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Old Oct 08, 2012, 12:43 PM
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T J Gilbert's Avatar
United States, MS, Ridgeland
Joined Feb 2009
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Mike, Try TahoeEd's suggestions...

Go back and start reading at this postcount...
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=5351
I think it will give you some hints.
Programming mixes is an acquired skill that seems to be transmitter specific...

FWIW, I've always used heli mode programming like wazzer.
I prefer it because most heli modes feature 3 FM + TH.
So, you end up with 4 FM, plus you can program throttle curves and fine tune Manual throttle center w.r.t. Atti/GPS throttle center.
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 01:14 PM
I hate waiting for parts
Mike_Then's Avatar
United States, NC, Garner
Joined Apr 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wazzer View Post
Mike

you need to be able to program the failsafe in the RX not the TX

after its lost the signal from the TX its the RX that moves the channels to the presets.
The naza recognizes these presets and engages failsafe

Also

Try setting up your TX in Heli mode using single servo swash and you can use the Pitch channel and flight modes switch to control the Manual Atti and GPS modes and then you can use the Throttle hold position to manually switch in and out of failsafe.

Works a treat on my DX8
Thanks for the reply. I think I'm stuck as far as the failsafe is concerned. I did some more reading and because I'm using a 7-channel receiver, the only adjustable failsafe settings are on channel 3, the throttle channel. The Naza sees the link to the transmitter is gone and correctly sets the throttle to 50%, but I don't think the 7-channel receiver tells the Naza, "Hey man, I'm in failsafe". That's at least what I've read so I think I'm stuck as far as that's concerned. I've never lost a link with this radio, even when out 1+ mile with my other FPV aircraft but it would be nice to have that if possible. Guess I'd have to buy a 10-channel or greater receiver; not sure if I want to do that.

As far as setting it up in heli mode and using the throttle hold, that's a fantastic idea. I'll set up an alternate model in the radio and set it up to see if I can get it to work.

@TJ - thanks for the link. I think I'm stuck with the failsafe as long as I'm using the 7-channel receiver. For Futaba, you have to pick whether you're using a 7-channel (or below) receiver vs. 8 channels (or above). The receiver I have won't bind with the radio if it's not set to 7-channel modulation.
Thanks again!
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 01:39 PM
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T J Gilbert's Avatar
United States, MS, Ridgeland
Joined Feb 2009
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Heli Mode

I think you'll really like heli mode programming once you try it!
You avoid having to fool with mixes, and failsafe is easily switched to no matter what flight mode you're in because it's on throttle hold.

So Futaba receivers w/7Ch or less don't have "preset" failsafes?
As far as JR/Spektrum vs. Futaba features, I can't believe that Futaba has not kept up.
The way they go at it "keeping up with the Joneses" and "one upping" each other it's surprising.
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Last edited by T J Gilbert; Oct 08, 2012 at 01:50 PM.
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 01:49 PM
I hate waiting for parts
Mike_Then's Avatar
United States, NC, Garner
Joined Apr 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T J Gilbert View Post
I think you'll really like heli mode programming once you try it!
You avoid having to fool with mixes, and failsafe is easily switched to no matter what flight mode you're in because it's on throttle hold.

As far as JR/Spektrum vs. Futaba features, I can't believe that Futaba has not kept up.
The way they go at it "keeping up with the Joneses" and "one upping" each other it's surprising.
I tried heli programming and everything was easy but the throttle hold switch does nothing but drop the throttle to 0%. I can't quite figure out how to make it move to failsafe. I guess it will just be easier to go back to airplane mode and remember that I don't have failsafe when it Attitude flight mode, or screw the manual flight mode and set up the bottom portion of the 3-position switch to failsafe. That's probably going to be best because the primary purpose of this quad is FPV and I'll probably never fly it in Manual mode anyway.
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 01:54 PM
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T J Gilbert's Avatar
United States, MS, Ridgeland
Joined Feb 2009
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Throttle Hold

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Then View Post
I tried heli programming and everything was easy but the throttle hold switch does nothing but drop the throttle to 0%. I can't quite figure out how to make it move to failsafe. I guess it will just be easier to go back to airplane mode and remember that I don't have failsafe when it Attitude flight mode, or screw the manual flight mode and set up the bottom portion of the 3-position switch to failsafe. That's probably going to be best because the primary purpose of this quad is FPV and I'll probably never fly it in Manual mode anyway.
Throttle Hold should be adjustable.
Make sure you're not looking at Throttle Cut.
Throttle Hold is for practicing autorotations.
For an autorotation, an RC heli will have adjustable pitch and throttle curves.
Pitch should be adjustable over the entire pitch range.
This allows the pilot to get max neg pitch to speed up the rotor as the heli falls and max pos pitch to use that speed/momentum to get the final last minute lift to stop the heli's fall.
Throttle may just be the lower 25% of the throttle range.
This is because the engine/motor is idled/off while a practice autorotation is performed.
In a real autorotation, there's an actual engine flameout...

And, yes, real helicopter pilots learn/practice autorotations just like real pilots practice stall & spin recovery...
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Last edited by T J Gilbert; Oct 08, 2012 at 02:13 PM. Reason: More throttle hold details...
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 02:04 PM
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Australia, NSW, Mt Hutton
Joined Jul 2007
144 Posts
I can't believe how much timje I wasted trying to sort out the failsafe using a 7 channel futaba
of course my problem was solved once I found out the issue with the reset failsafe only working on channel3
just one of those things where you stare at the screen wondering what is wrong thinking about all the issues it coud be - usual look for the most complicated when its really a simple problem - Futaba
new reciever problem solved - a real DOH moment
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 02:07 PM
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sorry should also add the problem was not just Futaba - MY DUMB also played a big part as it does with most of my issues with this hobby - read crashes
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 02:11 PM
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Tony97's Avatar
Joined May 2004
717 Posts
Anyone seen or heard of a Naza acting up on a fully charged battery but once pack voltage goes down it is fine?

This is the issue I am having. On a fresh 3-cell the quad is not flyable. Wants to roll over. Acts like it is on manual setting with gains at 10. That's how bad it is. You need to hold full forward and right and it still is a bear nit will only fly a few seconds. Does this in manual, ATTI, and GPS.

Now here is the odd part....get the pack voltage down around 12.2 volts and it is rock solid. I have to run motors at low idle to burn down from full charge to 12.2 volts, then go flying. Works great but wastes power. Any ideas?

Check out this video please. It's short.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-R3SPEhXifE

Thanks.
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 02:23 PM
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T J Gilbert's Avatar
United States, MS, Ridgeland
Joined Feb 2009
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Can't watch video!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony97 View Post
Anyone seen or heard of a Naza acting up on a fully charged battery but once pack voltage goes down it is fine?

This is the issue I am having. On a fresh 3-cell the quad is not flyable. Wants to roll over. Acts like it is on manual setting with gains at 10. That's how bad it is. You need to hold full forward and right and it still is a bear nit will only fly a few seconds. Does this in manual, ATTI, and GPS.

Now here is the odd part....get the pack voltage down around 12.2 volts and it is rock solid. I have to run motors at low idle to burn down from full charge to 12.2 volts, then go flying. Works great but wastes power. Any ideas?

Check out this video please. It's short.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-R3SPEhXifE

Thanks.
Even when I log into youtube, I get "private video" notices...
FWIW, are you using voltage protection?
3S or 4S?
Have you calibrated it?
See what happens if you turn it off.
The highly charged 3S may be interpreted to be a low charged 4S or something like that...
I'm only guessing here...
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 03:48 PM
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Australia, QLD, Brisbane
Joined Oct 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kloner View Post
the tbs disco isn't heavy..... and it's got mad range

fully loaded with 28mm motors, full fpv vtx,cam, osd, gopro is 1600 grams and will fly 65 mph for about 7 minutes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtgJrZjzKWg

it is alot more fragille though..... that video is a continuous 60 amp draw
Nice!

is it possible o fly in this velocity in Atti or gps mode or only in manual?
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 04:40 PM
I hate waiting for parts
Mike_Then's Avatar
United States, NC, Garner
Joined Apr 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T J Gilbert View Post
Throttle Hold should be adjustable.
Make sure you're not looking at Throttle Cut.
Throttle Hold is for practicing autorotations.
For an autorotation, an RC heli will have adjustable pitch and throttle curves.
Pitch should be adjustable over the entire pitch range.
This allows the pilot to get max neg pitch to speed up the rotor as the heli falls and max pos pitch to use that speed/momentum to get the final last minute lift to stop the heli's fall.
Throttle may just be the lower 25% of the throttle range.
This is because the engine/motor is idled/off while a practice autorotation is performed.
In a real autorotation, there's an actual engine flameout...

And, yes, real helicopter pilots learn/practice autorotations just like real pilots practice stall & spin recovery...
Hi TJ, thanks for the reply. Yup, I fly helis as well so I'm pretty familiar with the throttle hold function. I started with sport helis and got pretty adept at autorotations with my T-Rex 600e. I really hadn't practiced autos after getting into scale helis so when I bought another T-Rex 600e Pro to make into an FPV ship and THAT project didn't pan out, I decided to keep it for sport flying. I practiced autos a few weeks ago because I realized I hadn't done them in a while. The first one was ugly but successful and the 2nd one came in tail first and I stripped the umbrella tail gears. Oh well could have been worse.

Anyway, I set a 3-position switch to GPS/Attitude/Failsafe and reverted back to airplane mode. I was running out of daylight (and admittedly, patience... I am on vacation after all ) and I just wanted to get it into the air and test-fly. Once I get home I might play around with the heli settings again to see if I can put Failsafe on a dedicated switch.

Speaking of, I got everything hooked up and was pretty surprised at how quickly it locked onto satellites. I flew it in GPS mode the entire time and noticed two things I wanted to ask about:

1. Does wind affect The Position Hold feature? The quad didn't hold position as well as I expected but was wondering if it had something to do with the wind? I don't expect it to hold position within inches but it drifted quite a bit, and wanted to know if I had something adjusted wrong or if it was because of the wind. This is why I didn't test the Failsafe.

2. The gains... when I was flying it I realized I had the right stick completely over to one side and it was barely moving. Again, was wondering if that was because I had the Basic gain and/or Attitude gain too high/low or the wind?

Thanks again everyone!
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 07:51 PM
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Joined May 2004
717 Posts
NAZA Trouble - link fixed - ideas please.

Ok, sorry for the mess-up with the link. I was on vacation and tried to make and post the video to YouTube as well as post on RCG from my darn cell phone. Didnít work out so well. SoÖ.again, here is the issue and link below. Just got home and swapped motors around, same issue.

Anyone seen or heard of a Naza acting up on a fully charged battery but once pack voltage goes down it is fine?

This is the issue I am having. On a fresh 3-cell the quad is not flyable. Wants to roll over. Acts like it is on manual setting with gains at 10. That's how bad it is. You need to hold full forward and right and it still is a bear nit will only fly a few seconds. Does this in manual, ATTI, and GPS.

Now here is the odd part....get the pack voltage down around 12.2 volts and it is rock solid. I have to run motors at low idle to burn down from full charge to 12.2 volts, then go flying. Works great but wastes power. Any ideas?

Check out this video please. It's short.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R3SPEhXifE


Thanks.
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 07:53 PM
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Joined May 2004
717 Posts
Good ideas:
Using 3 cell. Yes calibrated. Yes voltage protection but set for 1st level at 11.1. I can try to turn it off next go around. Green light never goes red like you would think it would if thought was on a 4 cell setting then only detected 12.2 volts. Good ideas....keep them coming.


Quote:
Originally Posted by T J Gilbert View Post
Even when I log into youtube, I get "private video" notices...
FWIW, are you using voltage protection?
3S or 4S?
Have you calibrated it?
See what happens if you turn it off.
The highly charged 3S may be interpreted to be a low charged 4S or something like that...
I'm only guessing here...
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 08:09 PM
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United States, OR, Canby
Joined Oct 2009
461 Posts
Tony97, I had the same thing happen, flew just fine then would roll over on take off, happened twice in two days.

I thought it was because I was rushing pack changes, pull one out then stick another one in quick because it was the end of the day and I was trying to use them up.

I thought I read somewhere Naza needs a little time to wind down and stabilze once plugged it, I dunno now
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 08:22 PM
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T J Gilbert's Avatar
United States, MS, Ridgeland
Joined Feb 2009
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Mike & Wind

Yes, wind will affect position hold.
Is the Naza able to eventually get back to the set position, or is the wind overpowering it?
Either way, you'll need to up the basic gains to compensate.
Probably just pitch and roll.

For when you're flying the airframe (Atti or Man) you may need to up the attitude gains to see if the extreme stick corrections can be reduced.
You may have been in such a strong gale that it took that much stick.
Is your rig stock DJI?
I've never heard anyone needing that much stick to compensate for wind...

Check threads or my blog for gains explanation.
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