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Old Feb 03, 2013, 08:11 AM
Brent 黑雁
BThirsk's Avatar
Canada, AB, Ponoka
Joined Jan 2012
1,765 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xermalk View Post
Hrm, is there a metal swash upgrade for the master?
Id love to get rid of the slop i have in mine, its producing some wierd behavior when i fly with Alzrc blades because of the faster blade response (it does small twitches in the air, whenever the load direction on the swash is changed).
With the stock blades its nowhere near because of the heavier blades and slower response, but its still present.

Then again i might just go for a proper 450 kit for the summer instead, would need a new tx for that though :<.
Did you adjust gyro gain pot after installing the new blades. Lighter blades may require more gain.
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 09:53 AM
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gapi's Avatar
North Georgia
Joined Oct 2010
412 Posts
Quote:
Fixed ID is not working for me ever since I installed my 5055s
The fixed ID thing for the 5055's & Master CP may be able to be overcame.

Does the Aileron port on the Master CP RX double for a fixed ID clearing port?

The V400D02 Heli with a 5055 connected to the Aileron port would not bind "period". We had to remove it, bind, reinstall and fly. Every time the TX was powered down or the battery disconnected.

I tested the 5055's in a Master CP for binding and it was OK but did not test for the fixed ID function.

What we found was the 5055 is unique to a few other mfg servos tested in having 2.15v on the signal wire when connected to the powered up RX2614v-D.
The other tested servos had 0.0v
We disconnected the signal wire from the plug and plugged in the servo then measured for voltage across the (-) & disconnected signal wire. 2.15v was found.
We believe the RX was thinking its time to clear the Fixed ID, not time to bind.
We found bridging a 4.7khom resistor from the (-) to Signal terminal did the trick with no ill effects.

See my Blog for pics of our fix.

I cut the ends of the resistor at an angle in an attempt to make a pointed end.
I opened up the area between the plug's wall and the signal & (-) wire's terminals with a long and narrow very sharp pointed needle, and with needle nose pliers pushed the resistor pin in the void before it closed back up. Hot melt glue is now in there but it was pretty tight anyways.

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Old Feb 03, 2013, 10:15 AM
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United Kingdom, Scotland, Edinburgh
Joined Jan 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BThirsk View Post
The TX gyro setting is only used to set the tail gyro function as well as turning off the ELV/AIL gyro when at 50% or lower.
I haven't seen this bit of information before
- where did you see it?

Does it completely turn off the ELV/AIL gyro, or just mean it does to 3-axis mode, not 6-axis mode?
- What is the Tail gyro doing at this point?

Thanks!
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 10:26 AM
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gapi's Avatar
North Georgia
Joined Oct 2010
412 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmartin View Post
I haven't seen this bit of information before
- where did you see it?

Does it completely turn off the ELV/AIL gyro, or just mean it does to 3-axis mode, not 6-axis mode?
- What is the Tail gyro doing at this point?

Thanks!
I recently purchased the 5055's before I knew about the V400D02 binding issue.
So I went after the issue tooth and nail and got help from a kind member of Deviation forums.

It has no other effect but to blind the RX from the 2.1v on the signal wire at startup. The Aileron works fine. It does not turn off the ELV/AIL.
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 10:26 AM
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Sweden, Helsingborg
Joined Jun 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmartin View Post
I haven't seen this bit of information before
- where did you see it?

Does it completely turn off the ELV/AIL gyro, or just mean it does to 3-axis mode, not 6-axis mode?
- What is the Tail gyro doing at this point?

Thanks!
Below 50% in the tx gyro setting will completely disable all gyros on the heli. This goes for all walkera helicopters.

It's for when one is setting up the helicopters on the workbench.
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 04:13 PM
Brent 黑雁
BThirsk's Avatar
Canada, AB, Ponoka
Joined Jan 2012
1,765 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmartin View Post
I haven't seen this bit of information before
- where did you see it?

Does it completely turn off the ELV/AIL gyro, or just mean it does to 3-axis mode, not 6-axis mode?
- What is the Tail gyro doing at this point?

Thanks!
Page 9 of the manual. As Xermalk stated, pretty much all walkeras as set up this way. I think the V120D02S and the V400D02 are the only ones with a dip switch to turn off the gyro. Everything lately does it by the gain setting.
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 05:12 PM
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France, Alsace, Strasbourg
Joined Jun 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BThirsk View Post
Page 9 of the manual. As Xermalk stated, pretty much all walkeras as set up this way. I think the V120D02S and the V400D02 are the only ones with a dip switch to turn off the gyro. Everything lately does it by the gain setting.
V450D03 has also a WK<>ADJ switch

Roland
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 05:28 PM
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Sweden, Helsingborg
Joined Jun 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BThirsk View Post
Did you adjust gyro gain pot after installing the new blades. Lighter blades may require more gain.
From how it acts its most likely less gyro gain, as it looks like its the slop thats causing the helicopter to act strangely. It twitches/wobbles in the air.

And its not from vibrations, as the light blades actually seem to have less vibes then my night blades and those fly just fine.

Ill see if i can get a video of it the next time the weather allows for some air time. With some luck the weather should be decent enough on tuesday. Right now its subzero and 15 m/s, with rain later.
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 05:38 PM
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Joined Nov 2012
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twitching, spasming servos

Quote:
Originally Posted by BThirsk View Post
The TX gyro setting is only used to set the tail gyro function as well as turning off the ELV/AIL gyro when at 50% or lower. The pot on the RX is where you set servo gain. Try adjusting that.
@BThirsk, thanks for this info and also the rest who added on about the Tx gyro setting.

I've tried adjusting the servo gains on my Rx to see if the servo twitching will stop, but that didn't work. All 3 pots on the Rx were adjusted both ways, but again, as I tilt and level my Master CP by hand with the throttle stick at mid, I still get that same spasm the gyro sort of tells the servos to center up, but they twitch their way back to neutral. It's basically unflyable right now, as you might expect a twitching helicopter would (or wouldn't).

What's curious is this twitching takes time, about 3-4 seconds of twitching before it sort of reaches it's intended point, instead of the half sec it would probably take normally for the swashplate to center. Adding cyclic makes the twitching even more pronounced, seeing that the servo horns have more 'distance' to travel.

All 3 servos are twitching, not just 1 or 2. I plugged them into my Hitec HFP-21 for a test, and they all still behaved normally.

I'm just guessing that the gyro in my Rx is toast, or something else in the Rx is gone. Either way it looks like I have to get a replacement...

@gapi, pretty interesting mod you have, I will have to try that out after I get these spasms out of my heli.
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 06:32 PM
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United States, CT, Hamden
Joined Jul 2011
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chuank, my mcp twitches just as you describe it. 2 of the three servos. And the servos twitch their way back to center on the bench. It didn't do it new, only after a few cashes and servo replacements. I've flown it like that and it did ok. No inverts, just sport flying.
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 08:07 PM
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Canada, ON, Ottawa
Joined Jun 2009
3,228 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BThirsk View Post
I can't confirm what the differences are, but I am positive they are not the same.
I have signal converters for both helis and they are different and the difference is the throttle output signal. Several tried the converter from the V400 on the master and had throttle range issues.
The issue is still under investigation. I have 2 V400D02s, I put the master CP Rx on one, it obviously has a lot less head speed than the other with the original RX. So far I had put new main gear, swapped the main motors and the ESCs.. The one with the master CP RX still has less head speed. It is either the RX or the head left in the equation.

I could not swap the entire frame easily as the 2 RXs require servos turning in opposit directions, but I did not notice anything wrong with the head. When I took the motors off, both heads free rotated for a long long time when I spinned the main rotors by hand. They came to stop about the same time.

It looks like it is the RX itself making the difference. It make sense if you found that you require 2 different signalling converters.

My next step would be putting a scope on the throttle channel to see what is going on..

Strange. I could not believe Walkera actually does that.

Thanks.
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 09:17 PM
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North Georgia
Joined Oct 2010
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Curious, I have heard the Master CP RX on the V400 is a drop in without the head speed issue. And the added Gyro Axis's makes it more stable.

I'll check my source and have them confirm and get back.

Did you try the swap in fresh models in your TX?
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 09:54 PM
Brent 黑雁
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Canada, AB, Ponoka
Joined Jan 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wasp09 View Post
The issue is still under investigation. I have 2 V400D02s, I put the master CP Rx on one, it obviously has a lot less head speed than the other with the original RX. So far I had put new main gear, swapped the main motors and the ESCs.. The one with the master CP RX still has less head speed. It is either the RX or the head left in the equation.

I could not swap the entire frame easily as the 2 RXs require servos turning in opposit directions, but I did not notice anything wrong with the head. When I took the motors off, both heads free rotated for a long long time when I spinned the main rotors by hand. They came to stop about the same time.

It looks like it is the RX itself making the difference. It make sense if you found that you require 2 different signalling converters.

My next step would be putting a scope on the throttle channel to see what is going on..

Strange. I could not believe Walkera actually does that.

Thanks.
Yes, it appears they do. One of the guys who has a MiniCP and a SuperCP has issues with the same brushless comversion that works on the mini but not on the super due to signal pulses on the super. He's still testing so there is no concrete conclusion yet.
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 10:10 PM
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Joined Jun 2009
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Gapi,

On the scope the throttle output on the master CP RX is 2ms cycle time. While on my original V400D02 RX (2614V non-devo) is 1ms. Apparently my ESC's do not handle the difference well.

I may open one of them up to check why it does not like the longer cycle time. I always thought it was dumb MOSFETs inside, perhaps not.

Or could it be current sourcing on the new RX output is weaker and not cycle time making the differene?

My V400D02's are the earliest version. If yours works, perhaps Walkera ships a different ESC that can work with both now. Or if you have good batteries, you may use a very high pitch to compensate for the lack of head speed. However my batteries are simply too weak to sustain that torque.

BTW, the gyro correction on the RX is wrong since the servo layout has changed. TX configuration could not change that I suppose. It is not a drop in. It may work moving the front servo to the other side and turn the RX 180 degree. I thought I had to mod only one servo but ended up mod'ing all three without moving the servos. There is no pitch reversal switch on the master CP RX.

The master CP RX would allow me to use my Devo TX otherwise I could only use my 2603TX. It has not quite worked out yet.
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Last edited by Wasp09; Feb 03, 2013 at 10:30 PM.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 02:03 AM
Team WarpSquad
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
2,971 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuank View Post
...

.... twitching and servo spasms....

...
Have you tried a big fat separate BEC on there instead of the built in one? It might be an overloading issue? servo links are tight?
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