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Old Jun 25, 2012, 12:09 PM
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Australia, TAS, Hobart
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Originally Posted by Xnaron View Post
Mine turns around. I think if it is far enough away from home it will turn around.
Thanks guys,

Just wanted to make sure it was doing everything right. I noticed in the last RTH video posted here in this thread it didnt..



I wonder in the next firmware update DJI will let us adjust the height from 20m to whatever we want in RTH mode..
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 12:10 PM
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United Kingdom, South York
Joined Aug 2002
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Even an idiot can get it working

Isn't excitement a perfect remedy for common sense. Finally got my GPS module tested on my 550. I installed it on top, updated the software, spent ages configuring the radio gear to set for failsafe mode. I set failsafe to return to home. I then ran outside to the field behind the house. Started testing it out, it position hold was amazing and it was rock steady in the air.

After a while I plucked up the courage to turn of the transmitter and let it come back to me. After 3 seconds it did as expected and stopped, rose to 20m and started to fly back to me. It then flew straight past me, over the trees and came to a stop smack over the house.... then it started trying to land on my kitchen Panicking I flicked every switch to get it to stop, luckily I managed to stop it just in time. Must remember to reset home every time.

Idiot

On the bright side it works 100%
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 12:17 PM
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United States, OK, Erick
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Originally Posted by T J Gilbert View Post
Got the Naza/GPS flying perfectly Sunday.
The CW rotated GPS module prevented the CCW TBE well.
I left Z axis at measured distance from COG.
Gained experience in ATTI and GPS.
My confidence grew with every flight.
Did a perfect low altitude short distance RTL that looked textbook.
Wind came up as I was trying my first long distance RTL.
The Naza took a long time getting home fighting the wind (10 to 15 mph gusts).
When it got home, it overshot slightly, so I just waited patiently for the slow descent.
A fellow club member reported that it was not coming down.
I decided to switch back to ATTI, and bring the Naza down myself.
That's when all hell broke loose.
I think I made two serious mistakes:
1. I miss-judged how much roll was being applied by GPS to stay in one place in the wind. At 20m it's hard to see if the prop plane is leaning into the wind.
2. I might have switched from Failsafe into Manual thinking I was in ATTI.
Before I gave a slight nudge of the right stick, the Naza was spiraling.
As I tried to gain control, I got disoriented and caused a flip that sent the Naza hard into the pavement.
Result was a broken arm, broken and skint props, and a tacoed lipo.
Everything else survived with minimal scratches.
Got repair parts coming from Robert.
Need to get off the bench and back in the air to see if my theories are correct.
For me, flying from a windy hilltop, care has to be exercised in observing the Naza's reactions to wind when switching flight modes.
ma nthats too bad about the crash. if you co back and look at my hillbilly lol youtube vid and the windsock it was gusting upwards of 22+ acording to my instruments in my airplane i had out earlier, (vario meter) it took the wind wit hease but i was wondering the first time when i did the rth as i was very nervous but held off and let it land , it took the wind great and landed almost in the same spot i took off from, within a foot for sure !!!!! just let the sys do what it saposed to do, i can im super thrilled using this changing over from vye yu tech crap !!!! (fy91q)
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 12:20 PM
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United States, MS, Ridgeland
Joined Feb 2009
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Thanks for the sympathy

Don't worry, you're not the only one who crashed due to ''pilot error''

Mine did the TBE thing while testing rth, while trying to switch back to ''atti'' to cancel the rth I used the wrong 3 pos switch... so was not able to regain control before it crashed in tall weeds

Gonna get myself a lotery ticket, nothing broke, not even a single prop

Now I did rotate the GPS few degrees ccw and no more tbe, rock solid!

*Edit* Still need to eliminate some vibrations, then again the Sony Hx9V is a pain to dial in properly...

"Pilot error" is something I've had to accept throughout my RC career.
The advent of autopilots and drones is what has taken some of that pilot error out of the picture.
Unfortunately, even though these things almost fly themselves, we still get to inject our "pilot error".
What I've got to learn is the preparation steps for transitioning from autopilot back to pilot control in less than calm or desirable conditions.
I think the sequence should be Failsafe -> GPS -> ATTI -> Manual.
Failsafe -> Manual (except for pilots with lightening fast reflexes) is really difficult.
I can fly a CP heli, but I've never flown one with an autopilot and switched said autopilot off in a stiff breeze...
GPS is awesome, and I'm going to master it to enable AP and AV opportunities.
Also, I think the definitive answer to TBE is rotation of the GPS module in the direction opposite the TBE.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 12:24 PM
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United States, OK, Erick
Joined Aug 2011
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on the tbe affect try using kyosho zeal tape on your gps/compas, i did that right from the start only with my compas unit and it is pointing straight fwd and mounted right on top of my r921 rx but on the top plate. never had any tbe,. works as it should .......perfect. did some night flying last night with no leds on, i flew out of the light and into the dark only 2 lights i could see was the vu and the sat rx, flipped the ioc and pulled the stick back to me and this system for me is perfect. i couldnt be more thrilled. setup is on a vc-550 with keda 20-22l motors and plush esc i finally got working correctly bu soldering them direct to the motors. i love it so much im going to pick up one of 2 more for my var. other multis. the fye yu went in the trash this morn lol
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T J Gilbert View Post
[I]Don't worry, you're not the only one who crashed due to ''pilot error''

Mine did the TBE thing while testing rth, while trying to switch back to ''atti'' to cancel the rth I used the wrong 3 pos switch...
Also, I think the definitive answer to TBE is rotation of the GPS module in the direction opposite the TBE.
I had TBE in the early days but didnt rotate my GPS module at all. Just re-calrabated the compass again and all good. 10-15 flights later still all great...
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinBuckley70 View Post
Thanks. I reflashed everything last night. Latest firmware, latest assistant.

I'm trying to figure out:
  • Did I do something wrong (highly possible!)? In which case hopefully some more experienced person will suggest the fix that works
  • Is there some design issue with the GPS (or batch of GPS's)? In which case, hopefully enough people will realise it isn't something THEY are doing wrong, raise the profile of the problem & the manufacturer will find & issue a fix
  • Is my unit broken? In which case I will return it
The thing is - I don't want to spend months mistakenly believing it is option-3 (broken), all the while not able to fly, whilst I have an endless cycle of swapping units with the supplier when in fact it isn't broken & it is one of the other two options (I made an error, or it has a design flaw).
ok one thing i learned when updating the unit when it says to power cycle bla bla bla simply turn off the copter and exit the program and then reboot like you normally would i think this is correct. im still new but i had great help from troy. had me all dialed in within 2 hours. i can even get a sat lock inside my home !!!
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 12:40 PM
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Oxfordshire, UK
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That's interesting ... I didn't do that. I just cycled the quad power - I didn't exit the Assistant. I'll try that, thanks.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 12:49 PM
WHEN IN DOUBT FLOOR IT!!!
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AZ
Joined May 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by himagain View Post
isn't excitement a perfect remedy for common sense. Finally got my gps module tested on my 550. I installed it on top, updated the software, spent ages configuring the radio gear to set for failsafe mode. I set failsafe to return to home. I then ran outside to the field behind the house. Started testing it out, it position hold was amazing and it was rock steady in the air.

After a while i plucked up the courage to turn of the transmitter and let it come back to me. After 3 seconds it did as expected and stopped, rose to 20m and started to fly back to me. It then flew straight past me, over the trees and came to a stop smack over the house.... Then it started trying to land on my kitchen panicking i flicked every switch to get it to stop, luckily i managed to stop it just in time. Must remember to reset home every time.

Idiot

on the bright side it works 100%
lol..
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 12:51 PM
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United States, MS, Ridgeland
Joined Feb 2009
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Many Variables

Quote:
Originally Posted by murzwern View Post
I had TBE in the early days but didnt rotate my GPS module at all. Just re-calrabated the compass again and all good. 10-15 flights later still all great...
I hear your words.
I said "definitive" because more are doing the rotation of the module and seeing results than what worked for you.
Some are changing the Z axis measurement.
All this electronic equipment has shared variables. It's difficult to change just one at a time like most scientists do.
For example... DJI suggests recalibrating your compass after making any changes to your configuration, payload, etc. So, I naturally did it after rotating the GPS module. Now I've compounded the variables.
If TBE comes back on the rebuilt Naza (and I do plan to try to duplicate the set-up of the crashed Naza), perhaps I'll try recalibrating before rotating .
I will be interested in seeing if I get TBE with a CW 10 degree GPS module rotation like I had before with the same components. A little scared not to start out with this offset, but might. Again it's the variables thing...
I'd like to try to get all these basic setting down somewhere to save others from a total rebuild like I'm having to do. (Not that hard with the 450 Flamewheel, but still a lot of component set-up to do.)
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 01:08 PM
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Australia, TAS, Hobart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T J Gilbert View Post
I hear your words.
I said "definitive" because more are doing the rotation of the module and seeing results than what worked for you.
Some are changing the Z axis measurement.
All this electronic equipment has shared variables. It's difficult to change just one at a time like most scientists do.
For example... DJI suggests recalibrating your compass after making any changes to your configuration, payload, etc. So, I naturally did it after rotating the GPS module. Now I've compounded the variables.
If TBE comes back on the rebuilt Naza (and I do plan to try to duplicate the set-up of the crashed Naza), perhaps I'll try recalibrating before rotating .
I will be interested in seeing if I get TBE with a CW 10 degree GPS module rotation like I had before with the same components. A little scared not to start out with this offset, but might. Again it's the variables thing...
I'd like to try to get all these basic setting down somewhere to save others from a total rebuild like I'm having to do. (Not that hard with the 450 Flamewheel, but still a lot of component set-up to do.)
I tried everything above but nothing worked. Just sharing info..
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 01:12 PM
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Try this outside without your phone near the model.
Also remove any camera you have on the model or at least
leave it OFF to see if it is the problem.
Many devices can cause noise and pervent a GPS lock.

Power ON only the model and see what happens.

The flashing green at 55 is normal. It means the Home Point has been saved.



Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinBuckley70 View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxoEzTBQ6iM

The attached video was taken this morning comparing the time to lock of the NAZA GPS on my flamewheel with a GPS monitor on my phone (HTC Desire HD). The location is a village south of Oxford in the UK in my garden which has some tall trees but they are far enough away that I can easily see the sky above 40deg (worst case).

As you can see, the NAZA GPS never achieves a full lock (which would be flashing green only) & mostly reports not locked. It is interesting to note the flashing green sequence at around 55s which I think means the GPS has recorded a 'course lock' position (not sure how, as it hasn't locked GPS at that point - still three red flashes). The phone however, mostly reports that it can see seven satellites & is locked to all of them. It's a shame I didn't notice the blade of grass which almost obscures the satellite lock data, bottom right on the phone!

For the duration of the video, there is a Drift 170 camera mounted on top of the F450 battery (around 2cm below the GPS unit) & it is recording.

Various online sources say that GPS is designed so that typically a user can 'see' between 5 & 8 satellites. After I took that video (&, of course, after I used up the rest of the battery flying!) I drove from my village to London - a journey of around one hour through various types of terrain from tree lined country roads to totally open Motorways which are, in some places, elevated with a clear 360deg view. Using that same GPS Monitor program, throughout the journey, mostly there were just 5 satellites above 30deg elevation. Never less than 4 & never more than 6.

Typically, throughout that journey, the phone GPS maintained a lock on 7 satellites. Never less than 5 & never more than 9. But by far the number locked was 7 (so 5 above 30deg elevation & the rest below typically).

So I guess my two questions would be:
  • Why is the lock requirement from NAZA set so high: "not fly in GPS Mode when the signal is good (red light blinks)!"; i.e at least 7 satellites. I think a more typical/realistic 'good' situation would be 5 satellites (the minimum possible is 4)
  • Why does the NAZA GPS refuse to acknowledge more than four satellites visible when a run-of-the-mill phone GPS at the same location is locking to seven?
I routinely ride my mountain bike through dense woodland, often in the rain (so the tree foliage is soaked), & the on-bike Garmin almost NEVER loses lock.

Good, cheap, DSP-based GPS receivers are a problem which was solved a long time ago so it's not clear to me why so many people, including myself, seem to be having issues with this one. The GPS on my phone will even lock inside my first floor bedroom, which has a plaster ceiling & roof tiles in the way (I tried it last night)!

Does anyone have any more data to add to this? Any GPS specialists out there?
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 01:26 PM
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Detailed info on Failsafe setup

Quote:
Originally Posted by flitelab View Post
Don't believe that Rx supports failsafe on all channels, only throttle.
Correct:
One needs to have 2 things happen when the model enters failsafe.
As a rule failsafe will lower the throttle. (If it is setup the right way)
Next in order for the RTH to work in failsafe. The failsafe has to be activated.

SMART Failsafe allows more than one channel to be pre-set for failsafe.

So when you enter failsafe the throttle needs to move above 10% (not to 0%)
and failsafe has to be triggered in the Naza.
This is all done by Smart binding.
You move the throttle above 10% and you flip a switch (or move settings to trigger failsafe in the Naza software) Then you SMART BIND the RX,
Note: If you moved settings to setup failsafe for Smart binding. Move them back after binding.

You can then test your setup using the Naza software.

I am happy to cover this in a video if requested.

HTH,
Troy
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 01:27 PM
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United States, OK, Erick
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but did it not go back to flashing red red red green ? was wondering as i too has this issue lastnight at 4am and it finally went out. one more thing.......if i may, does it matter in which fc mode im in when i pwr on the model?
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 01:34 PM
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efether's Avatar
Atlanta, GA
Joined Aug 2007
499 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by testfly View Post
Correct:
One needs to have 2 things happen when the model enters failsafe.
As a rule failsafe will lower the throttle. (If it is setup the right way)
Next in order for the RTH to work in failsafe. The failsafe has to be activated.

SMART Failsafe allows more than one channel to be pre-set for failsafe.

...snip...

I am happy to cover this in a video if requested.
Requested!
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