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Old Jun 04, 2012, 04:50 PM
Cat Rack
MtnGoat's Avatar
Lyle, WA
Joined Dec 2000
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Obama proposes distorting solar panel market even more

With a 31% tariff on imported panels. That way, imported panels can cost consumers 31% more than they should, and he can create a protected class of industry in the US unable to compete at world prices.

I'm sure it's 'only till they get on their feet'. Really? Will they be required to then pay back consumers on the time value of the extra money consumbers paid while they were 'getting on their feet'? I'm thinking the price difference plus interest on all domestically manufactured panels, since they are receiving this subsidy they should pay back everyone paying it.

Quote:
The Obama administration, still smarting from controversial investments in solar power firms like the now bankrupt Solyndra, has sparked fears of a trade war between the U.S. and China, as the Commerce Department signals it will likely slap a 31 percent tariff on all solar panel imports from China.
Our Central Industrial Planners at work...they did so well with Solyndra
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 05:00 PM
Alarm Bells Continuing!
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Arizona
Joined Oct 2001
276 Posts
This is one way venture capitalist Obama can improve the odds of his handpicked green companies surviving until he's re-elected. Having so many go belly-up under his watch must be troubling to him on how it reflects on him, as its always about him.

I seem to recall another tariff in a recession that lead to really bad things happening - the Smoot-Hawley Tariff.
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 05:51 PM
Expo/DualRates = Lack of Skill
typeRA's Avatar
San Diego, CA
Joined Mar 2009
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Originally Posted by Big Foot 48 View Post
I seem to recall another tariff in a recession that lead to really bad things happening - the Smoot-Hawley Tariff.
Boring Economics Teacher (1 min 13 sec)
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 05:58 PM
Kraut
Dolores, Colorado
Joined Dec 2007
1,590 Posts
About time, China has been working with dumping prieces, especialy in the Solar Panel production, to break competition and controll the market.
It is a National Policy in China to gain absolut control of the market and billions are spent to undercut competition with dumping prieces.

I like it.
I have 1 million BTU solar hot water for my company, I made sure that everything was Made in the USA, payed 15% more, but it is a matter of pride.

Obama should have a nice list, every product made in China or were else, that has dumping prieces, or which seemed to be prieced unfair or has the the smell of dumping, nail it with a tarif.
Any US- Product that has a tarif in a foreign country, should be countered wit a tarif for the same product from that country.
Fair trade

Kinde strange that people who are normaly oh so patriotic slam a President who protects American Companies and Workers against foreign invasion, that is what dumping prieces mean, an invasion.
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 05:59 PM
FrankC
Ocala, Florida
Joined Jun 2007
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We do need to consider that the government of China, along with other governments, subsidize products that are then sold in the US at prices that the US companies cannot compete with. I for one am fed up with this concept of a "level playing field" that does nothing but put us at a huge disadvantage, puts Americans out of work, and contributes to massive trade imbalances.
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 05:59 PM
Registered User
College Park, MD
Joined Sep 2002
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Are there any unfair trade practices the right will oppose?

Quote:
Solar World and others have seen their market share plummet as sales of inexpensive Chinese panels have skyrocketed. The Commerce Department found Chinese companies are guilty of dumping panels on average 31 percent below fair market value.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...#ixzz1wreYHxTd
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 06:08 PM
Cat Rack
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Lyle, WA
Joined Dec 2000
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Originally Posted by FrankC View Post
We do need to consider that the government of China, along with other governments, subsidize products that are then sold in the US at prices that the US companies cannot compete with. I for one am fed up with this concept of a "level playing field" that does nothing but put us at a huge disadvantage, puts Americans out of work, and contributes to massive trade imbalances.
Trade 'imbalance'? We get actual capital goods and they get money they're helping devalue. And they're subsidizing building up solar infrastructure for those who want it. At the end, we have the solar panels, they have money worth less and less.

How is getting more actual goods at lower prices for nearly everyone something to be upset about? This is the best deal ever.

Americans are not chained to one particular job, nor should they be. Markets are dynamic...when work dries up in one place there is capital freed up for work in another.

You know what else puts Americans out of work? Protectionism, that's what. It puts everyone at risk selling and using those cheaper goods. What is being demanded here, once again, is the power to play favorites instead of letting the market float with whatever the Chinese suppliers are stupid enough to do...like sell at a loss.

Why aren't the Americans who lose jobs due to protectionism counting for the same consideration as those who supposedly lose jobs in manufacturing?
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 06:10 PM
Cat Rack
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Lyle, WA
Joined Dec 2000
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Originally Posted by thunder1 View Post
Are there any unfair trade practices the right will oppose?
Not in this instance, no. Selling at a loss is selling at a loss. Great to be the buyer.

Should they try to raise the prices later, then production elsewhere in competition becomes economical. This provides a natural market ceiling on price increases should they try to then jack up the price.
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 06:12 PM
Not THAT Ira
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Coupeville, Wa
Joined Jan 2006
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I suspect this has a lot more to do with the existing energy lobbies not wanting inexpensive solar panels popping up everywhere than anything else.
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 06:15 PM
Registered User
College Park, MD
Joined Sep 2002
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Originally Posted by MtnGoat View Post
Not in this instance, no. Selling at a loss is selling at a loss. Great to be the buyer.

Should they try to raise the prices later, then production elsewhere in competition becomes economical. This provides a natural market ceiling on price increases should they try to then jack up the price.
But that's not what's happening. The government is making subsidy payments to make up those losses. By allowing the unregulated sales of such goods, you are allowing a government to artificially prop up their own manufacturing sector, while shutting down those in the export countries, all at the expense of the their own taxpayers, and our workers.
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 06:19 PM
Figure Nine Champ
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North Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunder1 View Post
But that's not what's happening. The government is making subsidy payments to make up those losses. By allowing the unregulated sales of such goods, you are allowing a government to artificially prop up their own manufacturing sector, while shutting down those in the export countries, all at the expense of the their own taxpayers, and our workers.
Just like a tariff would.
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 06:22 PM
Cat Rack
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Lyle, WA
Joined Dec 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunder1 View Post
But that's not what's happening. The government is making subsidy payments to make up those losses. By allowing the unregulated sales of such goods, you are allowing a government to artificially prop up their own manufacturing sector, while shutting down those in the export countries, all at the expense of the their own taxpayers, and our workers.
They are subsidizing us by choice and you are proposing to do economic harm to far more people than your favoritism will aid.

How many people do you think solar panel companies would actually employ compared to the number of people who purchase, import, and sell them here in the US?

Why don't you count the workers you are proposing to harm with tariffs in the US?
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 06:23 PM
Cat Rack
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Lyle, WA
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Originally Posted by madsci_guy View Post
just like a tariff would.
doh.

As you see it never ends with interventionists. Arguing against artificiality while demanding it. China is using real wealth up and providing us with capital equipment at a loss. That is an incredible benefit to us at far less expenditure than it should cost.
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 06:26 PM
Registered User
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Originally Posted by madsci_guy View Post
Just like a tariff would.
In response to the unfair trade practices, of course.
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 06:33 PM
Figure Nine Champ
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North Texas
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Originally Posted by thunder1 View Post
In response to the unfair trade practices, of course.
Unfair to who? Not the consumer. Companies like Solyndra would not have benefited from a tariff, anymore than they benefited from an outright gift.
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