HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Jun 09, 2012, 09:43 PM
Webmaster & Newsletter SVSS
Dudley Dufort's Avatar
Rio Linda, CA
Joined Feb 2010
120 Posts
Discussion
June Contest Combined With SSC

Two days of consecutive winds have forced the cancellation or postponement of the June Club Contest.

Normally the contest would be rescheduled to the following Saturday but most of the contest directors, regular contestants and your humble scorekeeper will be in Montague participating in the Cross Country contest. That would make it tough (not impossible) to run a contest.

There are three options;

1) Hold the contest next Saturday with a skeleton crew to run it.

2) Cancel it completely.

3) Take the scores from Saturday's Summer Soaring Challenge and use those as the June contest. For this purpose, the raw scores of SVSS members only would used. You would essentially be flying two contest at once. The Saturday Summer Soaring Challenge against the masses and the June club contest against SVSS members. The June scoring would only use the SVSS member's scores.

What say ye lads?
Dudley Dufort is offline Find More Posts by Dudley Dufort
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jun 09, 2012, 10:43 PM
Always more to Xplore
SoaringDude's Avatar
near Sacramento, CA
Joined Aug 2010
813 Posts
Dudley, option 3 seems the fairest to me.

To stay in practice I plan to drive down to Visalia next Saturday and enter the CVRC monthly contest on Sunday June 17 (this month it's on the week following our normal contest date). It's a bit of a drive but they do great contests--almost as good as SVSS. (sorry Claude )

Chris B.
SoaringDude is online now Find More Posts by SoaringDude
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 09, 2012, 10:58 PM
Registered User
Carmichael, CA
Joined Oct 2006
5 Posts
Howshort the memory! May seem like sour grapes on our part, since we can't be there this year, but Option 3 seems to be precluded by the 2003, 2004, 2009, 2010, & 2011 Comp Policy item previously voted on by club members which states that Spring Fling/SSC scores are not to be used for season pts purposes. Not aware of any vote taken at any meeting this year that changes that item. N & J Nolte
NNolte is offline Find More Posts by NNolte
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 10, 2012, 09:41 AM
Webmaster & Newsletter SVSS
Dudley Dufort's Avatar
Rio Linda, CA
Joined Feb 2010
120 Posts
Neil, please don't misunderstand me here. I'm not campaigning for a change. I'd just like to ask a question. Is that OK.

For the edification for those of us with short memories and/or our new members, when this issue was discussed previously, what was the compelling reason opposing the use of Summer Soaring Challenge (aka Spring Fling) scores for the June contest.

I'm sure there was sound reasoning behind it. I simply don't recall what it was.

Thanks, Dudley
Dudley Dufort is offline Find More Posts by Dudley Dufort
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 10, 2012, 11:00 AM
Registered User
United States, CA, Folsom
Joined May 2009
10 Posts
Neil raises an interesting, but possibly not fatal point. As with Dudley, I cannot not recall the context of the vote regarding not using the scores from the Soaring Challenge. I doubt any of us were thinking we might have a blow out in June. My thought would be that we consider the issue during the next club meeting and vote on it. I do not recall in our bylaws any provision about "ex post facto" votes. Who knows, this might provide an impetus to get more people to sign up for the Soaring Challenge, if they think it might affect the monthly scores. Seems like the simple way to deal with it. Or we could do a make up in July or August. My thoughts. Mike
Mike Myers is offline Find More Posts by Mike Myers
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 10, 2012, 05:14 PM
Registered User
jtlsf5's Avatar
United States, CA, Folsom
Joined Jul 2007
2,553 Posts
My memory, though it may be faulty, was that the policy was that the club could not forego the June contest and simply use the Spring Fling scores in lieu of holding the June contest. I don't believe the possibility of the regularly scheduled date being not flyable came into the discussion.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, as if my recollection is correct, the use of one day of the Summer Challenge to fulfill a cancelled June contest is a feasible option. There was no intent to not hold the contest, weather intervened. The next potential date (June 16) was held out of contention due to the significant number of club members that will be out of town supporting the XC event in Montague. Thus, it seems like the only viable option is to use a SC day to fulfill the contest, or we lose this month completely from the club series.

JT
jtlsf5 is offline Find More Posts by jtlsf5
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 10, 2012, 07:16 PM
Registered User
Carmichael, CA
Joined Oct 2006
5 Posts
The language excluding using an SF/SSC day's scores came about years ago because, after that month's contest had to be canceled, it was proposed the first time after the cut-off date to register for the SF. Many club members had opted to work rather than enter the SF, so the concensus was it would have been unfair to then give a season pts advantage to those who had entered before the deadline. Follow-on discussions produced sufficient continuing member sentiment about the work vs enter-&-work issue at the SF/SSC that it was codified in our Comp Policy to exclude it being done - yet it continues to be suggested every time we have an SSC related impacted monthly contest.

While the Comp Policy also stipulates any make-up is to be the following Saturday, we've made accomodations in the past for events such as Montague & Visalia where many of our members are participating & representing SVSS. The first option this month was that we we were to hold the make-up on Sunday, so that too, really wasn't in line with our Comp Policy, but decided toward the end of accommodating the greatest # of our usual competitors. Seems to me that this is a case where we've got a lot of key people headed for Montague (CD, scorekeeper, Comp VP, etc) so my vote is to drop the June contest entirely & not impact those going to Montague. N
NNolte is offline Find More Posts by NNolte
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2012, 01:11 AM
Registered User
United States, CA, Novato
Joined Jun 2008
18 Posts
June contest

Aside from the cross country contest and the Visalia contest we will have some members working at our Summer Challenge and not flying when they would otherwise be flying in a regular contest. Seems that cancelling the June contest would be a wise decision.
Mike Clancy
mikelsfv is offline Find More Posts by mikelsfv
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2012, 09:15 AM
Webmaster & Newsletter SVSS
Dudley Dufort's Avatar
Rio Linda, CA
Joined Feb 2010
120 Posts
Let me begin by saying I'm not necessarily in favor of combining contests. But I AM in favor of flexibility.

In the argument against combining contests, there seems to be an underlying concern that a member would either work OR fly the SSC. Historically, every member who has flown the SSC has also pitched in to help run the contest. It would appear that somewhere along the line, we've evolved and learned how to walk and chew gum at the same time. If ya really stop and think about it, for most of us, working and flying still allows us time to sit around and chat. The only guys pressed for time are those who enter two classes and time for someone who has also entered two classes. They kinda keep hoppin'.

Another concern appears to be money. A member might not want to pay $50 to enter SSC, when a $10 entry fee is all that's required for the June club contest. That argument is dashed when you compare the names on the Year to Date scores and the Pilots list for SSC. There you'll see that all our regular contestants (with a few understandable exceptions) have entered the SSC. Having two contests in June actually costs more. A guy will pay $60 (10 + 50) to fly the June contest and SSC when he'd only pay $50 if the two contest were combined.

As long as we're on the subject of money, we need to work backward from a objective here. We need to stop treating SVSS as if it were the IRS. It pains me to see guys going out of their way to "short-sheet" SVSS. It's not a crime to be generous toward your club. The things we want to do and need to do, to keep our field a premier flying site, require money. The Summer Soaring Challenge is the club's major source of revenue. More entries generate more income to the club. It's as simple as that. Every year each and every one of us needs to think in terms of what can be done to encourage more entries in The Summer Soaring Challenge. Even if that means working and flying.

What about planning? I heard somewhere that the only constant in life is change. Although we attempt to schedule our contests and events well in advance, we're at the mercy of Mother Nature and we need to be flexible. If the June club contest were combined with SSC, we would have only one June contest to juggle in our lives, not two.

Personally, I prefer two distinct contests. I thoroughly enjoy the time spent with my fellow club members in pursuit of our passion. But let's no preclude our ability to combine the contest when the need arises.
Dudley Dufort is offline Find More Posts by Dudley Dufort
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2012, 10:42 AM
NCSS / SVSS Flyer
United States, CA, Elk Grove
Joined May 2005
143 Posts
June Contest

I do think that perhaps it's about time to review the scheduling formula for contests and makeups. It's been quite some time and we should look at new options. Any revisions that are voted into policy are OK by me. I do however think until the rules for makeups are revised, we should be following the current rules. I think the current rules were voted in as a means for flyers to have a set formula to set their calendars by. I think it was an attempt to be fair to all the members. Being as the yearly standings and the contests themselves are a set of rules created to provide a fair and impartial playing field, I think that we should follow the rules until the rules are modified. Sorry about that sounding a bit stiff and inflexible, but I say again I am agreeable to having the discussion at the next Club Meeting, say Friday the 22nd of June at the set up day. Should be a large gathering of members present.

I don't know if anyone has some similar memories of years passed, but when I was a "young lion" coming up in the club many years ago, I might look at the schedule and say to myself "gee there might be some top dogs off at the IRS , the Fresno Classic, Visalia, ISR, or Montegue". I might think hmmmm, this could be a chance for me to pick up a few spots on the yearly standings or have a slightly better chance of a top finish at the club contest. I hope it doesn't sound like I relished other flyers schedule conflicts, but over the course of a year we all have them. I guess I might be a little flattered if I overheard someone say," hey Woodbob is gonna be gone next Saturday and I might just have a better chance at some hardware".

One more thought for my 2 cents worth. Usually when the necessity arises, our club members step up and pitch in like no other group I've ever been associated with. If the CD can't make the rescheduled club contest, I'm sure someone would step up. If Dud is in Montegue flying X/C with the world famous Dust Devils Cross Country Flying Team, it provides an opportunity for someone to step up and give scorekeeping a shot. It may mean everyone calculate their own rounds and add them up before turning in their cards, I don't know, but one thing is for sure, SVSS members have my confidence that they will step up.

Woodbob
SlopeRC is offline Find More Posts by SlopeRC
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2012, 11:23 AM
Registered User
TrekBiker's Avatar
United States, CA, Granite Bay
Joined Mar 2004
545 Posts
I agree with Dudley that participation in the SSC should be a club priority. I've never understood why every year there are fewer SVSS members flying in the SSC/SF than in the average monthly TD contest. I think enough club members step up to help run the SSC to allow everyone to fly as well.

Steve
TrekBiker is offline Find More Posts by TrekBiker
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2012, 11:56 AM
Always more to Xplore
SoaringDude's Avatar
near Sacramento, CA
Joined Aug 2010
813 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlopeRC View Post
...Sorry about that sounding a bit stiff and inflexible...
Well, actually, it is inflexible when all it would take is a simple polling of TD contest-partaking members.

I know we all (mostly ) just want to fly and have fun. It's frustrating to see such inertia on such a simple matter. We are a hobby club, not a corporation. Adapting to exceptions should be easy.

Here' why I think we should let one of the SSC days double as our June contest: because it would add excitement and meaning for those who really enjoy the annual competition aspect of our monthly contests. That's it, no more no less!

Chris B.
SoaringDude is online now Find More Posts by SoaringDude
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2012, 01:52 PM
Martin
USA, CA, Piedmont
Joined May 2005
308 Posts
We have this issue covered in the Club contest rules. The June contrst moves to the next Saturday which would be 6/16. It's unfortunate that there will be pilots missing because of Montague, however that is how SVSS set up its contest rules to cover such situations and we should follow our own rules rather than trying to abridge what is in place. We can discuss making changes to the Club Contest rules on 6/22, but the contest should be held 6/16.
I am very much against combining the June Contest with the SSC for all the reasons mentioned.
Personally I have a daughter getting married on 6/16 so I will miss both Montague and the club contest.
Mart
mrfski is offline Find More Posts by mrfski
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2012, 02:01 PM
Registered User
Joined Oct 2005
25 Posts
My 2 cents (not adjusted for inflation)

My initial thoughts were to either cancel a makeup date or use a day from the SSC. The more I thought about It, using a day of the SSC would bring up its own set of issues (which day - Saturday is a pretty long contest for a monthly contest?, what about the folks that didn't plan for that date - already busy that day?, do we just charge the regular $10 for the one day?, etc., etc.?). I believe we already currently have a plan on the books that call for this contest (twice cancelled) to become a "non-contest". What I don't remember is if it is that the final year totals will be one contest less or will June be considered one of each pilot's throwaways? For me, let's just have one less contest for 2012.

Now it is probably 3 cents worth!

RonK
rcronk is offline Find More Posts by rcronk
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2012, 02:06 PM
Good for what ALES you
awilmunder's Avatar
United States, CA, Novato
Joined Jan 2009
449 Posts
Would a 3-round contest in the afternoon on the Friday before SSC make sense or does it conflict too much with the event preparations? Equipment should be set up. New members will be there for lunch. Visitors are welcome to join in.
awilmunder is offline Find More Posts by awilmunder
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Contest 3rd Annual Cal Challenge F3K Contest - June 2&3 2012 - Visalia, CA dlgdude Hand Launch 230 May 07, 2014 01:06 PM
Contest Eastern Soarning League TD contest at LISF June 23 and 24 2012 aeajr Sailplane Talk 28 Jun 28, 2012 02:03 PM
Discussion SPA Contest coming to Andersonville, GA - Hodges June 23rd & 24th eness76 Classic Pattern Flying 0 May 22, 2012 11:33 AM
Contest Mid-America Combat Championsip - SSC June 24, 2006 spadhunter Combat Fuel Planes 0 May 17, 2006 11:09 PM