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Old Jul 08, 2012, 08:14 AM
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Norfolk, England
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Something like this. do you mean? However, even I can't fit an 15" tailplane onto an 11" sheet of paper.

I took these from the pdf, at full size, so there's always a chance they're the right size.
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 08:34 AM
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That worked great Pete.

Thanks
Jim

Thanks for the reference material too. Just what I needed.
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 04:27 PM
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For most plans we get the graphics shop to do it. Send them a pdf file and they print it full size, for quite a bit less than Kinko's, even if it is a one-off.

Most will also print and ship, but, that's a bit more, mainly in postage. Look around your area and see if you have a shop you could use.

I tried the tile and print several times. It works, but, is tedious.

charlie
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 04:34 PM
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JIMA,
have you looked on Google Images for Nieuport 17 Rawlings as your criteria?
There are a few private shots on Flicker of the movie plane and even a photo of the decal sheet.
The Eduard "Flyboys" 72 scale kit is still available. I know some modelers will buy the kit as reference or to scan and have larger scale vinyl decals or paint masks be cut from it with some additional work. Callie does amazing vinyl decals, in case you are interested.
What details are you looking for?
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAFster View Post
JIMA,
have you looked on Google Images for Nieuport 17 Rawlings as your criteria?
There are a few private shots on Flicker of the movie plane and even a photo of the decal sheet.
The Eduard "Flyboys" 72 scale kit is still available. I know some modelers will buy the kit as reference or to scan and have larger scale vinyl decals or paint masks be cut from it with some additional work. Callie does amazing vinyl decals, in case you are interested.
What details are you looking for?
I was looking for walkaround shots all over the plane. I have already been to Callie's site and she already has the decals I want for sale. Just have not placed and order yet.

Jim
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 10:26 PM
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I echo what Charlie said on pricing, places that cater to architects and do blueprints are often cheaper. Here a chain called Alphagraphics is 1/2 the price or less for large prints, when compared to Kinkos.
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Old Jul 14, 2012, 03:42 PM
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I have run out of parts. Guess that means it is time to start covering and finishing.

During the last week, I made the rudder and stabilizer by laminating 1/16 x 1/8 balsa using forms I cut from Fan Fold Foam. The forms were pinned to the board. The strips were spot glued at one end with CA. I then sprayed the strips with a solution of 50/50 water and ammonia. Ran a line of Gorrilla white glue between each strip and then carefully bent the whole assembly around the form using scrap balsa pinned in place to hold the laminations in position. It is quite easy to do and gives amazing results.

I made the undercarriage today. I like to solder them together in place. And I am cheating by using prefab wheels. After I got her up on her legs, I decided to take some bare bones pics. Still need to make a hatch for the bottom but the building part is all but done.

I have started the finishing process. The cowling is covered in silkspan and lacquer with a talcum powder fill. The powder also helps in the sanding as it acts as a lubricant similar to wet sanding. Plus it smells good. The cowling is almost complete. I will also do the sheeted part of the fuse the same way.

First the bare balsa has all the imperfections filled with spackle. The spackle is sanded with 220. Then I coat it with a slurry mixture of talcum powder and thinned lacquer. After two coats have had a chance to dry, sand with 220.
This should fill most all of the imperfections. Next will apply the silkspan and thinned lacquer. After the silkspan has dried. I go back again with two slurry coats of talcum and thinned lacquer. This will fill the weave of the silkspan. Then sand with 220. Then successively coat with just thinned lacquer and sand with 320 for about 2 applications. Then coat and sand with 400. Now the balsa should be as smooth as a ... well it should be very smooth. The rest of the model will be covered with Polyspan.

BTW the silkspan I am using came from old Guillows FF kits that I purchased years ago when the kits sold for about $4.00. Saved the plans and the tissue. Tossed all the wood.

Jim
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Old Jul 14, 2012, 07:08 PM
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Looks great Jim!!

Be careful with the polyspan, make sure you keep the shiny side up... I just had a bit of trouble with the stuff. But of course I ALWAYS have trouble with covering material!!!

I found that baby powder and laqure/dope fills the weave very quickly in polyspan. You can't beat the stuff for resistance to holes being punched in it.


Bill
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 10:35 AM
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Thanks Bill.

I still need to get my battery hatch sorted out and need to figure out how to run the aileron servo wires into the fuse. Then covering can commence.

Jim
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 11:16 AM
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Looking beautiful mate, please tell me you are going to make card covers for the wheels Pete's built up wheels work very well, and are suprisingly durable on these sized models, nice and light too!

Cheers
Craig
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 11:42 AM
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Wow! What a lovely bird. I need to build again. I've got caught up in some ARF's lately. Very well done indeed.
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 12:32 PM
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Looking beautiful mate, please tell me you are going to make card covers for the wheels Pete's built up wheels work very well, and are suprisingly durable on these sized models, nice and light too!

Cheers
Craig
Thanks Craig.

I haven't tried any of the laser cut versions of the wheels. The ones I made from scratch in the past did not turn out so well. I may go ahead and build the ones that come with the kit to see if I can do better. If not, card covers for the plastic wheels are a must.

Now if I could just work out how to build and attach the battery hatch I can move forward. The curved underbelly of the N17 is giving me fits trying to figure it out.

Jim
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 03:23 PM
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It's a bit of 1/32 ply, how hard can it be to arrange a tongue at the front and a latch (wire in tube) at the back? Alternatively, cut some bits to match the curve, glue the ply to them and use magnets to retain it.

Of more concern to me was mention of 90 watts/lb power level for this model - over 1.5 times what it's intended for. Actually closer to twice the level I'd intended, and enough to take the model way outside the intended power/weight specs. A prototype build is precious little use if the model has almost twice the power it was designed to use. Just because they show the planes flying like Pitts Specials in the film, that doesn't mean the original really flew like that. They didn't have a huge excess of power and normal flying consisted of much tooling around, with just enough agility to get out of (into) trouble when required. No big, sweeping loops, but lots of jockeying for position or stealthy, sneak attacks.
So, since I was asked to design the model, and obliged, it would be awfully nice if it was powered as I intended it to be. At the very least until it has been proven, photographed and written up. After that, I don't care how much power you cram into it to 'improve' the way it flies.
I don't mind cosmetic changes, like the wheels, or even a fictitious colour scheme, but that much more power alters the very nature of the entire model.

Pete
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by PETERRAKE View Post
It's a bit of 1/32 ply, how hard can it be to arrange a tongue at the front and a latch (wire in tube) at the back? Alternatively, cut some bits to match the curve, glue the ply to them and use magnets to retain it.

Of more concern to me was mention of 90 watts/lb power level for this model - over 1.5 times what it's intended for. Actually closer to twice the level I'd intended, and enough to take the model way outside the intended power/weight specs. A prototype build is precious little use if the model has almost twice the power it was designed to use. Just because they show the planes flying like Pitts Specials in the film, that doesn't mean the original really flew like that. They didn't have a huge excess of power and normal flying consisted of much tooling around, with just enough agility to get out of (into) trouble when required. No big, sweeping loops, but lots of jockeying for position or stealthy, sneak attacks.
So, since I was asked to design the model, and obliged, it would be awfully nice if it was powered as I intended it to be. At the very least until it has been proven, photographed and written up. After that, I don't care how much power you cram into it to 'improve' the way it flies.
I don't mind cosmetic changes, like the wheels, or even a fictitious colour scheme, but that much more power alters the very nature of the entire model.

Pete
Thanks for the criticism Pete. When the master speaks I should heed your advice. Please excuse my ignorance.

All of the models of yours that I built in the past used gear drives. I refer to the Strutter and Tommy. Both used the Himax motors that were drop in replacements for the GWS drives that were originally designed for these birds. I really enjoyed the way these models flew. When I started the Camel, I intended to use the same setup that I had in the Tommy. It was not crazy overpowered. So I went in to Motocalc to see what I had been flying on. And lo and behold, I was just a tad over 70 watts/lb.

Now I have only used outrunners in a couple of WWII birds that I have and both used a bell motor of this size and a 3s lipo. Here is where I messed up. WWII type fighter models fly best at around 100 watts/lb. So that was what I was familier with and what I was trying to acheive. I can see that I need to change my thinking a bit for the N17. I never intended to be disrespectful towards your design.

So let me see if I got it straight. If I use a 2s lipo and an 11x7 APC slofly prop I should be around 65 watts/lb. Does that sound like a better set up? When put it all together to take the pictures, I did notice that the 10x6 prop looked a little small. The N17 is quite a bit bigger than the Strutter and the Tommy and the Camel.


Completely Humbled
Jim

BTW, I was able to work out my hatch issue today. I cut the 1/32 ply and hinged it at the front using some Dubro small plastic hinges. The hinge is glued to the 1/32 ply and is retained to the front former with the same screws that hold the cowling on. It is then bent by hand to slide under a pin that is slid under the rear under carriage leg. Very simple and light I hope.
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