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Old Aug 16, 2012, 02:32 PM
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Son, Norway
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Originally Posted by Erknie View Post
The KK2 CPPM default order is Roll, Pitch, Yaw, Throttle, AUX.
Do you really think this was the intention? I think not, because the majority of systems and FC's are AETR, as Del-Dredd pointed out. The KK2 is AETR when using normal Rx connection, and when I set up CPPM with channels 1,2,3,4,5 it works with my AETR system. So KK2 CPPM is AETR, it's just a swap of the names for throttle and yaw functions. No big deal if receiver test is performed after making the settings, as this error will be obvious during the test.

Fred
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 02:34 PM
jhi
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Norway
Joined Jun 2009
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Originally Posted by pberge View Post
I just had a blast flying through 2 full packs during my lunch break. It was a fairly windy day, but I had no stability issues at all. After adjusting my voltage alarm, I was able to get almost 14 minutes of flying per battery, including lots of flips and rolls. I had the alarm set to 10.5V, but bumped it up to 11.0 to give me a little more time to safely land.

There was one close call when I attempted my first flip on the diagonal. I didn't quite rotate enough and started heading for the ground. I was able to get things level about 1 foot before touching down. It was a fairly hard landing, but perfectly flat and on grass, so no damage was done. Needless to say, I am extremely happy with my quad right now!

Roll/Pitch
P-Gain: 70
I-Gain: 15
Stick Scaling: 80

Yaw
P-Gain: 50
I-Gain: 25
Stick Scaling: 60
pberge,

Nice quad and skilful flying! Sometime I want to try a flips and rolls also, but until now I never got the nerve... someday soon!

Some questions about endurance..
I have almost the same KK2 setup as you for roll/pitch and yaw, and also the same battery. I could swear I timed it to about 12 minutes for my first flights hovering in my garden.

Two days ago, after finishing my H-copter scratch build, I made this video at our local flying field. The KK2 low voltage alarm acted normally, no alarms until battery was down to abt. 11.2V (alarm set to 10.7V). Emptied 5 Turnigy Nanotech 3Ah batteries

Yesterday it was a bit windy, but my H-copter was a joy to fly, no problems with stabilty. But something with the battery alarm had changed - the alarm was "chirping" almost all the time flying upwind (a little turbulent) - slowly flying downwind - no "chirping". Some of my batteries are old, but I also brought a brand new Turnigy Nanotech 3Ah (25-50 discharge!) - same thing . I connected a Turnigy watt meter and power analyzer (payload 95g), the amp reading never exceeded 19A, and voltage never below 11.5V during testing. Alarm still chirping.. And flight time down to 8 minutes - end voltage down to abt. 11V!!

Now I wonder - what is happening and how much is weight part of the problem? The weight of my H-copter is probably heavier than yours, AUW=1050g. Props: RCTimer 10x4.5, ESCs: RCTimer simonized 20A, motors: HobbyKing DT750. How much does your quad weigh?

What do you think guys, should I put my 'H' on a diet? Suggestions?

/Jan

H copter Skaflestad 140812 (5 min 30 sec)
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Last edited by jhi; Aug 16, 2012 at 02:41 PM.
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 02:44 PM
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Hello. I have a problem. I'm connected battery to voltage monitor in wrong polarity when the main power was on. And now board don't work. There is no visual damage on board. What was damaged?
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 02:51 PM
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Hmm its working when i connected it to usbasp programmer.
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 02:58 PM
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Austria
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Originally Posted by UrsusRF View Post
Hello. I have a problem. I'm connected battery to voltage monitor in wrong polarity when the main power was on. And now board don't work. There is no visual damage on board. What was damaged?
Damned video instruction that wrongly suggest to solder a ground and use 2 lines instead of just one. (For clarify, even mr. Kk stated only 1 line need to be connected ... but who made the 1st video instruction on youTube is a bad electronic expert ... somebody to be banned from youTube )

So, were did you solder the ground ? ... follow this line, you made a short from the m1 plug to your ground connection, so you may have burn some ground pcb lines ... something fixable if yo find this line

You may also have damage some ground line in the motor 1 esc ...

Tchuss

E_lm_70
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 03:01 PM
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Son, Norway
Joined Sep 2004
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Originally Posted by UrsusRF View Post
Hello. I have a problem. I'm connected battery to voltage monitor in wrong polarity when the main power was on. And now board don't work. There is no visual damage on board. What was damaged?
Did you use dual cabling, +12V and ground, or just a single wire between sensing pin and battery? The first case it would mean shorting the battery.

Fred
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 03:16 PM
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Austria
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Originally Posted by flarssen View Post
Did you use dual cabling, +12V and ground, or just a single wire between sensing pin and battery? The first case it would mean shorting the battery.

Fred
With single cable nothing can happen

With dual cable, he for sure plug +Vcc (8 or 12 volt, 2s or 3s) in a place that is for ground

The path from ESC motor 1 ground to his connection got burned in the weakest point

I don't expect any component got damage ... just some pcb places dont get a ground

Eventually add a new line between the solder point and the m1 ground should put back to live the pcb
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 03:44 PM
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Yonkers, NY
Joined Jan 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhi View Post
pberge,

Nice quad and skilful flying! Sometime I want to try a flips and rolls also, but until now I never got the nerve... someday soon!

Some questions about endurance..
I have almost the same KK2 setup as you for roll/pitch and yaw, and also the same battery. I could swear I timed it to about 12 minutes for my first flights hovering in my garden.

Two days ago, after finishing my H-copter scratch build, I made this video at our local flying field. The KK2 low voltage alarm acted normally, no alarms until battery was down to abt. 11.2V (alarm set to 10.7V). Emptied 5 Turnigy Nanotech 3Ah batteries

Yesterday it was a bit windy, but my H-copter was a joy to fly, no problems with stabilty. But something with the battery alarm had changed - the alarm was "chirping" almost all the time flying upwind (a little turbulent) - slowly flying downwind - no "chirping". Some of my batteries are old, but I also brought a brand new Turnigy Nanotech 3Ah (25-50 discharge!) - same thing . I connected a Turnigy watt meter and power analyzer (payload 95g), the amp reading never exceeded 19A, and voltage never below 11.5V during testing. Alarm still chirping.. And flight time down to 8 minutes - end voltage down to abt. 11V!!

Now I wonder - what is happening and how much is weight part of the problem? The weight of my H-copter is probably heavier than yours, AUW=1050g. Props: RCTimer 10x4.5, ESCs: RCTimer simonized 20A, motors: HobbyKing DT750. How much does your quad weigh?

What do you think guys, should I put my 'H' on a diet? Suggestions?

/Jan
Thanks. I have had a lot of practice with my little Blade MQX and have been putting in a lot of time with the Gaui 330x model in the Phoenix Simulator. I attempted to tune it so that it behaves somewhat similar to my quad. It really helped prepare me for my first flip in the field.

I haven't put mine on a scale, but on paper it should weigh in at around 950g, so no big difference there.

I suspect that the main difference in flight time is due to prop and motor selection. I'm using 9" props with an 1100kv motor, vs your 10" props and 750kv motor.

Running the numbers through eCalc. My configuration, assuming 950g weight, says 12.2A in hover and flight hover time of 13.78 minutes.

I cannot find the DT750 on ecalc, but one spec that jumps out at me is the 1.4A no load current. This seems high to me. My motor is 0.7A. Leaving all other parameters the same and changing my no load current to 1.4A results in a hover current of 15.25A and drops the flight time down to 11 minutes.

As for the voltage alarm issue. I would try measuring the voltage at the point on the board where the voltage monitor lead is soldered and compare it to the voltage at the battery. If you see a big difference you may have a bad solder joint. Also, my voltage display on the KK2 is reading 0.1-0.2V higher than my volt meter, so you may want to check for any offset and compensate accordingly.
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 03:53 PM
jhi
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Norway
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pberge View Post
Thanks. I have had a lot of practice with my little Blade MQX and have been putting in a lot of time with the Gaui 330x model in the Phoenix Simulator. I attempted to tune it so that it behaves somewhat similar to my quad. It really helped prepare me for my first flip in the field.

I haven't put mine on a scale, but on paper it should weigh in at around 950g, so no big difference there.

I suspect that the main difference in flight time is due to prop and motor selection. I'm using 9" props with an 1100kv motor, vs your 10" props and 750kv motor.

Running the numbers through eCalc. My configuration, assuming 950g weight, says 12.2A in hover and flight hover time of 13.78 minutes.

I cannot find the DT750 on ecalc, but one spec that jumps out at me is the 1.4A no load current. This seems high to me. My motor is 0.7A. Leaving all other parameters the same and changing my no load current to 1.4A results in a hover current of 15.25A and drops the flight time down to 11 minutes.

As for the voltage alarm issue. I would try measuring the voltage at the point on the board where the voltage monitor lead is soldered and compare it to the voltage at the battery. If you see a big difference you may have a bad solder joint. Also, my voltage display on the KK2 is reading 0.1-0.2V higher than my volt meter, so you may want to check for any offset and compensate accordingly.
Thanks a lot for the tips! Tomorrow I shall also measure amp draw during hover (with the neccessary 95g payload - the analyzer). And also maybe check how much is going back into the batteries during charge.
I think I also have some other props to try, maybe 10x3.7 instead og 10x4.5.

We'll see...

/Jan
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 04:00 PM
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Canada, BC, North Vancouver
Joined Dec 2010
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Originally Posted by bobepine View Post
That said, the F-20 are el cheapos at about 7 bucks each and I had one quit on me in mid air. Picked up the quad and the darn thing spooled up fine again. Tech 69 had the same thing happen to him with the same F-20 simonized ESCs. I have not flown that quad since as I know this is bound to happen again. It flies fine now, but the question is when is an ESC going to quit in flight again? I'm not chancing it. I am going back to better quality and more reliable non flashed ESCs. Works for me just fine. No... works better.
I would appreciate it if you could post some more details here about the setup which failed (motor, battery, prop, if it made any beeping sounds, etc), since I've never had any of them fail on me for quite some time, and they obviously shouldn't. Also, the previous comment about doing a comparison between unflashed and flashed F-20A is a valid one. As I said previously, Hobbywing OEMs (Skywalker, Turnigy Plush, etc.) and their clones (RCTimer) are about the best response you can get from stock firmware. You will see the least difference with them, and the most difference if you compare against stock firmware from other ESCs. For me, the project started from not being able to stand the 8kHz PWM.
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 04:04 PM
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Indonesia
Joined Apr 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wasp09 View Post
I would suggest lowering the self level P gain to below 10.

Trim your TX to get the readings in RX signal test as close to 0 as you can.

Add self level trims to make it stay still (you can only do that when there is no wind.)

Also try setting minthrottle to 20 under misc setting menu to see if helps to address the low throttle oscillation.
thanks for your suggestions
I'll try it today
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 04:11 PM
RC pilot by soul
Israel
Joined Apr 2005
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Dos anyone have a good set of parameters for KK2.0 board V2.0 for RCExplorer V2.5 tricopter ?
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 04:29 PM
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Austria
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Originally Posted by bobepine View Post
I don't know about rctimers, but I was running skywalfers 20 amps ESCs on my DJI and never had issues. They were rock solid reliable. I then replaced them with F20 HK simonized ESCs. The improvement was marginal, as you put it. Hardly noticeable in my case. The only difference is I was able to run higher P gain. That said, the F-20 are el cheapos at about 7 bucks each and I had one quit on me in mid air. Picked up the quad and the darn thing spooled up fine again. Tech 69 had the same thing happen to him with the same F-20 simonized ESCs. I have not flown that quad since as I know this is bound to happen again. It flies fine now, but the question is when is an ESC going to quit in flight again? I'm not chancing it. I am going back to better quality and more reliable non flashed ESCs. Works for me just fine. No... works better.

Best,
Chris
Did your wife cheat you with simonk

Else I don't get your passion against fleshed ESC

Tchuss

E_lm_70

Ps: Mr. KK , maybe the father of the quadCopter, the master of the atmega chips, he, fly with simonK firmware in his ESC ... this says all ...

Pps: you may know that simonk firmware is open source, and it is based on atmega cpu ... so Mr. Kk can read it like an article on a newspaper
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 04:56 PM
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Australia, NSW, Sydney
Joined Feb 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e_lm_70 View Post
Damned video instruction that wrongly suggest to solder a ground and use 2 lines instead of just one. (For clarify, even mr. Kk stated only 1 line need to be connected ... but who made the 1st video instruction on youTube is a bad electronic expert ... somebody to be banned from youTube )
E_lm_70
Sorry but that is quite misleading, and the poster is certainly not a "bad electronic expert".
It would take a *lot* of text to explain why a ground is *always* a good idea and why the extreme currents that pass through a LiPo's ground lead will adversely affect the battery monitoring circuit, but it's true. The ground signal that you get from the BEC built into the ESC (that connects to the KK2) is NOT the same as the ground signal at the -ve terminal of the high-current connector of the ESC which is where you typically attach the battery monitoring cable. In a static, DC sense they are of course connected, but once any kind of current is flowing in the battery leads of the ESC there will be an offset *and* a huge amount of noise.

This isn't Lego. While it may make sense to someone with no electronic knowledge to just "Plug A into B", real life is vastly more complicated than that.

I use both signal and ground for my battery connections.

It is true that with only ONE cable, connecting it backwards is not an issue, but that's just a screw-up by the person involved. I think that is why kapteinkuk said that one one was needed. To just measure the battery, you only need one. To measure it properly, you need two.

Use one wire if you like but it is most definitely not best Engineering practice.
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by e_lm_70 View Post
With single cable nothing can happen

With dual cable, he for sure plug +Vcc (8 or 12 volt, 2s or 3s) in a place that is for ground

The path from ESC motor 1 ground to his connection got burned in the weakest point

I don't expect any component got damage ... just some pcb places dont get a ground

Eventually add a new line between the solder point and the m1 ground should put back to live the pcb
Yes the problem was in ground line to m1. I soldered wire between motor ground pins and ground pin for programmer and now board works. Thnx for help.

Now i have another problem. I have F-20A esc(stockFW) and rctimer 2830 motors. X copter configuration. I calibrated it throw board and only 2 and 3 motors starts in same time. 1 statrs a bit later. 4 starts much later. I tryed to calibrate it directly from Tx(9x) and nothing changed. When i give throtle to copter in my hand and roll it only 2 and 3 responds normaly. 1 responds a bit later. 4 responds much later or have no respond at all. What it can be?

Sorry for my english. I hope you understand what i mean.
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