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Old Feb 05, 2013, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by T J Gilbert View Post
It is not wise to extend battery to ESC wires.
A much better solution is to extend ESC to motor wires.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=952523
Thanks a lot TJ for destroying my nice plans .....

Damn, you are the Wikipedia of rcgroups.
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 09:19 AM
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United Arab Emirates, Dubai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T J Gilbert View Post
It is not wise to extend battery to ESC wires.
A much better solution is to extend ESC to motor wires.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=952523
That's what I've been told and did.

Quote:
I agree that 2 ESC tied like this seems a bit risky...
I did some research on that before putting it all together. Couldn't find a reason not to do this but I will consider moving them... I saw quite a few Y6's with ESC's mounted like that - didn't see anyone reporting problems with it.

Quote:
I still think you might have the motor configuration and wiring confused.
Look at the attached Naza Manual page...
I'm familiar with the overall Y6 concept - although this is first one I'm building on my own, I built a smaller one with a friend couple of months ago (it's working nicely). Everything is set up as you described it. The top motors, are turning CCW, bottom ones CW and all are attached to proper slots in NAZA, in accordance with the manual (will check again..). The bottom props are facing upwards, generating lift as they should.

Quote:
It's definitely bad practice to have the signal cables from the RX to the Naza right next to (touching?) a pair of ESCs. ESCs (and the motor leads coming from them) emit all sorts of RF, which the leads can potentially pick up.
I know it looks a bit messy int the photo but I cleaned it up a bit since. I'm thinking of isolating the rx wires with copper tape just to make sure they don't suffer from interference. Thanks.

I still think that this is more controller related since it seems to be working just fine in MAN mode - so the ESC's are doing what they should (?) .

Anyway, back to the bench. Thanks guys.
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 09:31 AM
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Who Me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tritan View Post
Thanks a lot TJ for destroying my nice plans .....

Damn, you are the Wikipedia of rcgroups.
No, I've just been doing this stuff for a long time.
Electric powered flight is my major RC interest.
And I've been blessed with a keen desire to learn and a slightly above average memory....

And some honed searching skills help too...
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Last edited by T J Gilbert; Feb 05, 2013 at 10:10 AM. Reason: Comments...
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 11:42 AM
Seattle, WA - USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tritan View Post
Yes, thats what I was thinking also.

Instead of 2x3 AC wires there will be 2x wires for DC and the 2x light weight signal cables from the ESC, running in a CF tube.Having the ESC's on each side of the motors also gives more space inside the frame plates.

Question is, what size of DC wires(one plus & one minus) for 2 motors running 4S and max 25A each?

I havent done this before as I have had the ESC's close to the frame plates having no interference at all with my Naza+GPS ....
What TJ said...
Also, braid the three motor wires, don't let them hang loose. The ESC's are the dirtiest RF producers we work with (OK, maybe a GoPro is worse ) so you should keep them as far away from everything else as you can without extending the battery wires. I wouldn't stack them because of the noise Bill mentions but also because they need airflow. I would suggest you put them on the sides of the booms so they both get the same airflow. Lastly, move your receiver so that the antennas are pointed down, below the bottom plate and the wires are close to 90 degrees to one another (an upside down "V").
-mark
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_q View Post
Lastly, move your receiver so that the antennas are pointed down, below the bottom plate and the wires are close to 90 degrees to one another (an upside down "V").
-mark
As I mentioned, the photo was taken early on the bench. The rx was moved to the side and is pointing antennas down. I added some copper tape to rx wires and all wires close to naza and rx.

Quote:
Also, braid the three motor wires, don't let them hang loose. The ESC's are the dirtiest RF producers we work with (OK, maybe a GoPro is worse ) so you should keep them as far away from everything else as you can without extending the battery wires.
The wires (I'm assuming you mean ESC -> motor ones) are zip tied to the bottom plate. They don't have any contact with the rx, naza or any of the wires.

Right, seems that moving the esc's is inevitable.Major rework ahead of me. Thanks for your help. of course, more ideas will be appreciated !
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 01:15 PM
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Hi has any one noticed a link between naza gains and quad size as the frame gets bigger do they go up or down I've only one frame and wondered if those put there with multiple frames had seen a link or is it really dependant totally on build and components
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuelson View Post
Hi has any one noticed a link between naza gains and quad size as the frame gets bigger do they go up or down I've only one frame and wondered if those put there with multiple frames had seen a link or is it really dependant totally on build and components
Larger frames generally require higher gains.
See attached Naza Manual page...

BTW read the manual...
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 06:02 PM
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just an update to the counter acting Naza.

As a re-cap I have two nazas and on multiple frames at un specified times they will fight my inputs to the point that a full forward stick will equal no forward movement... as in the helicotper has completely lost level.

some thought maybe temperature was to blame but I put that to bed. I flew in very cold weather and tried to create the same result but could not.

poor vibration rejection I feel is to blame.. if the naza sees just the wrong frequency of vibes it loses level.

how to see if your machine will do it?

1) fly forwared as fast as you can for about 20m or as far as you can
2) pull full stick back until the quad or hex etc stops
3) again full stick forward and then let go.

this maneuver should be done as fast as possible

some variations of the above will also do it but essentially you can really piss off the controller doing this... I am now making it a practice that before I fly anywhere I do this test and if it passes then go fly... if not the DO NOT FLY becuase wind will simulate the above scenario very well and you will crash.

Steve
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 06:20 PM
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@saabguyspg

1) fly forwared as fast as you can for about 20m or as far as you can
2) pull full stick back until the quad or hex etc stops
3) again full stick forward and then let go.

this maneuver should be done as fast as possible


Wouldn't you say that this maneuver is really something that the Naza was not intended to do?
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 08:45 PM
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this should be handleable by any flight control.

If you do this test it is VERY likely your naza will pass.... however on occasion for some reason the naza fails this test.

If the naza fails this test on that day and you just go fly nice and slow in a tiny bit of wind... you will lose control and crash.

the maneuver I came up with is intended to see if you have this issue before flying higher up. It was born from the garbage behaviour naza exibits sometimes under distress

What I am saying is last time this happened to me it was gentle winds however the naza slowly lost level and I had to do an emergency landing. I then did the above test right after and it failed miserably so now I use that test as a gauge to see if it's going to crap the bed before I fly more than 10 feet off the ground.

In FFF I have had this issue on multiple frames too in both manual and atti mode.

It should not lost level in manual mode ever because the acc is out of the control loop.... but it does... this makes me think they are still using the acc in manual mode but at a greatly reduced rate.

My last tests in high winds, with three extra batteries on board the naza passed this test with flying colors... but the next time I plug it in there may be a different story.

What it comes down to is that I belive naza has pretty poor vibration rejection at very certain frequencies... if you happen to get those frequencies you are done for.

Steve
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 08:59 PM
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@saabguyspg

I remember your previous posts about anomalies that we couldn't figure out.
I certainly agree that at times the Naza FC does strange things.
I guess you've just documented another unusual trait , how to test for it, and what its possible cause may be.
The code and algorithms in Naza's firmware are human contrivances that can probably be further refined.
Perhaps your observations will help steer the Naza technicians and engineers closer to perfection.
Thanks!
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Old Feb 06, 2013, 12:02 AM
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I would love that to be the case but they don't tend to listen

I pointed this out long ago... oh well I digress.

Naza is a great controller... however it is not anywhere near 100% reliable... either is WKM for that matter... I have two of them as well and they too have lost level on me.

I am working with a MR FC designer right now that understands the importance of vibration rejection... so far we can't kill it.... and belive me we have tried...

I am not at liberty to say who but it will be out in a few months I imagine... no gps etc though just a darn good controller for quads first... hexa and octo later.

Steve
ps I am not invoved with this company at all.. just a beta tester.
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Old Feb 06, 2013, 02:26 AM
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So right. How embarrassing

Note to self: read stuff with more care.

Quote:
Originally Posted by topgearuk View Post
You already have the latest software installed! 1.8v is the Assistant software, 2.02v is the Firmware in the NAZA
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Old Feb 06, 2013, 02:38 AM
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Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Dec 2012
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F450 4S Battery Question

I am interested to know what the 4s battery size of choice is for F450 pilots? I've been flying 3s 2250's up until now, but would like to try 4s (and maybe 8" props . Not concerned about brand so much, more what people have found a good weight/capacity compromise? I have a Zippy compact 3700 4s and a RMRC 3300 4s for another quad, but they seem pretty big on the the 450?

Cheers

J
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Old Feb 06, 2013, 03:30 AM
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14mins flight time on a stock F450+9" graupners with a 4S-2800mAh, putting 2500mAh back into it.
-2.5 minutes with a GoPro2 (200gr)+light vTX (180gr).

Some people here are good are crunching numbers in spreadsheets, they could tell us, but to me above 4000mAh the extra weight REALLY start to cancel the extra mAh.
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