstudio posted a nice video with a solution that I'll try later.
When setting the PID values, keep in mind that PID settings rely on much more than the type of electronics of the multirotor, i.e. type of ESC's (re-flashed on non flashed), motors, etc. but also the frame and the way it is setup, including the size and the placement of the controller. A very rigid multirotor frame for example will have a closer tolerance than a frame that allows the motors to move as in the case of plastic arms. You can always use base settings to start but always adjust them for your multirotor. And of course, if you change anything, re-do the PID. A new motor or ESC will throw off your previous settings.
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by rcjose View Post
When setting the PID values, keep in mind that PID settings rely on much more than the type of electronics of the multirotor, i.e. type of ESC's (re-flashed on non flashed), motors, etc. but also the frame and the way it is setup, including the size and the placement of the controller. A very rigid multirotor frame for example will have a closer tolerance than a frame that allows the motors to move as in the case of plastic arms. You can always use base settings to start but always adjust them for your multirotor. And of course, if you change anything, re-do the PID. A new motor or ESC will throw off your previous settings.
Yeah, that's why I spend more time doing test flights and tuning then flying... I'm always trying out new motors or a different frame design. I should just stick with one, tune it well and enjoy it... but what can I say, I'm an unsupervised engineer!
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 06:48 PM
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Canada, ON, Brampton
Joined Aug 2009
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I flew 4 paks tonite after doing some adjustments and am very happy now with the auto level. It's not like my FF board but it has a flavor of its own. Variety is a good thing

I made my adjustments according to the video a few pages back except on the self level settings I put 70/35.
This made it kick back much less when letting go of the elevator when going FF.

By the way I've got this on a Bumblebee ST550 frame with cheap motors from Sunsky and Hobbywing 20amp escs using 1045 Gemfans.

Video to come.
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 06:54 PM
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Australia, NSW, Sydney
Joined Feb 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katch View Post
Lets get autolevel out of the way - I'll reiterate my earlier comment, it feels like adding lots of expo and stops you being able to pilot the quad to aggressively - no flips etc. It still doesn't pull the copter completely level.
Have you flown a system that allows you to fly aggressively WHILE autolevel is on? I'm just asking as I would be interested to know how well that worked. The system will of course fight you to a certain degree while autolevel is on.
Certainly with say, the FF board, which has a very well respected autolevel mode - you have NO acro at all. Not sure how MWC or other systems behave.

Regarding the drift - is it always the same way?
Have you tried re-doing the autolevel calibration slightly tilted the other way to compensate?
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by HappySundays View Post
Have you flown a system that allows you to fly aggressively WHILE autolevel is on? I'm just asking as I would be interested to know how well that worked. The system will of course fight you to a certain degree while autolevel is on.
Certainly with say, the FF board, which has a very well respected autolevel mode - you have NO acro at all. Not sure how MWC or other systems behave.

Regarding the drift - is it always the same way?
Have you tried re-doing the autolevel calibration slightly tilted the other way to compensate?
The lack of ability for aggressive flight in stable wasn't a criticism just an observation and explanation of my flight experience. To me this is expected behaviour in stable mode.

When climbing fast from a flat level hover in stable mode mine always veers off drastically to the left. This behaviour is not apparent if I do the same maneuver on the same frame with a MWC in stable mode, equally it is not repeated if I perform the maneuver in Acro mode.

I'd like to see if anyone else can replicate this behavior. Get your quad hovering at about 10m nice and level in stable mode then go quickly up to WOT (or a close to WOT as you are comfortable). I am only able to do this for a second or 2 reaching about 25m before it veer off. In acro I can climb in this fashion to my limit of sight without veering.
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 08:59 PM
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Mine came today but I wasn't home to receive it. I'll pick it up from the PO tomorrow.
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