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Old Jun 06, 2012, 08:42 PM
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What to Get For Your (or your kids') Very 1st Parkflyer, IMO (download PDF in Post 1)

I love airplanes, and I want to share this love with more people. Getting into RC can be expensive and complicated, but I hope to reduce both the cost and the complication by helping more people get into RC.

I'm not affiliated with any of the links/companies I recommend. I just love RC.
To the skeptics: If you don't believe me, please *open your eyes* and look at all of the many links in the documents I have posted, and you'll see many different companies and sources, including even TowerHobbies and RadioShack just to name a couple.

Please click link directly below to download the PDF to learn more and share with others (I've put it on a free Google Sites website for easy updating). Once you get to the website, click the link above the PDF and go to File --> Download.

https://sites.google.com/site/electricrcaircraftguru/
Note: I will someday post another document which contains more "traditional," expensive name-brand airplanes from places like TowerHobbies, Parkzone (HorizonHobby), etc, but just haven't been able to get to it yet. However, this plane document isn't even my focus anyway, as distributing the ebook below (if there is even any interest from people in seeing it) is my primary intent.


...So, here is the primary document I've been working on, which I aspire to be an informational ebook about some of the more obscure details of RC aircraft which can be difficult to come by. It also has a download link directly above the PDF once you go to the website:

https://sites.google.com/site/electr...raftguru/doc-2

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Old Jun 07, 2012, 12:17 PM
buyer of the farm
United States, FL, DeLand
Joined Mar 2009
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I couldn't disagree more. When you break the plane (beginners ALWAYS break the plane) how do you order parts to fix it? A beginner won't know to change the lousy speed control, tweak the hinges and replace the servos that everyone with a Bixler complains about.

But the worst part is if you break something. So you need a new servo. What do you buy? You and I know. The beginner will be completely at sea.

A MUCH better pick if you want that design would be to buy a Multiplex Easy Star or even better a Multiplex Easy Star II. With both you get a plane with a company that stands behind the plane, offering meaningful warranties. Every single piece of the plane can be purchased from the manufacturer so no crash is unrecoverable.

Your unassisted newbie has enough to worry about. He doesn't have to carry the burden of having an unfixable aircraft. He can spend slightly more and have a Multiplex Easy Star instead of a generic Chinese plane with third rate components, several of which need to be changed out even before the first flight. And the Bixler has no support at all. Get a bad one and the company suddenly can't speak English. If you can get it replaced, you are responsible for shipping the bad one back to China. What are the odds that they will admit receiving it? Something less than zero.

The Bixler is a great choice for you and I, people who know their way around an airframe, have built planes from scratch, have repaired a plane before and can spot a defect in an RTF plane. An unassisted newbie knows none of that and a Bixler will assist him in finding a new hobby only.
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Old Jun 07, 2012, 04:47 PM
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an unassisted newbie is a difficult predicament in which to be. The part I underemphasized is that a beginner will really struggle to be successful if unassisted. If you are a newbie, the secret is to get someone to help you. In the document I have a link to help you find a local club near you. Contact a local club and get help from someone. Have them look over the plane, help you adjust the control surfaces and do proper control and control throw checks, and then even put you on a buddy box. A few weekends on a buddy box with one of these planes and you will be good to go. The reason I stand behind these planes so much is because they are excellent prices for the quality, and with a little help from an experienced guy, you get a $300 airplane for $100. I'd really like to get more kids into this hobby, and kids can't afford $300+ in most cases. You are right about help though--it can never be underestimated.
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Old Jun 07, 2012, 05:03 PM
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PS. Item 10 in my pdf lists the servos they would need to replace any bad servos. and I have used many of these (HXT900) servos and not had a single one dead yet. Great servos.
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Old Jul 25, 2012, 06:11 PM
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Update:
I just got my website up with this document: https://sites.google.com/site/electricrcaircraftguru/
And here is the direct link to what I have so far on my 80+ RC ebook document: https://sites.google.com/site/electr...raftguru/doc-2
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Old Jul 25, 2012, 07:24 PM
buyer of the farm
United States, FL, DeLand
Joined Mar 2009
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Parkzone Radian
Hobby Zone Champ
Hobby Zone Super Cub
Multiplex Easy Star II

All vastly superior to the Bixler, giving the new flier the best chance for success by ensuring that his plane WILL fly perfectly right out of the box, has great customer warranty service and a complete inventory of replacement parts available which are a perfect replacement for the original equipment.

None of them needs a single modification in order to be flown, where the Bixler needs a hatful of mods before it is airworthy at all. The Bixler for a newbie without close ties to an expert or three is a ticket to weaving as their next hobby. It's a very bad move and a waste of money.

Saving money is accomplishing what you want for less. If you spend less than what you need to to succeed, you have not saved anything, have you? You've lost your investment and you've lost a future in what would have been a great hobby for a few dollars more.

Bixers and other Hobby King planes are for experienced aeromodelers, not beginners, no matter how easy they are to fly once rendered flyable. A much better plane than the Bixler would be the AXN Floater Jet, which, unlike the Bixler, actually is flyable as received. But no replacement parts, no warranty. It too is less than optimal for a beginner who needs the support a few extra dollars will buy him. If you are in the newspaper business it is inappropriate to save money by not printing any newspapers, isn't it? Is scuba diving cheaper if you don't buy air tanks? You have to buy what you need to succeed. Do it and enjoy many years of a fascinating and rewarding hobby.

Or follow the Pied Piper to the predictable rewards of trying to get something for nothing. Except that you still pay something. And likely will be left with nothing: nothing but frustration. Success without the means to attain it requires a very caring and involved mentor, willing to spend a lot of time with you. Those people are rare.
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Last edited by Rockin Robbins; Jul 25, 2012 at 08:03 PM.
Old Jul 25, 2012, 10:15 PM
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All well-said. I respect your opinion. I am willing to help whoever succeed, and I do agree someone always needs an experienced helper to get started. I am looking out of the pocket book, and if someone has the money and does not want to have, or cannot find a close helper to mentor them as they get started, I do not disagree with your opinion. My list certainly isn't all-inclusive either, and the AXN Floater Jet I would also recommend.---Maybe I'll even change it in the paper....
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 02:35 AM
buyer of the farm
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What could you possibly hope to accomplish as Pied Piper that AEAJR has not already done in vastly better quality from a truly expert point of view? Why, cult-like, your first move is to cut the rubes from the sheepfold and take them off to a private website to graze on your unique brand of wisdom. It finds itself in opposition to the best practices of the hobby and has nothing to show advantage.

What is the aim when we are working with a beginner? It is for him to succeed in learning to fly and have fun. Can he do that while building a plane, choosing ESC, motor, battery (with no concrete guidelines on your site at all! All you have is general warm and fuzzy info completely useless in selecting an appropriate system. It appears authorative and contains less than a critical payload.

Just as you must spend what you need to in order to have the best chance of success, you much teach as much as you need to in order for your student to have success. With impressive attention to details of no interest to the beginner, you ignore all his real needs! You haven't lured him off to a happy pasture, that's a slaughterhouse on the other side of the fence!

Much, much better to read AEAJR's Six Keys to Success for New Pilots and Chris F's How to Choose a Power System. You see these are not false Messiah's seeking to lead the flock away to a secret enclave of hidden information that is the exclusive "true vision" of the "Savior." These are tried and true, in the open for all to benefit from, comment on and criticize if necessary, right here on RC Groups. This Messiah complex just sets off my spider senses.

Especially in this case I see an outwardly impressive compilation of information. The necessary is not there. Uninteresting trivia and too advanced material relating to scratch building abounds.

New guys have enough problems. They deserve to have only one problem: learning to fly! They don't need to worry about whether their plane will fly, they deserve better. They don't need to worry about picking out ESCs, that is the job of the decent quality plane manufacturer. New guys deserve to be able to dispense with all the bullschnitzel that keeps them from success and to concentrate with a single purpose of will on the already difficult business of learning to fly, with a true Ready to Fly plane, everything necessary to fly being in the box, the quality being so good that not one modification is necessary, that is backed by a basically no questions asked guarantee of success and which has a complete inventory of replacement parts available at reasonable prices, every one of which is a perfect replacement for the original equipment in the plane. And that plane must have a track record of successfully teaching thousands of people to fly. THEN we will keep the newbies. THEN they will have success. Until then we're just digging holes for ourselves.

That's my opinion, but I'm right!
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Last edited by Rockin Robbins; Jul 27, 2012 at 09:39 AM.
Old Jul 26, 2012, 10:08 AM
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While I tend to agree with Rockin Robbins on this, I think panther's intent is commendable. However, the part about sending rank newbies to vendors that have virtually no customer service is doing them a great disservice. The total newbie experience when it comes to RC flight is one that should be bereft of frustration. Sending newbs to places like Hobby King, Banana Hobby and sometimes NitroPlanes can exacerbate their frustration, not enhance their success. Most of us here on these forums always direct the rank newbie to planes like the Hobbyzone Champ, Super Cub, or Firebird Stratos, Flyzone Sensei, etc., because they are proven platforms and can usually guarantee a successful RC flight experience; not to mention the great customer service that is part of companies like Horizon Hobby and Hobbico (Tower Hobbies). I think inclusion of these and other great RTF/ARF models would tend to make your document more helpful to the potential new RC fliers out there. Unless of course, the products you mentioned are in some way connected with an enterprise you are attempting to establish.
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by chucksolo69 View Post
Sending newbs to places like Hobby King, Banana Hobby and sometimes NitroPlanes can exacerbate their frustration, not enhance their success.
Agreed. From my personal experience, HK's customer service just isn't there. I sent many emails with questions and none were answered. Prices seem good, but I can't seem to find anything I want in the USA warehouse, it's always International....which means a very high shipping fee. You can't combine orders from the different warehouses, and buying multiple items to justify the shipping fees does not work....the fees ramp up as items are added.

HeadsUpRC customer service is 2nd to none. Those guys take care of their customers...they answer emails on the same day and they stand by their products. Actions speak louder than words and these guys live by that adage. Hard to beat a 2$ shipping fee...unless it's free.
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Old Jul 28, 2012, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by chucksolo69 View Post
I think inclusion of these and other great RTF/ARF models would tend to make your document more helpful to the potential new RC fliers out there. Unless of course, the products you mentioned are in some way connected with an enterprise you are attempting to establish.
Chuck, I agree. I should include those airplanes. Please see my post here and you will see where I am coming from and why I originally did not. However, I do have plans to include them now, and will some time be working on a subsequent list of good beginner airplanes with good customer support. Here is the post I am referring to: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...3#post22289864.

And again, no, I am establishing no enterprise and in no way related to any RC website or company whatsoever. I know it's long, but please take the time to read my above post. Thank you.
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Old Jul 28, 2012, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by whowhatwhere View Post
You can't combine orders from the different warehouses, and buying multiple items to justify the shipping fees does not work....the fees ramp up as items are added.......

Hard to beat a 2$ shipping fee...unless it's free.
In my opinion, for my own orders, I still can definitely justify HobbyKing's shipping fee, and if you read the link in my previous post (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...3#post22289864) I think it will give you some good insight too. Also, this post may help as well: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...3#post22290122. My goal is not to make you agree with me. If you have the money, save the time and buy from your other sites. They are all good. If you read my above posts though, I believe you will at least see why I, and others like me, like HobbyKing.

Also, the fact that shipping fees correspondingly increase with larger orders is, to me, a good thing because look at this positive aspect: low-weight items have shipping as low as $2.99, drastically saving you money. For example: from the website you referenced above, 1 JST connector is $0.95 (http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...d--dsh-/Detail). Add shipping and you get $11.50 for 10 of them (assuming you use these all the time and want 10.). However, from Hobbyking, a pack of 10 costs $1.48. Add $3 shipping and you get 10 of them for $4.48. For me, that savings of $7.02 is worth it. This is just one example, but I still find great savings with them.

Again, here is another price example, including an item with $36.54 shipping from HobbyKing, where you still spend about 1/2 as much on HobbyKing's website (even WITH their high shipping) for a comparable item, than elsewhere: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...3#post22290122.

I personally don't mind waiting weeks for shipping and having to have the expertise to deal with a few minor flaws in a plane here and there. If you or others have the extra money, and want the better customer service, by all means don't order from HobbyKing. All I'm saying is that myself, and many kids I help get into RC, don't have the money, so we deal with the slow shipping (and other inconveniences, annoyances, poor customer service, or whathaveyou) and save the bucks$$.

To each his own. I am only presenting one perspective, and I am not saying my opinion is better than anyone else's, but it works for me. I appreciate other perspectives, views, and pocket-book sizes, because it keeps the RC market competitive, growing, and strong, and allows for local hobby shops to exist, which is essential I think to keeping this hobby alive and available!

There are three things in balance in virtually all purchases in life. They are 1) Price, 2) Quality, 3) Time (or Service, ex: Customer Service). Choose any 2 of those 3, or balance them as you personally see fit.

Thanks for reading.
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Old Jul 28, 2012, 06:37 PM
CA...gimme the CA...
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493 Posts
You are correct, bro.

How about we say that no one site has the best deal on every item. As as responsible consumer one must invest time and search for the best deal.

However, customer service is very important, at least for me.

Hey let's all go fly.

Peace....
Ric out.
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Old Jul 28, 2012, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by whowhatwhere View Post
How about we say that no one site has the best deal on every item. As as responsible consumer one must invest time and search for the best deal.

However, customer service is very important, at least for me.

Hey let's all go fly.

Peace....
Ric out.
Absolutely to it all!!! To each his own! Peace all around. You said it perfectly, so ditto on the "let's go fly"!
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Old Sep 09, 2012, 02:42 AM
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I just joined this site and have only read 2 threads and both have someone talking down to someone else for trying to help. Sure hope everyone on here isn't like this
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