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Old Oct 01, 2012, 02:28 PM
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Cobra68's Avatar
United States, WA, Ravensdale
Joined Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glacier51 View Post
Cobra68:
>I also set the failsafe up on a switch on my radio, but put it on the spring loaded trainer switch... this way, you have to continually hold the switch in the on position to keep the copter in the failsafe mode.

I've been under the impression that once triggered, via switch or your button, a switch triggered failsafe is locked in until the pilot takes back control by turning off failsafe AND cycling the GPS/ATT/Man switch.

It sounds like you're saying as long as you hold the button down, the NAZA is in failsafe and if you release the button, you re-gain control, correct?

I have not tried to take control after switched failsafe initiation by only turning off the failsafe switch on my DX8, but I'm gonna look at that next flight.

Ron
Ron,

You're right that you need to cycle out of GPS mode once the failsafe is "activated"... but when I trigger the switch on my transmitter, it takes a second or two (based on how you have the failsafe programmed into your receiver) before the copter will actually enter the failsafe mode. I think I have mine programmed on a 2-second delay... so if I were to accidentally bump the trainer switch, it is only a momentary failsafe signal -- it will send a quick failsafe signal, but not long enough for the NAZA to enter the RTH logic. The way I have mine set up, I have to hold the switch for it to actually enter the failsafe programmed RTH. However, if you are using a 2-position switch, and bump that enough to flip the switch, it will stay in the failsafe mode long enough to activate the RTH feature.

I've only played with it a few times... and really, once I activate the failsafe, it's pretty cool to watch it come back and land, so I've only tried exiting the failsafe one time, and I did have to exit GPS mode (into ATT mode) to re-gain control.

Does that make sense???
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 02:57 PM
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Mike_Then's Avatar
United States, NC, Garner
Joined Apr 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobra68 View Post
Ron,

You're right that you need to cycle out of GPS mode once the failsafe is "activated"... but when I trigger the switch on my transmitter, it takes a second or two (based on how you have the failsafe programmed into your receiver) before the copter will actually enter the failsafe mode. I think I have mine programmed on a 2-second delay... so if I were to accidentally bump the trainer switch, it is only a momentary failsafe signal -- it will send a quick failsafe signal, but not long enough for the NAZA to enter the RTH logic. The way I have mine set up, I have to hold the switch for it to actually enter the failsafe programmed RTH. However, if you are using a 2-position switch, and bump that enough to flip the switch, it will stay in the failsafe mode long enough to activate the RTH feature.

I've only played with it a few times... and really, once I activate the failsafe, it's pretty cool to watch it come back and land, so I've only tried exiting the failsafe one time, and I did have to exit GPS mode (into ATT mode) to re-gain control.

Does that make sense???
Ah okay, so failsafe has to be assigned to a switch? I have a 3-position switch assigned right now... up is Attitude with GPS, middle is Attitude, and down is Manual. Can I assign the failsafe function to another switch or do I have to pick and choose?
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 03:13 PM
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gww528's Avatar
United States, FL, Jacksonville
Joined Mar 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Then View Post
Ah okay, so failsafe has to be assigned to a switch? I have a 3-position switch assigned right now... up is Attitude with GPS, middle is Attitude, and down is Manual. Can I assign the failsafe function to another switch or do I have to pick and choose?
You can choose any switch you want. Just make sure it not one you can easily switch on mistakenly.
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 03:36 PM
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T J Gilbert's Avatar
United States, MS, Ridgeland
Joined Feb 2009
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Use a mix

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Then View Post
Ah okay, so failsafe has to be assigned to a switch? I have a 3-position switch assigned right now... up is Attitude with GPS, middle is Attitude, and down is Manual. Can I assign the failsafe function to another switch or do I have to pick and choose?
Pick a switch (2 pos) and do it with a mix to your FC channel...

You'll see some say that you can trigger it by turning off your transmitter, but that has posed some problems resulting in crashes.
Never a good idea to turn off your transmitter while a bird is aloft...
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Last edited by T J Gilbert; Oct 01, 2012 at 03:53 PM. Reason: Added turning off transmitter comment...
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 03:40 PM
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Cobra68's Avatar
United States, WA, Ravensdale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Then View Post
Ah okay, so failsafe has to be assigned to a switch? I have a 3-position switch assigned right now... up is Attitude with GPS, middle is Attitude, and down is Manual. Can I assign the failsafe function to another switch or do I have to pick and choose?
No... Failsafe does NOT HAVE to be assigned to a switch... but it CAN BE. I set mine up on a switch because I wanted to test it, and to be able to trigger the RTH feature without having to turn my transmitter off...

On my radio (Hitec A9 with XPS transmitter module, using 6-channel XPS Nano receiver), I think I assigned channel 5 of the receiver to my 3-position switch for GPS/ATT/MAN. For the failsafe, I set the trainer switch to output on Channel 5 also, and I think I either used a simple mix where I ran the output value down to a point that triggered the failsafe when the switch was activated, or I set it with the end-point value for that switch -- can't really remember at the moment, but every radio has it's nuances, so you'll have to figure out what works with your setup.

Just make sure that your receiver is programmed for the failsafe also... I set my throttle, aileron, elevator, and rudder all at the mid-point values (1520 microseconds). My receivers have a default setting of "Hold" for all channels... others may use a different default setting... so before you go testing the failsafe, make sure you know what signals the receiver is going to send to the NAZA when the failsafe is triggered. The last thing that you'd want to "learn" is that your receiver sends a Throttle = 0 command when you trigger the failsafe
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Last edited by Cobra68; Oct 01, 2012 at 03:41 PM. Reason: Added text
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 06:16 PM
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Thanks for all of the replies guys. I'll have to whip out the Futaba 10CHG manual and go from there. My Flamewheel 450 flies great without the GPS while I'm getting the feel for it but I want to make sure I know what I'm doing when I install it.
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 06:28 PM
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United States, UT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Then View Post
Thanks for all of the replies guys. I'll have to whip out the Futaba 10CHG manual and go from there. My Flamewheel 450 flies great without the GPS while I'm getting the feel for it but I want to make sure I know what I'm doing when I install it.
With the Futaba you can do one of two things.

You can assign the Man position to Failsafe, by using subtrim on the three position switch,

The problem with this is that if you fly manual, then you would loose that ability.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

or you can set up a condition on a two postition switch,
and in that condition everything stays the same,
but you would assign the three position switch to the failsafe position.

If you do that, then to disengage FS, you would flip the two position switch to condition 1, and cycle the modes from ATTI to GPS via the three position switch.

I would have to experiment with it to get more details, but if you know how to set up a condition, then it should be pretty straight forward.
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 07:15 PM
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Indonesia, Jakarta
Joined Sep 2012
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hi guys, what should i do if my Quad Oscillate or twitching in flight on GPS mode? well it occurs when only strong wind hit the quad. can i make the twitching disappear? should i decrease my atti gain?

thanks
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 07:42 PM
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United States, OH, Cincinnati
Joined Aug 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Then View Post
Thanks for the reply. I plan to mount my FPV antenna facing downwards like others have, as I hope it will minimize interference with the Naza GPS. I installed a T-Rex 500e landing skids on my Flamewheel 450 so that should provide sufficient ground clearance.

I went ahead and rotated the lower plate 90 degrees like yours and redrilled the holes for the heli skids. I do not plan on mounting a gimbal system on mine so this is better for me so I can face the two cameras (600-line FPV and keychain for recording) forward.

I carefully balanced the props with a magnetic balancer. There seems to be a bit of vibration but I will only see how much once I mount the cameras. I've used the foam earplug trick in the past with excellent results so I can simply apply that here if need be.
You will want to balance your motors as well. I was really surprised to see how out of balance the stock DJI motors are. There are a lot of videos on youtube showing how to do this. It's a simple process really. I used a seismometer app on my iphone to get the motors really fine-tuned. You should be able to find a similar app if you have a smartphone with an accelerometer in it. I got the idea from the below video. Just remove your props and test each motor individually by unplugging the others from the Naza. Place your phone on the active motors arm and away you go. I could physically hear a difference in the sound of my F450 when flying after balancing the props and motors. It sounds and flys so much smoother now.

How to use an iPhone app to balance your motors (1 min 46 sec)
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EarthOrbiter View Post
The build with components should work well using a VTX at 5.8 Ghz.
The Immersion osd gps has a better advantage than the NAZA gps rcvr
Only one thing concerns me.
Are those polyethylene props?
If so most other composite props will fly better.
Thanks for the feedback. I definitely plan on getting a set of Graupners in the near future....just have to figure out how to sneak the cost of those as well as an HD camera, landing gear/gimbal, etc, etc past the wife. Anybody interested in buying a slightly used kidney?
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 07:51 PM
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United States, WA, Redmond
Joined Dec 2011
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On the topic of failsafe. I've been wondering how naza knows to go into failsafe when there is loss of signal, if people are programming preset failsafe throttle position above zero? I wouldve assumed it's looking for no pulses for a set time period from that channel.
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 08:00 PM
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T J Gilbert's Avatar
United States, MS, Ridgeland
Joined Feb 2009
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Gains

Quote:
Originally Posted by WonderKing View Post
hi guys, what should i do if my Quad Oscillate or twitching in flight on GPS mode? well it occurs when only strong wind hit the quad. can i make the twitching disappear? should i decrease my atti gain?

thanks
First off...
Basic gains determine how Naza reacts to external forces (wind, gravity, etc).
Attitude gains determine how Naza reacts to your inputs.

So, we need to talk about Basic gains.

Now, say you're in a GPS hover and a gust of wind hits Naza.
You are going to see some reaction (desirable), or Naza will lose position.
What that reaction is will be up to you to decide.
A quick twitch or oscillation may be more desirable than a drift and a slow fight back.
Your Basic gains are going to determine how much of these two extremes you are willing to accept.
If you don't like a twitch, perhaps you'll settle for some drift and return?

FWIW, I've had my Basic gains set so low, it was doubtful that Naza would ever get itself back into position. That wandering can masquerade as TBE.

It will require some experimenting with your particular setup to see what's best.
Good lick...
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 08:08 PM
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labcopilot's Avatar
United States, OH, Cincinnati
Joined Aug 2011
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So, what kind of flight times are people experiencing on their FPV equipped rigs? I noticed a SIGNIFICANT drop in flight time after adding my FPV components. I was getting 12-13 minute flights on 3S 3200mah lipos, however now I'm lucky to get 6 minutes before hitting 3.6 - 3.7 volts per cell. I'm thinking of running my 3S 3200s in parallel, however I'm looking to purchase some new batteries soon as my existing 3S packs are starting to rack up quite a few cycles. My setup is as follows:

F450 w/Naza and GPS
Immersion 5.8Ghz 600mw Vtx w/Cloverleaf antenna
Immersion ezOSD and GPS
RMRC CCD camera
will be adding a GoPro or Liquid Image Ego very soon for HD video capture
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 08:12 PM
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T J Gilbert's Avatar
United States, MS, Ridgeland
Joined Feb 2009
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In The Manual

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cervanchez View Post
On the topic of failsafe. I've been wondering how naza knows to go into failsafe when there is loss of signal, if people are programming preset failsafe throttle position above zero? I wouldve assumed it's looking for no pulses for a set time period from that channel.
See pages 20 & 21 of the Naza Manual.
FWIW, it's any channel.
The way Naza knows is... if the program code fails to see receiver inputs, the algorithms dictate that failsafe is initiated.
It probably allows for a certain number of code cycles before this happens to be sure, but those cycles are milliseconds long.
Or it could be a timed period like you're thinking. That would allow for a brief brownout before all hell breaks loose.
There are several ways to do this.
Since we can't see the code, we can only speculate...
Better believe whatever it is works...

To see some similar, typical codes, visit the Arducopter/Ardupilot forums.
Arducopter's/Ardupilot's code is public (freeware) and can be viewed by anyone interested.
All this stuff is running on Arduino and Processing codes.
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Last edited by T J Gilbert; Oct 01, 2012 at 08:29 PM. Reason: Added example code possibility...
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 08:28 PM
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Cervanchez's Avatar
United States, WA, Redmond
Joined Dec 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T J Gilbert View Post
See pages 20 & 21 of the Naza Manual.
FWIW, it's any channel.
The way Naza knows is... if the program code fails to see receiver inputs, the algorithms dictate that failsafe is initiated.
It probably allows for a certain number of code cycles before this happens to be sure, but those cycles are milliseconds long.
Or it could be a timed period like you're thinking.
There are several ways to do this.
Since we can't see the code, we can only speculate...
Better believe whatever it is works...

To see some similar, typical codes, visit the Arducopter/Ardupilot forums.
Arducopter's/Ardupilot's code is public (freeware) and can be viewed by anyone interested.
All this stuff is running on Arduino and Processing codes.
Ya, I was asking based on my multiwii experience, here's its version of the code:

Failsave settings - added by MIS
Failsafe check pulse on THROTTLE channel. If the pulse is OFF (on only THROTTLE or on all channels) the failsafe procedure is initiated.
After FAILSAVE_DELAY time of pulse absence, the level mode is on (if ACC or nunchuk is avaliable), PITCH, ROLL and YAW is centered
and THROTTLE is set to FAILSAVE_THR0TTLE value. You must set this value to descending about 1m/s or so for best results.
This value is depended from your configuration, AUW and some other params.
Next, afrer FAILSAVE_OFF_DELAY the copter is disarmed, and motors is stopped.
If RC pulse coming back before reached FAILSAVE_OFF_DELAY time, after the small quard time the RC control is returned to normal.
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