HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Jun 19, 2012, 04:02 PM
Registered User
United Kingdom, England, Nantwich
Joined Jan 2012
255 Posts
Help!
Lawn Darts anyone?

Had a good few flights with my cub tonight so thought I would maiden my stock Stinger 64. Bad idea. Even after reading every post on here about this plane, ready for the torque roll and givin it a good shove in the air at WOT it still ended up sticking in the ground

It's fixed now and ready for the next darts session. So what did I do wrong? It seemed to me that even ready for the roll it just wouldn't correct. I assume not enought air over the surfaces to make them effective? It's CG is correct as per other board members measurements.
Should I launch it next time with aileron already applied maybe?
What would you do?
Hixxer is offline Find More Posts by Hixxer
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jun 19, 2012, 07:13 PM
Look out below
mcnowhere's Avatar
United States, OR, McMinnville
Joined Aug 2011
1,073 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hixxer View Post
ready for the torque roll and givin it a good shove in the air at WOT it still ended up sticking in the ground

It's fixed now and ready for the next darts session. So what did I do wrong?
Should I launch it next time with aileron already applied maybe?
What would you do?
You sure it has torque roll? Not familiar with it so google says its a EDF
mcnowhere is offline Find More Posts by mcnowhere
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 20, 2012, 12:11 AM
Rocket Programmer
jasmine2501's Avatar
United States, AZ, Mesa
Joined Jul 2007
25,075 Posts
EDF should not have a strong torque roll, but it will take a long time to accelerate. Probably, your control input prevented it from getting up to speed. The proper way to toss a plane is straight, not hard. Smooth is more important than fast. Toss it upward a little bit, but not too far up - about 20 degrees should do it. Then wait for it to accelerate before giving a tiny bit of elevator - give just enough elevator to keep it off the ground - put in lots of expo so you can be precise.

Should be just like launching a Stryker, except you have the power on - here's two views of that - the first-person view is a very bad launch actually, but I let it settle in before I try to move it around too much and it all goes fine.
Proper Stryker Launching Technique (1 min 0 sec)


RC Pylon Racing Pilot View (7 min 44 sec)
jasmine2501 is offline Find More Posts by jasmine2501
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 20, 2012, 06:00 AM
Air, Ground & Water
freechip's Avatar
Canada, ON, Rockland
Joined Aug 2008
22,269 Posts
All my hand launching PLANES I launch with just enough throttle to keep her floating then gently apply throttle once it gets moving and air circulates over the wings.

My EDF Euro Fighter I launch like mentioned above, throttle slight angle up and just enough elevator to avoid the ground and wait for it to get speed before starting to climb.
freechip is online now Find More Posts by freechip
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 20, 2012, 07:07 AM
Registered User
United Kingdom, England, Nantwich
Joined Jan 2012
255 Posts
Thanks for the help guys, I will try a little more finesse in the hand launch and less input from me and see where she ends up.
Hixxer is offline Find More Posts by Hixxer
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 20, 2012, 12:38 PM
Rocket Programmer
jasmine2501's Avatar
United States, AZ, Mesa
Joined Jul 2007
25,075 Posts
And of course the best option IMO for a plane like that is to go ahead and put the wheels on it and find a nice long runway.
jasmine2501 is offline Find More Posts by jasmine2501
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 20, 2012, 01:32 PM
Registered User
Joined Mar 2012
325 Posts
I hand launch at a slight down angle (1 or 2 degrees) for people. That way the wing isn't in an immediate stall condition. You need unstalled airflow to avoid snaps. A straight line push (shoulder/elbow like a shot put) rather than arc'ing throw is best.
NACA0012 is offline Find More Posts by NACA0012
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 20, 2012, 09:31 PM
Rocket Programmer
jasmine2501's Avatar
United States, AZ, Mesa
Joined Jul 2007
25,075 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by NACA0012 View Post
I hand launch at a slight down angle (1 or 2 degrees) for people. That way the wing isn't in an immediate stall condition. You need unstalled airflow to avoid snaps. A straight line push (shoulder/elbow like a shot put) rather than arc'ing throw is best.
That works great for planes with lift, but this is a jet...
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s..._EPO_PNF_.html
jasmine2501 is offline Find More Posts by jasmine2501
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 20, 2012, 11:45 PM
Registered User
Joined Mar 2012
325 Posts
I toss jets the same way. If it has wings, it has to produce lift or it won't fly. Anything tossed into a stall has to muscle its way to some airspeed before its going to have any control surface authority, and during that period bad things can and do happen.

All the 1 or 2 degree plane level down toss does is produce unstalled airflow right out of my hand. Yes it will drop a few feet until airspeed builds, but its not stalled and will have some aileron authority.

Nobody has ever lost a plane doing it my way ;->
NACA0012 is offline Find More Posts by NACA0012
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 21, 2012, 12:04 AM
Rocket Programmer
jasmine2501's Avatar
United States, AZ, Mesa
Joined Jul 2007
25,075 Posts
I guess we disagree then... IMO, level and downward tosses will not work with jets, particularly with noobs at the sticks. Things just happen too fast. If you toss it upward slightly (nothing major here) then you will have plenty of time to get on the sticks while it accelerates. It won't be in a stall at release - the idea is to get it above hand-height so you you have plenty of altitude to play with. Altitude is potential energy, and if you aren't providing energy with your toss, you might as well not toss it at all. If you throw like I did the Stryker in the video, then at the top of the arc it will still have lots of airspeed, and you will begin using the potential energy from the height, and you will have more of that to use than what you have if you toss it level or downward. I suspect what the OP did is exactly what you said - tossed it into a stall - but the mistake was not doing that in the first place, the mistake was allowing the stall to continue.

I still think it's best to put some wheels on it - that way you have a long time to get it up to speed, and if it doesn't want to take off for some reason, you won't be 5 feet in the air. The plane might not have enough power to fly at all, and if that's the case, no amount of technique will help, and in that situation I'd rather be rolling along the ground than be 5 feet in the air.
jasmine2501 is offline Find More Posts by jasmine2501
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 21, 2012, 05:16 PM
AMA 754
BobRCnut's Avatar
Phoenix area
Joined Apr 2004
1,581 Posts
EDFs are tough to handlaunch even under perfect conditions, because there's no propwash over the control surfaces. The only EDF I ever saw that handlaunched easily was the GWS F-15.
BobRCnut is offline Find More Posts by BobRCnut
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Kelly + dive = lawn dart DenverDave Electric Sailplanes 6 May 12, 2003 02:35 PM
Lawn Dart GIFLYRC Fuel Plane Talk 8 Jan 11, 2003 07:23 PM
Lawn Dart - 2 1/2 great flights today on the EStreak Bill Germanson Sport Planes 14 Oct 03, 2002 08:51 PM
Firebird,Lawn Dart, Same thing? rays89 Parkflyers 27 Jun 10, 2001 10:38 PM