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Old Nov 07, 2003, 09:43 PM
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New Guide for Thunder Power Packs - HeliHobby.com

Hi Guys,

Here is a new link compiled by Jason at Thunder Power on behalf of HeliHobby.com which makes your choice of setup per Thunder Power packs just a bit easier ...


Look here:

http://www.helihobby.com/html/thunder_powers.html

Always glad to help,
Sean - HeliHobby.com
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Old Nov 07, 2003, 11:03 PM
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Man, I gotta talk to Jason. These numbers are way to conservative, in my opinion!

-- Gary
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Old Nov 08, 2003, 02:08 AM
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yeah, i think there might be some typos in there. at least i hope so. 6s4p on a hacker B50 20XL would be a total dog in a logo 20/24.
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Old Nov 08, 2003, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ben74
yeah, i think there might be some typos in there. at least i hope so. 6s4p on a hacker B50 20XL would be a total dog in a logo 20/24.
Yup, typo - 8S4P, B50 20XL recommended by Aero-Model and also from talking to Jason recently.

Cheers!

Glen
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Old Nov 08, 2003, 07:44 AM
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I disagree with the Eolo recommendations. The TP8000 3s4p is way WAY to heavy for that little helicopter. I am using a TP6000 3s3p and even that is a bit on the heavy side. Something like TP2000 4s2p and a lower Kv motor would be a MUCH better choice.
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Old Nov 10, 2003, 10:07 PM
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Thanks guys for the info ...
We can make this a "Live Document" for a point of reference to help out new flyers ..

I will modify the doc ...
Please let me know of any feedback as I wish for this to be as accurate as possible ...

Thank you for all the help,
Sean - HeliHobby.com
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Old Nov 10, 2003, 10:29 PM
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Conservative is right

You guys have to remember this chart is just a flat basis for the bulk of the e-pilots out there. I told Sean that 3s3p/4s2p for the Eolo/Eco 8/Voyager E, 5s3p to the new 8s2p set ups for the Logo 10, plus the 7-8s set ups for the Logo 20s are ALL POSSIBLE. But without truly understanding many things about e-helis, I dont think these set ups are for everyone.....yet!

I do plan to add to the chart, but for now, all the 6s4p set ups were correct, as were the 3s4p sets ups for the Eolo. Just because they are not the highest performance set ups does not mean they dont work - they are meant to be the starting point to mover into the higher level power systems. Ive flown the Eolo on the 3s4p packs and it flies very well for almost 30 minutes - this is what MOST beginners are after when they first start - not 15 minutes of all out 3D flying on the higher voltage set ups.

Still, there are some beginners who might be ready for jump right into the "power" set ups and its certainly not impossible. I told Sean to feel free and have them call or email me for advice on the hotter set ups we all run now (and in the future). Trust me, I keep tabs on EVERY heli, from motors to pinion, packs and many of them I have personally owned and flown. None of the set ups listed dont work - some just are more suited to a certain type of pilot than others. While the 8s2p pack I fly on the Logo 10 now is truly unreal, could you imagine what most guys would say if that was posted as a set up? If the Mikado site and AeroModel site said 11L-15L with 4-5s pack and I put 15XL with 8s2p most would think exactly the opposite of what you guys are thinking - that guy is crazy, that would never work!

Once we all get more time on our new set ups, Im definitely planning to add them to the list with a disclaimer by certain choices so people understand they need to be careful. I dont want any beginners flying a Logo 20 with 600mm blade spinning 2000 RPM on 8s4p or 10s2p packs until they TRULY understand what theyre getting into! The same reason few beginners start with 90 sized helis on 30% fuel and pipes Not to say none ever do - but the few who do generally have a very good understanding of what is going on.

Again, this chart was just the start of something destined to cover a much larger scope. I chose set ups I have flown or seen flown with great success. Yes, the B50-20XL on 6s4p packs will fly - its pretty much right on par with the power my Logo 20 had with the Pletti on 20 cells. It was weak by (US) 3D standards, but its the kind of set up some guys just might like to fly, and most importantly, not far off what Mikado and other sources may recomend.

My guess is that chart will be ancient by next year anyhow Once we all get out flying our new high voltage set ups, itll change how everyone chooses motors and packs. Id say the bulk of guys buying LiPo packs now are already flying 10-24 cell packs on their helis and much of what is listed works perfectly for them. Not all of them are ready to plunk down for a new motor, ESC and charger to use high voltage LiPo packs. Though after they see our set ups fly Im sure some of them will

I'll be emailing Sean the more "agressive" set ups later in the week!

Jason
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Old Nov 11, 2003, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by LVRCFlyer
Conservative is right
....all the 6s4p set ups were correct
Hi Jason,

Hmmmmm. Although Sean has already changed it to 8S4P, you're saying that the 6S4P was CORRECT for all the 3-D setups listed for the LOGO 20? That does not sound right. I know you think that you're a good pilot, but maybe there's a few other souls in North America who could also take a tiger by the tail As it was, I think that suggesting the 6S4P for 3D was misleading! Every motor listing for the LOGO 20 included 3D and suggested a 6S4P battery.

Quote:
I dont want any beginners flying a Logo 20 with 600mm blade spinning 2000 RPM on 8s4p or 10s2p packs until they TRULY understand what theyre getting into! "
And then have to buy another pack?

But NOTHING said that this was a beginners guide. Besides, beginners would be well advised not to use LiPo's because of the risk that any crash could render the pack unusable (for the heli, at least). Isn't this true? You don't need to protect people from 2000 RPM on a LOGO 20 - many round cell setups will easily do this too. Mine does.

I see what your're saying though - I think if a chart is going to be published at all, then it should be complete enough to state what rpms would be expected. Why not just add another column or 2 beside each motor setup so that there would be a few rpm ranges and then insert the pack configuration that would get you there.

Cheers!
Glen Peden - Mikado field rep
http://www.logoheli.com
Visit the LOGOmaniac Forums
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Old Nov 11, 2003, 12:16 AM
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While I generally agree with you, come on Jason, 3s4p for an Eolo?? If all you are doing is hovering, you can do that with a 3s3p for 25 minutes!

I'm just generally against recommending these low voltage/highcurrent/high heat configurations when you and I both know that most of these people are either going to be switching soon, or wish they could afford to.

-- Gary
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Old Nov 11, 2003, 01:24 AM
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Unfortunately guys, youre not seeing where I was coming from...

Yes, 6s4p was correct for some of the combos. I fly an 8lb RappE with a 15XL on 6s4p and it is plenty 3D capable. Jeff Fassbinder from Thunder Tiger flew it and agreed it was as 3D capable as just about any 50 sized heli out there. The Logo 20 weighs 1lb less with the same motor and packs - and Ive flown a Logo 20 with the 16XL on 6s4p packs and it was a rocket....more power than my Pletti put out on 24 cells (but not when compared to the Pletti on 8s4p of course ). While I would agree that a Pletti or Tango motor on 6s4p packs would not be aggressively 3D capable (At least by our US standards), keep in mind that Ralf @ Mikado STILL recomends these motors for use in Expert/3D flying on 20 cells which are heavier than the 6s4p packs.

Just because some havent flown or seen these combos in action doesnt mean they wont work. Ive been lucky enough to fly all sorts of helis in the past year on TP LiPos. Most of what I recomended was conservative for the beginner, but also, it was a reference for people ALREADY USING round cells. I recomended the Li alternative for the Ni packs they commonly use, as a drop in replacement. If a guy typically uses 24 cells, after 5 minutes of research he would already know 6s4p is not the proper alternative for his set up. Then he would ask a vendor such as Heli Hobby what would be more suitable to use - and thats a question I wanted the guy to ask. See, going to 8s4p would be the closest alternative to the same or more power than 24 cells, but is it a direct drop in replacement? No, that guy would need understand it is more powerful and he should check his temps, set up, etc when using these new and more powerful packs.

Before I even sent the chart to Sean I told him the chart WAS conservative. I relayed that MANY of the Logo 20 set ups were "mild" and that 7s4p or 8s4p were more commonly used for hard 3D flying. I told him this is what a guy who wants the most power would need and told him not to hesitate in having them call or email me for more info (Or consult everyone here on the Zone). I originally had the chart twice the original length, covering ALL the possible set ups for 7s4p and 8s4p packs....even a 10s2p set up that I know will work. I chose to leave them off so guys who wanted all the power they could get would really research and find exactly what they needed.

We need not forget how small the EZone really is. Just because a few dozen of us are on the cutting edge doesnt mean all the other Logo, Eolo, or many other heli pilots out there are. As much as I think EVERYONE should be cutting edge, the truth is, the majority of people never will be. How many people dont have DSL or cable modems out there? I couldnt live without my super-fast net connection, yet many can. The same way most of the e-heli pilots out there will continue to fly these "old" set ups for many years to come - even after seeing our hotter set ups fly.

You guys know that Im up to date on power systems....thats not a question here. What I had to look at was the general marketplace, and make recomendations based on what MOST people currently fly or will choose to fly in the coming months. Again, Sean can tell you that I told him there are many more possible set ups out there - most with far more power than anything listed on the chart now, but that I wanted people to ask so that way when they chose such a set up they were as informed as they possibly could be. Ive heard far more people talk about blown motors, ESCs, etc than anything posted here on the EZone when people try "high power" set ups we use every day...

The turth is, not everyone is ready for the set ups we look at as second nature to us right now (referencing our new high voltage set ups). Also, the chart was built around the packs that Heli Hobby stocks - I did not recomend 3s3p packs yet since Sean does not currently sell/stock them. This chart was for his own use, to help with his own sales on his web site and in his store. While I knew the chart would be published on the web for people to view world-wide, I did not want to recomend 3s3p, 8s2p, etc packs that Sean did not currently stock.

I hope you guys can better understand where I was coming from. The chart was not meant to cover everything - it was built to help Heli Hobby. With Sean's permission, I dont mind adding my new set up for the Logo 10, along with a number of the other "high power" set ups for the Logo 20/24 and even the Eolo. I really like Glen's suggestion of adding ranges of RPMs, and I'll definitely do that too.

Jason
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Last edited by LVRCFlyer; Nov 11, 2003 at 01:37 AM.
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Old Nov 11, 2003, 02:20 AM
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Okay, I get it.

Sean, you should avoid the Christmas rush and order some 8s2p packs...

-- Gary
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Old Nov 11, 2003, 05:44 AM
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Jason, your chart may need some touching up, I wouldn't even begin to know.
But for someone just beginning to wade into the quagmire of lipo sizing and terminology like I am, it was immensely helpful.

Even with searches you have to dig through a lot of posts to begin to find what you should consider buying. I really appreciate having a chart with suggested systems at my fingertips.

Thank you for your effort.

Tim
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