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Old Nov 16, 2012, 01:42 PM
DJI and Empire Support
T J Gilbert's Avatar
United States, MS, Ridgeland
Joined Feb 2009
4,446 Posts
Yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by skypup View Post
Thanks. So it IS ok to set up in heli mod vs acro (airplane mode)? I thought that all trims needed to be set to 0 and everything programmed by the CU?
Don't be confused by Naza = no trims. That refers to stick trims, not switch subtrims.
I've have never flown my Naza in Acro Mode.
But the Heli Mode pitch curves have nothing to do with a collective.
They are straight lines that set the FM on the U channel.
Check my blog...

CU? (translate please)
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Last edited by T J Gilbert; Nov 16, 2012 at 02:07 PM. Reason: Trying to understand your post. I think my answers match your questions now...
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 02:12 PM
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u2builder's Avatar
USA, NH, Alstead
Joined Oct 2007
4,956 Posts
Hoisted by my own Petard

Quote:
I've made it a "rule" for myself. I am also careful to postion "home" a decent distance from obstacles.
Roger. Check that.

So I went out in the fading dull bleak NH cold to do an FPV flight with my quad.

I chose a spot "I thought" was away from obstacles, and as is my usually practice, took off and hovered while I put my goggles on. Well distance is hard to judge in my narrow field and I must have drifted backwards or something while I was getting the goggles on and focused, and I was soon looking a tree branches and then I observed my "fall from grace" from about 20 feet up and about 50 feet away. BTW the motors stopped! IOC worked.

I guess I didn't set up for takeoff quite as far from obstacles as I should have.

Well my quad was now a three legger, Funny thing was I couldn't find the other leg or the motor. It had broken off near the frame but was missing. I stared up into the tree for a while. I discovered it some time later sticking out of the dirt. The prop was completely invisible.

The motor was caked in wet dirt. I blew it out with the air compressor but when I got back to the shop I figured I'd give it a bath in isopropyl alcohol. This was a very good idea. A LOT of dirt came out. I gave it about five baths, tapping it against the side of the Cool Whip container, till no more dirt came out.

Then I put on a new leg and prop and epoxied on the GPS protector that had broken off at the base. Glad I invested in that.

I took it out for a flight. Seems to be all good.

I have to give that DJI airframe a lot of credit. This was a deadfall from 20 feet or maybe more and all it seems to have "cost" me is an arm and about 30 minutes of repair.

Anyway, next time I'll get a few more feet from those trees and I should probably also head out in a different direction. It's a learning experience. I was lucky this time.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 02:25 PM
DJI and Empire Support
T J Gilbert's Avatar
United States, MS, Ridgeland
Joined Feb 2009
4,446 Posts
Crashes

I've had about 5 Naza crashes.
3 were close to the ground, and all that was broken (if anything) was a prop.
2 were from 50+ feet up.
The plates and arms were all that suffered damage.
And I expected total losses.
The Naza, ESCs, motors, GPS, Lipo, and receiver survived.
I have one ESC that has a cut in its heat shrink and one motor that vibrates a little more than I like, so they became "working spares" that I have not had to put back into service, but will repair if necessary.
The DJI stuff is tough!
Particularly if Naza is in between the plates, and GPS is flush mounted and not on a stalk.
What else can I say about why I stick with this stuff?
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 02:59 PM
ehx
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Northern Minnesota
Joined Oct 2001
440 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_q View Post
My point was/is about shutting off the transmitter and thus removing all direct control as a means to fly home. I think I was fairly respectful in my write up but obviously not clear enough.

"In a nutshell, when you turn off your transmitter, you are endangering yourself, the people who maybe nearby and the very hobby we all enjoy so much. Will your quad, while flying in RTH mode be the one which falls out of the sky and causes a severe injury to a friend , neighbor or young child? Will you tell them it wasn't your fault because you were not in control of your aircraft? "
Really?

Shutting the transmitter off is a dangerous thing to do when testing failsafe? What are the odds that it won't come back on? Extremely small I'd say.

Based on your comment it seems you are assuming there are people near by. So testing failsafe with people near by without turning off the transmitter is OK? I'm sure you don't mean that. The point is that having people near by is a far, far greater risk than turning a transmitter off. Sure, 2.4GHz systems may have a couple second delay before they come back up, but if a couple seconds matters I'd say you haven't picked the appropriate place to test failsafe.

Yes, you could argue that attenuating the transmitter signal is better than turning it off, but this is nowhere near the largest risk factor.

Autopilots are scarey to a lot of people. What if they fly off by themselves? Yes, this does and will continue to happen. But remember that non-autopilot RC craft - primarily fixed-wing - also occasionally fly off by themselves. Is one worse than the other? It depends entirely on the exact situation. What if the pilot of a gaint-scale fixed-wing craft looses control and it flies off a mile and crashes into a car driving down the road which then crashes into another vehicle killing four people? Easy to imagine, not at all likely to happen.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 06:36 PM
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bill34207's Avatar
Bradenton, Florida
Joined Aug 2007
6,016 Posts
IOC causes slow rotation & drift in GPS hover?

I got one for the gurus and hoping somebody will tell me what I did wrong..
I finally plugged in the lead and turned on IOC a couple of nights ago and got a chance to test it today. I did set it up in assistant, adjusted endpoints so all fell where they are supposed to and enabled it there.

Lifting off in GPS mode with IOC turned off via the radio (slow green flash on MU) it would not go into a steady hover. It wanted to slowly rotate to the right and drift a bit as well. So, I landed and tried re-calibrating the compass. No change in behavior. Still wanted to rotate clockwise and drift. I tried switching on IOC and it did function. If I pointed the quad at myself and pushed forward it would continue moving away and pulling the sticj back would bring it back to me. But it would not go into a steady hover.

So, brought it back indoors, unlugged the channel from Naza and Rx. Went back into assistant and turned IOC off. Went back out, re-calibrated the compass and tested again. It works just like it's supposed to except there's no IOC available now since it's been disconnected. Not a big deal that I don't have IOC but I'm still confused as to what I did wrong.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 06:54 PM
FPV ADDICT
Wirewolf903's Avatar
United States, TX, Austin
Joined Jan 2011
560 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bill34207 View Post
I got one for the gurus and hoping somebody will tell me what I did wrong..
I finally plugged in the lead and turned on IOC a couple of nights ago and got a chance to test it today. I did set it up in assistant, adjusted endpoints so all fell where they are supposed to and enabled it there.

Lifting off in GPS mode with IOC turned off via the radio (slow green flash on MU) it would not go into a steady hover. It wanted to slowly rotate to the right and drift a bit as well. So, I landed and tried re-calibrating the compass. No change in behavior. Still wanted to rotate clockwise and drift. I tried switching on IOC and it did function. If I pointed the quad at myself and pushed forward it would continue moving away and pulling the sticj back would bring it back to me. But it would not go into a steady hover.

So, brought it back indoors, unlugged the channel from Naza and Rx. Went back into assistant and turned IOC off. Went back out, re-calibrated the compass and tested again. It works just like it's supposed to except there's no IOC available now since it's been disconnected. Not a big deal that I don't have IOC but I'm still confused as to what I did wrong.
There are some pretty good IOC set up and instructional videos on utube. Heres one
dji gps ioc info (12 min 35 sec)

The main issue everyone has with testing the IOC is they do it in the home set location which is too close for the IOC to work properly. Once calibrated fly about 50-100 ft away from your set home position and then try the IOC functions.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 07:04 PM
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T J Gilbert's Avatar
United States, MS, Ridgeland
Joined Feb 2009
4,446 Posts
HL requires 10m+

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill34207 View Post
I got one for the gurus and hoping somebody will tell me what I did wrong..
I finally plugged in the lead and turned on IOC a couple of nights ago and got a chance to test it today. I did set it up in assistant, adjusted endpoints so all fell where they are supposed to and enabled it there.

Lifting off in GPS mode with IOC turned off via the radio (slow green flash on MU) it would not go into a steady hover. It wanted to slowly rotate to the right and drift a bit as well. So, I landed and tried re-calibrating the compass. No change in behavior. Still wanted to rotate clockwise and drift. I tried switching on IOC and it did function. If I pointed the quad at myself and pushed forward it would continue moving away and pulling the sticj back would bring it back to me. But it would not go into a steady hover.

So, brought it back indoors, unlugged the channel from Naza and Rx. Went back into assistant and turned IOC off. Went back out, re-calibrated the compass and tested again. It works just like it's supposed to except there's no IOC available now since it's been disconnected. Not a big deal that I don't have IOC but I'm still confused as to what I did wrong.
I'm not really sharp on IOC yet.
Could any of this have anything to do with the 10m or less =/= HL requirement?
Perhaps you were in CL and did not realize it?
And Wirewolf903 beat me posting an answer, so I respectfully agree with his opinion.
BTW, that's Testfly's video. He's missed on this thread...
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Last edited by T J Gilbert; Nov 16, 2012 at 07:09 PM. Reason: Credit goes to Wirewolf903...
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 07:22 PM
Redneck Injuneer
bill34207's Avatar
Bradenton, Florida
Joined Aug 2007
6,016 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirewolf903 View Post
There are some pretty good IOC set up and instructional videos on utube. Heres one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEI84W6BzuE&sns=em
The main issue everyone has with testing the IOC is they do it in the home set location which is too close for the IOC to work properly. Once calibrated fly about 50-100 ft away from your set home position and then try the IOC functions.
I know that guy, that's Troy. He and I used to be in the same flying club here in Manatee county.

What I'm really trying to figure out though, is why mine won't go into a steady hover with the IOC plugged in.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 07:37 PM
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T J Gilbert's Avatar
United States, MS, Ridgeland
Joined Feb 2009
4,446 Posts
TBE Maybe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill34207 View Post
I know that guy, that's Troy. He and I used to be in the same flying club here in Manatee county.

What I'm really trying to figure out though, is why mine won't go into a steady hover with the IOC plugged in.
You might have to consider the IOC being hooked up as a subtle source of TBE.
And don't ask me why, because I don't know. I do know that you changed something...
30 min later:
Been thinking about this... What you changed by activating IOC was the code and active algorithms that are controlling Naza. Some of the parameters and measurements are being dealt with differently. Consequently, you've got to re-tune things like GPS module orientation.
I would think that with all the features you want to use enabled, you probably need to calibrate the compass and test for interference drift (TBE). Why don't you rotate the GPS module slightly CCW?

If you rotate the GPS module, calibrate the compass again.
Did you check the IMU calibration?

Tuning Naza sometimes takes a while if you want spot on performance...
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Last edited by T J Gilbert; Nov 16, 2012 at 08:06 PM. Reason: Added thoughts about effect of IOC activation...
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 08:21 PM
Registered User
Joined May 2012
113 Posts
Tough DJI stuff...........

Well, I had my first crash this afternoon. Shattered one of those DJI props - nothing left on the hub at all. To be fair, I had about 4.5 hours on them with probably some mitigating circumstances which I'll get to in a moment.

Anyway, about 100yds out on FPV, I hear a snap and the F550 does this little wobble, but I seem to still have some control. I get it turned around and headed home, and once overhead I de-goggle to get it down, but it doesn't want to slow down much.

I get stopped past the takeoff point and full aft cyclic won't back it up. In retrospect, I should have probably tried to land it where it came to a stop vs trying to get it back a little closer to me. Still have some control, so I try to just turn around and fly back toward me, but it starts yawing down low so I dump it into a large juniper bush. It ends up in the top with apparently no damage other than the missing prop.

Once seeing the missing prop, I was very impressed the NAZA was able to maintain some control over it. The missing prop was the left front, 11 o'clock prop, which explains why it wouldn't fly in reverse, but like I said the control was there and I would have probably been able to get it down easier and in better shape in a large field.

So, I'm left with a couple of things. That the newer version DJI props with thicker hubs also probably have a short TBO (time between overhaul, or in this case failure). I have inspected them before or after every flight since reading this forum's opinion of them.

The second most obvious change I made to the 550 frame is I removed half of the webbing material in all the arms in a quest to reduce the frame weight. They still feel pretty stiff, but I now wonder if a slight reduction in stiffness allowed something to manifest itself in that arm/motor combo.

I did replace the prop after checking the frame over and hovered a few minutes. The new prop wasn't balanced, but I didn't balance any of them and the 550 flew very smoothly. From a stable and what appeared to be a vibration free hover, with a significant power application, that left front arm would just shake like crazy. You can see and hear the change and GoPro video confirms it. Take the power out and the vibration would go away.

Tomorrow, a motor to motor prop swap to eliminate the prop as the vibration source and then I guess it's new arms all around.

Live and learn. Impressed though with the 550 and NAZA.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 08:35 PM
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san antonio, texas
Joined Mar 2002
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[QUOTE=Glacier51;23288534]Well, I had my first crash this afternoon. Shattered one of those DJI props - nothing left on the hub at all. To be fair, I had about 4.5 hours on them with probably some mitigating circumstances which I'll get to in a moment.

For what it's worth I ordered some 10x4.5 GemFan props from UAV products and plan on using them instead of the stock props. I used them on my 450 without a failure. They are reasonably priced compared to full carbon fiber props and seem to do the job. Maybe someone else can talk about their experiences with these props? The manual also mentions not to overload the craft. With all the equipment some people carry I have wondered about that being a contributing factor in the prop failures.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 08:53 PM
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Joined May 2012
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Skypup:

Yeah, the weight was starting to get to me. I'm at 1925gms full up - NAZA GPS, GoPro with skeleton housing, Immersion video TX, EZOSD, small frame additions to mount the GoPro and a 5000mA bat.

DJI says the F550 can handle 2400gms but I'm at 6300' MSL, so that's hurting me as well.

I have set of APCs T.J. talked me into ready to go after the prop swap tomorrow.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 09:00 PM
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Las Vegas/Lake Tahoe
Joined Feb 2010
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Be careful with the APC's if it is cold where you are flying. I also fly at altitude and below 40 degrees the APC's become brittle and fracture easily.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 09:06 PM
Registered User
san antonio, texas
Joined Mar 2002
1,891 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glacier51 View Post
Skypup:

Yeah, the weight was starting to get to me. I'm at 1925gms full up - NAZA GPS, GoPro with skeleton housing, Immersion video TX, EZOSD, small frame additions to mount the GoPro and a 5000mA bat.

DJI says the F550 can handle 2400gms but I'm at 6300' MSL, so that's hurting me as well.

I have set of APCs T.J. talked me into ready to go after the prop swap tomorrow.
I ran some tests using apc's and some wooden blades when I had the 450. I wish I would have saved the results to share. I balance all of my props and found the wood props gave crisp control but the motors ran hotter, also the apc's. The gemfans worked the best for me. I just went to the mailbox and they were there! I just ordered them a couple of days ago. I also bought the landing gear which they sell. Nice gear. I made my own for my 450.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 02:40 AM
Relax, have a Cub
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College Place, WA.
Joined Apr 2004
953 Posts
Carbon Gemfans

My buddies and I have had excellent results with these props. In manual mode they have stood up to loops and allot of hard quick turns. Just coming into winter months and flying cold, I would use caution with any lightweight slowfly type props. However, I think these carbon gemfans are stronger than the APC and should work fine for just hovering around, but use your own judgement.
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